George Floyd (2 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

I lived a few streets away from where Lee Rigby was murdered at the time. The whole area was very sombre for a while and the whole community completely came together in condemnation until I think the Sunday 4 days later when the EDL turned up, had a march and smashed up the square. The racists fuckwits have never had a problem with using him to further their own agenda.

Loads of people in Bristol heading to a BLM demonstration today.

Members of the local community received death threats from right wing morons over the unofficial memorial that the family didn’t want. There’s an official memorial in line with the regiments tradition and the families wishes but certain right wing elements wanted to trample on this.

 

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[skybluetony176]

1) he wasn't pm
2) it was 2002
3) taken out of context and actually a dig at Blair
4) has a record of fighting for rights of BAME and gay before you bring up tank top bumboys
5) has fk all to do with racist American police or the death of George Floyd
6) the guy was killed in the street like an animal by a racist fk, so can everyone please stoo saying leftie snowflake and right-wing bigot to score cheap points as uk politics have fk all to do with this.

Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn had have had historically said similar things.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Members of the local community received death threats from right wing morons over the unofficial memorial that the family didn’t want. There’s an official memorial in line with the regiments tradition and the families wishes but the right wing wanted to trample on this.

Certain extreme right wing*

By no means all.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

1) he wasn't pm
2) it was 2002
3) taken out of context and actually a dig at Blair
4) has a record of fighting for rights of BAME and gay before you bring up tank top bumboys
5) has fk all to do with racist American police or the death of George Floyd
6) the guy was killed in the street like an animal by a racist fk, so can everyone please stoo saying leftie snowflake and right-wing bigot to score cheap points as uk politics have fk all to do with this.

point proved.

 

[rob9872]

Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn had have had historically said similar things.

Do fk off Tony, plenty of other shitty threads for this crap that I avoid daily

 

[skybluetony176]

Certain extreme right wing*

By no means all.

Quite right. Corrected. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Grendel]

point proved.

Indeed it is

 

[Grendel]

The one where I asked where the stats were from? Yes, as I started to Google them instead.

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So was the Coventrian correct or not?

 

[Grendel]

“So the question is why are black people more likely to be arrested”

Are you serious?

Oddly as black people as a percentage commit mire crimes - it’s not difficult

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Oddly as black people as a percentage commit mire crimes - it’s not difficult

If you’re now attempting to divert away by suggesting that black people are simply just more genetically predisposed to criminality than other races then there’s not really much more that can be said, no wonder we are where we are.

 

[stupot07]

If you’re now attempting to divert away by suggesting that black people are simply just more genetically predisposed to criminality than other races then there’s not really much more that can be said, no wonder we are where we are.

Stuff I've just read is that poverty and inequality has the strongest link to crime and violent crime in the US, despite ethnicity or age. It just so happens that theres a much higher % of BAME that live in poverty and inequality.

This has nothing to do with genetics.

Plus the american justice system is one of the most corrupt in the world, and when you have institutional racism it's a self fulfilling prophecy.


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[Ring Of Steel]

Stuff I've just read is that poverty and inequality has the strongest link to crime and violent crime in the US, despite ethnicity or age. It just so happens that theres a much higher % of BAME that live in poverty and inequality.

This has nothing to do with genetics.

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Course it doesn’t, you are right & I highly suspect everyone knows it.

 

[skybluetony176]

Oddly as black people as a percentage commit mire crimes - it’s not difficult

Stuff I've just read is that poverty and inequality has the strongest link to crime and violent crime in the US, despite ethnicity or age. It just so happens that theres a much higher % of BAME that live in poverty and inequality.

This has nothing to do with genetics.

Plus the american justice system is one of the most corrupt in the world, and when you have institutional racism it's a self fulfilling prophecy.


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[Grendel]

If you’re now attempting to divert away by suggesting that black people are simply just more genetically predisposed to criminality than other races then there’s not really much more that can be said, no wonder we are where we are.

No I’m not saying that at all - Im quoting a stats which are beyond dispute

 

[Ring Of Steel]

No I’m not saying that at all - Im quoting a stats which are beyond dispute

yes I know, however I also know you’re not stupid enough to believe they tell the whole story.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

yes I know, however I also know you’re not stupid enough to believe they tell the whole story.

Tbf I suspect Grendel would agree with the principle that there's a social inequality that causes different life chances. We may have different views on how to solve it, but I suspect he's on 'our' side on the initial premise.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Oddly as black people as a percentage commit mire crimes - it’s not difficult

In which case ask yourself why do they proportionally commit more crimes.

Here's a clue. poor people are more likely to commit crimes than affluent people. Black people have a much harder time attaining said wealth due to it being harder for them to be accepted into good education and higher paid jobs and so are far more likely to be poor.

 

[Grendel]

Stuff I've just read is that poverty and inequality has the strongest link to crime and violent crime in the US, despite ethnicity or age. It just so happens that theres a much higher % of BAME that live in poverty and inequality.

This has nothing to do with genetics.

Plus the american justice system is one of the most corrupt in the world, and when you have institutional racism it's a self fulfilling prophecy.


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Do you have evidence regarding most corrupt in the world? There are over 200 countries in the world

So are you saying people have been framed ? That’s a hell of an accusation without any evidence.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Tbf I suspect Grendel would agree with the principle that there's a social inequality that causes different life chances. We may have different views on how to solve it, but I suspect he's on 'our' side on the initial premise.

yes I agree, however I maintain that not calling it out and condemning where it’s needed is a huge part of the issue, that’s my point here.

 

[Grendel]

Tbf I suspect Grendel would agree with the principle that there's a social inequality that causes different life chances. We may have different views on how to solve it, but I suspect he's on 'our' side on the initial premise.

My issue is on the manipulation of statistics.

52% of homicides in the US occur from 13% of the population. It’s the conclusion you draw from that fact that is the relevance

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Do you have evidence regarding most corrupt in the world? There are over 200 countries in the world

So are you saying people have been framed ? That’s a hell of an accusation without any evidence.

It's well known that innocent people (esp black and uneducated) are often given legal advice to accept a plea deal and a reduced sentence because:
a. They're often too poor to afford independent legal advice and so end up with a state appointed defence lawyer who are pushed by DA's to put that forward as the option so they get a 'case solved' in their stats.
b. Due to racial discrimination they're far more likely to be found guilty regardless if they go to court.

Some of these are minor offences but end up having a massive detriment to their ability to get work, credit etc.But some innocent people have been executed for murders they didn't commit and police have fabricated evidence - have you seen the video from the riots of the police forcing a weapon into an unarmed person's hand to get their prints on it to give them 'just cause'? Often used in cases - obviously some will be lying but that video proves it does happen.

Then when you add on the disproportionate number of black people stopped/arrested due to racial profiling you can see why it's a big problem.

 

[Ian1779]

So was the Coventrian correct or not?

No he wasn’t about his opening statement about the crime sheet of George Floyd

 

[clint van damme]

Do you have evidence regarding most corrupt in the world? There are over 200 countries in the world

So are you saying people have been framed ? That’s a hell of an accusation without any evidence.

most corrupt in the world? Who knows?
But their judicial system is deeply flawed, very corrupt and heavily weighted to discriminate against young black males.
Joe Biden played a big part in making it so, if he gets in lets hope he rights some of his wrongs.

 

[Grendel]

It's well known that innocent people (esp black and uneducated) are often given legal advice to accept a plea deal and a reduced sentence because:
a. They're often too poor to afford independent legal advice and so end up with a state appointed defence lawyer who are pushed by DA's to put that forward as the option so they get a 'case solved' in their stats.
b. Due to racial discrimination they're far more likely to be found guilty regardless if they go to court.

Some of these are minor offences but end up having a massive detriment to their ability to get work, credit etc.But some innocent people have been executed for murders they didn't commit and police have fabricated evidence - have you seen the video from the riots of the police forcing a weapon into an unarmed person's hand to get their prints on it to give them 'just cause'? Often used in cases - obviously some will be lying but that video proves it does happen.

Then when you add on the disproportionate number of black people stopped/arrested due to racial profiling you can see why it's a big problem.

Anecdotal with zero evidence and again missing the obvious point

 

[Ian1779]

In which case ask yourself why do they proportionally commit more crimes.

Here's a clue. poor people are more likely to commit crimes than affluent people.

Poor people are more likely to be caught and prosecuted for petty crime. The state has long turned a blind eye to the crimes of the affluent.

 

[Grendel]

most corrupt in the world? Who knows?
But their judicial system is deeply flawed, very corrupt and heavily weighted to discriminate against young black males.
Joe Biden played a big part in making it so, if he gets in lets hope he rights some of his wrongs.

Where is your evidence?

 

[Ian1779]

My issue is on the manipulation of statistics.

52% of homicides in the US occur from 13% of the population. It’s the conclusion you draw from that fact that is the relevance

That is of course those that are charged and sentenced... if you want to talk about statistical manipulation.

 

[Grendel]

Poor people are more likely to be caught and prosecuted for petty crime. The state has long turned a blind eye to the crimes of the affluent.

Evidence please

 

[Ian1779]

Evidence please

White collar crime as an example - is that something rife in the poorer communities?

 

[skybluetony176]

It's well known that innocent people (esp black and uneducated) are often given legal advice to accept a plea deal and a reduced sentence because:
a. They're often too poor to afford independent legal advice and so end up with a state appointed defence lawyer who are pushed by DA's to put that forward as the option so they get a 'case solved' in their stats.
b. Due to racial discrimination they're far more likely to be found guilty regardless if they go to court.

Some of these are minor offences but end up having a massive detriment to their ability to get work, credit etc.But some innocent people have been executed for murders they didn't commit and police have fabricated evidence - have you seen the video from the riots of the police forcing a weapon into an unarmed person's hand to get their prints on it to give them 'just cause'? Often used in cases - obviously some will be lying but that video proves it does happen.

Then when you add on the disproportionate number of black people stopped/arrested due to racial profiling you can see why it's a big problem.

Doesn’t the US have one of the highest incarceration levels in the world?
(edit) just checked, it does indeed have the highest in the world. #landofthefree

 

[clint van damme]

Where is your evidence?

there's absolutely loads out there, I'm not going to spend my Sunday digging it up because I can't be arsed. A good starting point would be the documentary the house we live in if you can track it down.
Or just look into how a black teenager with a small amount of cannabis is treated in States where its illegal compared to a white teenager caught with cocaine.
Or go to the website of the US version of LEAP (law enforcement against prohibition), to see how it works. I can't recall what they're called. I don't think it's LEAP US though.

 

[Grendel]

That is of course those that are charged and sentenced... if you want to talk about statistical manipulation.

I would appreciate a link to your statistics

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Evidence please

There are copious amounts of stats which show the U.K. to have the worst handling of the coronavirus in the world- also stats on how Boris is losing support fast, there you just ignore and/or reject. Yet here all of a sudden you’re all about the stats? Tribalism is now more important than values, all part of the problem.

 

[Grendel]

There are copious amounts of stats which show the U.K. to have the worst handling of the coronavirus in the world- also stats on how Boris is losing support fast, there you just ignore and/or reject. Yet here all of a sudden you’re all about the stats? Tribalism is now more important than values, all part of the problem.

You are proving my point you honestly are S gift that keeps giving

 

[skybluetony176]

there's absolutely loads out there, I'm not going to spend my Sunday digging it up because I can't be arsed. A good starting point would be the documentary the house we live in if you can track it down.
Or just look into how a black teenager with a small amount of cannabis is treated in States where its illegal compared to a white teenager caught with cocaine.
Or go to the website of the US version of LEAP (law enforcement against prohibition), to see how it works. I can't recall what they're called. I don't think it's LEAP US though.

Even on a lesser scale look how much money and resources our government puts into chasing the minority of unpaid tax compared to the majority of off unpaid tax which comes from a lesser number. In essence the government spends something like 80% of its funding chasing 20% of unpaid tax yet allows large scale tax fraud from a minority of powerful individuals and corporations of the hook.