While we are on it let’s also discuss the absurdity of no platforming
I would pretty much guarantee this concept would be endorsed if Nick Griffin posted on this forum
Griffin rose to prominence because of the dumb EU elections and there was outrage when he appeared on Question Time
The appearance sent him and his party into oblivion. He looked strange, he stuttered he was flustered as he’d never had to face the public - the end for him
It’s also a mistake made with Ireland. The dumbing of voices and censorship was stupid. After the Warrington and Brighton massacres the odious duo of Adams and McGuiness should have been prime guests on such a programme. The look of perplexity and fear would have been a joy to behold
Russell Brand was a laughable pathetic revolutionary who believed in his publicity - his experience on question time was a joy. Everyone booed laughed and sniggered. Like Griffin you could see the descending horror on his face as he realised his supporters were a phone box in a nation
So let Mr Robinson have his platform. Let all extremists have it. It finishes them off very quickly
He crossed a line a long time ago. I don't even remember what he wrote but it was abusive and disrespectful. For the record I think he's the only person I've ever put on ignore.
With respect - the Marxist grab for power comment is lazy - maybe we should think about why people believe that it could be an alternative to our capitalist way of life?The proportions are hard to judge, I hope many involved are for the right reasons but for many others it's just another marxist grab for power. Some in this forum will be ok with that of course.
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We did think about it at election time tbf, and we said no thanks.With respect - the Marxist grab for power comment is lazy - maybe we should think about why people believe that it could be an alternative to our capitalist way of life?
I’ve recently been watching some documentaries on Netflix about Vietnam (the wife teaches history) and I was taken aback how much the Americans were prepared to sacrifice to try and stop communism - and they still spectacularly failed. Are we saying that much death was just to protect the American people and not the interests of the very rich and influential?
Completely agree. Censorship of speech and the written word are just another tool used by extremists to control the dialogue: usually because they know that their arguments cannot withhold the light being shone upon them. The best way to make abhorrent views insignificant is to encourage them to speak, not to refuse them the right.
We did think about it at election time tbf, and we said no thanks.
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With respect - the Marxist grab for power comment is lazy - maybe we should think about why people believe that it could be an alternative to our capitalist way of life?
I’ve recently been watching some documentaries on Netflix about Vietnam (the wife teaches history) and I was taken aback how much the Americans were prepared to sacrifice to try and stop communism - and they still spectacularly failed. Are we saying that much death was just to protect the American people and not the interests of the very rich and influential?
In general I agree entirely but I don't think it's quite as simple as let anyone have a platform.
I think most people have lines in the sand.
Completely agree. Censorship of speech and the written word are just another tool used by extremists to control the dialogue: usually because they know that their arguments cannot withhold the light being shone upon them. The best way to make abhorrent views insignificant is to encourage them to speak, not to refuse them the right.
On the whole I agree and there are/have been many instances of the extreme left demanding the silencing of opposing views because they're 'wrong' when as you say the most effective thing is put them front and centre and let them hang themselves.
Problem is it does allow them to spread their hate filled ideology to impressionable/unenquiring minds. I assume you'd be quite happy for a Jihadist to be given the right to speak? Most people would see it for the nonsense and they're making a fool of themselves but only a very very small minority have to be sucked in for it to perpetuate. How does Tommy Robinson have plenty of followers when pretty much everything he says is laughable nonsense? Farage talks complete nonsense 90% of the time and people get drawn in by the personality rather than the policy. Take a Trump or even Johnson speech and have it put through a Stephen Hawking style voice synthesizer and most people would say the person was barely literate.
It's a fine balancing act.
For someone who was quick to reassure me that teachers were drowning in workload during lockdown he has a fair bit of downtime to contribute endlessly on here. Must be extremely well organised is all I can say. Credit where it's due eh ?With respect a person whose been putting images of Gammon, refusing to engage in any debate (have you made any attempt to engage with Mr Trench) and sided with absurd trolls like Tony, David and Ring of Steel really has nowhere to go on that accusation
They probably do. I've chosen to mute Brighton but I wouldn't have him banned.
Here's a logic experiment. If you agree that the best way to defeat bad ideas it to let them speak and challenge, then by drawing a line in the sand you are saying that some ideas are so bad that we would prefer they ferment and don't want to discredit them in the light of day.
Yeah, that simple experiment is basically the crux of the argument, but how many people are happy to allow something really unpalatable to be voiced in public?
My one concession, and Grendel touched on it yesterday, anyone deliberately spreading misinformation, especially if it could potentially incite violence, should feel the force of the law.
Have your free speech, voice your opinion, but don't bullshit!
To be fair a lot of them seem to get away with it! Maybe some sort of way of eradicating it could be found in a Black Mirror episodeThey don't have to watch! This is saying that my sensibilities are more important than killing bad ideas.
Punishing bullshitting would see every politician behind bars. Put them on TV and when they bullshit... point, point, point, evidence, evidence, evidence and they are defeated in the eyes of everyone watching.
Yeah, that simple experiment is basically the crux of the argument, but how many people are happy to allow something really unpalatable to be voiced in public?
My one concession, and Grendel touched on it yesterday, anyone deliberately spreading misinformation, especially if it could potentially incite violence, should feel the force of the law.
Have your free speech, voice your opinion, but don't bullshit!
Thought about going full time private tutor? My wife does it, makes more money than at a school, works less hours than at a school and doesn't have to deal with all the bullshit at a school. She's never been happier.Oh, bit of news. I've started teaching again.So far I have one private pupil and a gentleman's agreement at a local school for supply work leading to a part-time role once lockdown is ended. Had an absolute blast with my first lesson last week. I love it when the kids understand.
Also planning to move to Devon, so unlikely to increase the number of live games I get to.
They don't have to watch! This is saying that my sensibilities are more important than killing bad ideas.
Punishing bullshitting would see every politician behind bars. Put them on TV and when they bullshit... point, point, point, evidence, evidence, evidence and they are defeated in the eyes of everyone watching.
No need for you to apologise at all.Apologies to everyone else for going off on one there.
Brought me back to fighting people saying my mum isn’t my mum. Don’t need this at 36 years old sat in my garden.
I agree personally on your first point, but I think you have trouble selling that to the nation. Censorship has always had its champions.
I'd be delighted to jail politicians for lying! But part of the problem is bullshit isn't getting called out enough.
Corona is a prime example, one minister after another getting up and blatantly lying and very little being said about it. I posted a link to and article in the Trump thread on the amount of lies he's told it's quite astonishing.
But my point wasn't just aimed at politicians. We've all got a platform now, so freedom of speech, great, but there needs to be some accountability and responsibility as well and I see a frightening lack of that at the moment and people can say it's the left doing this or the right doing that but if people are honest it's coming from all ends of the political spectrum and beyond politics as people try to settle personal scores.
Jailing politicians for lying is absurd
like it or not the £350m was not a lie but the remain argument of being I think it was £4,000 a year was.
The oversimplification is statistics to “prove” the uk has higher deaths is an example of not lying but knowing full well it’s a political message by putting simple fudged analysis to obtain a pre ordained outcome
Jeremy Corbin I’m pretty certain lies when he said he wanted the remain campaign to win the referendum. John McDonnell found sorry suddenly a very easy word when he never uttered it before regarding his desire for the Irish bombing and the murderibg of thatcher (it was a joke you see)
It’s a pointless persuit or Mr Corbyn, Mr Campbell, Mr Blair, Mr Clegg would already have the cells filled
I'll make a thread when I'm at my laptop about it all, warning everybody.
The silly bickering and avatars don't really help so they will be banned too if people abuse them.
Nooooooo!Is it possible to restrict avatars to a pre-approved selection? Old kits, badges, that sexy pic of Cobi Jones. Actually, forget the kits and badges
Thought about going full time private tutor? My wife does it, makes more money than at a school, works less hours than at a school and doesn't have to deal with all the bullshit at a school. She's never been happier.
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Ah I didn't realise you were a little older. Still though, a bit of pocket money is always nice.Back years ago when I was a teacher earning a pittance I did loads - over 10 hours per week. It's what dragged us out of relative poverty. I'm retired now; it's not about the money but about helping kids and also because I like seeing them succeed. Loads of people are frightened of maths and I like to think that I can remove that fear and get them to enjoy it. I'll probably end up with 5 or so if I'm not in a school. I don't want so many that I cannot read or work in the garden.
Oooooh, what a rebel you are.
But why would you do that ? Just to shock ?
You sound like you rather miss the bombings and "struggle" of the 1970s ,80s and 90s and want to simply rake it up on here.
You should grow up, get a hobby and get that chip off your shoulder.
No need for you to apologise at all.
I don't think a lot of people did agree with Griffin, hence he disappeared off the face of the earth and hence why I think the majority of people in this country are actually when it comes down to it, good people.Had a bit of this conversation earlier in the thread in response to the denying people a platform. Nick Griffin was used as an example so I’ll continue to use him him as an example. Why should I have to see someone who actually thinks I shouldn’t exist as a person on my tv. Ok so he dug his own grave so to speak, but I guarantee a lot of people agreed with what he was saying.
The post earlier about ISIS was a great example. Should we give them a party political broadcast on bbc at 6:00pm on a Friday? Of course we shouldn’t.
Slight bit of whataboutary but what’s good for the goose etc.
I don't think a lot of people did agree with Griffin, hence he disappeared off the face of the earth and hence why I think the majority of people in this country are actually when it comes down to it, good people.
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Oh it's a lot when they are all stood together but when it comes down to percentages of a population, I can't be arsed to work out figures, but its tiny.I agree. But I consider 500 a lot. And all those bellends yesterday would be stood right next to him and that was more than 500.
Grenners remember the offer. Charity boxing match
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