George Floyd (2 Viewers)

[TomRad85]

Fuck off c***

I set you up for an open goal there didn't I

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

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[Skybluefaz]

Adrian Durham actually puts it quite well.

 

[SBT]

I'd much rather here from balanced people like Robbie Earle, like Dizzee Rascal, like the humble guy who jumped in to save the bloke from getting a kicking than people who take it too far the other way and start to stereotype white people.

I honestly don't get how hearing more people like Dizzee Rascal say they can't be bothered to talk about it right now is crucial to advancing the national dialogue. But I can see why it might be reassuring to someone who would be much happier talking about other stuff instead.

As for Robbie Earle - he was pushed to tears by the guy in Burnley trying to undermine the one token gesture being made to BLM, but here people are trying to make excuses for the guy when he [gasp] faced consequences for it. Somehow I don't think people were listening to Robbie Earle as closely as you say you were.

 

[Nick]

I honestly don't get how hearing more people like Dizzee Rascal say they can't be bothered to talk about it right now is crucial to advancing the national dialogue. But I can see why it might be reassuring to someone who would be much happier talking about other stuff instead.

As for Robbie Earle - he was pushed to tears by the guy in Burnley trying to undermine the one token gesture being made to BLM, but here people are trying to make excuses for the guy when he [gasp] faced consequences for it. Somehow I don't think people were listening to Robbie Earle as closely as you say you were.

Thing is, nobody has made excuses for him.

It's part of the problem, people don't seem to be able to read and try to take things to the other end of the spectrum. It gets nowhere, does it?

Much the same as Piers Morgan was desperate to hear Dizzee Rascal pile in and get worked up, some people are desperate to judge anybody who is white. I mean how extreme do you want to get with making somebody who is white, not in power etc, feel uncomfortable to get things sorted?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I mean how extreme do you want to get with making somebody who is white, not in power etc, feel uncomfortable to get things sorted?

Quite a few people on here would.
I think they should renounce their whiteness. After all, it's has a very tarnished history.

 

[Nick]

It's also naive to think all of this "defund the police" stuff isn't having an impact. Much the same as when Tommy Robinson gives his minions subtle direction to act up.

Now you have police literally running for their own safety while their cars are smashed up with sledge hammers.

 

[clint van damme]

It's also naive to think all of this "defund the police" stuff isn't having an impact. Much the same as when Tommy Robinson gives his minions subtle direction to act up.

Now you have police literally running for their own safety while their cars are smashed up with sledge hammers.

I said it before and I don't think you replied, the Tories have been defunding the police for ten years.
When the police chief of Manchester said it would increase the chance of a terrorist attack then home Secretary Theresa May said he was being a drama queen, this was not long before the Manchester arena bombing.

I don't think I 've ever saw you slating the Tories for it but now a group of street activists are calling for it (and I personally haven't seen calls for it in this country though I'm not saying there haven't been) you keep mentioning it.
I really can't understand your reasoning.

 

[Nick]

I said it before and I don't think you replied, the Tories have been defunding the police for ten years.
When the police chief of Manchester said it would increase the chance of a terrorist attack then home Secretary Theresa May said he was being a drama queen, this was not long before the Manchester arena bombing.

I don't think I 've ever saw you slating the Tories for it but now a group of street activists are calling for it (and I personally haven't seen calls for it in this country though I'm not saying there haven't been) you keep mentioning it.
I really can't understand your reasoning.

Again, it's not all or nothing is it it? It's not one or the other?

Yes, the police are under funded and need much more funding. You will probably notice I got bored of the Brexit and Corona thread because it's all people taking whatever they can to backup whichever party they support (and then there's Dom). You probably won't see me slating labour, the tories or the lib dems in the politics threads.

Is it the same street activists who smashed the fuck out of the police last night after a BLM event?*

*Again, a disclaimer to say that because I disagree with that it doesn't mean that I don't think people should be equal.

 

[chiefdave]

Is it the same street activists who smashed the fuck out of the police last night after a BLM event?

If you're referring to Brixton the violence was at a block party. The Black Lives Matter event ran 1-7pm and I can't find any reports of issues at that.

 

[clint van damme]

Again, it's not all or nothing is it it? It's not one or the other?

Yes, the police are under funded and need much more funding. You will probably notice I got bored of the Brexit and Corona thread because it's all people taking whatever they can to backup whichever party they support (and then there's Dom). You probably won't see me slating labour, the tories or the lib dems in the politics threads.

Is it the same street activists who smashed the fuck out of the police last night after a BLM event?*

*Again, a disclaimer to say that because I disagree with that it doesn't mean that I don't think people should be equal.

But if you're really concerned with police funding why only mention it now when a few blowhards are mentioning it and not during the last ten years when it's been happening quiet aggressively and with harsh consequences?

I can't understand the logic?
And have you seen activists calling for defunding in this country? They are absolute th king idiots if they have been.

America is different. Their police spend is huge and they e become increasingly milatirised. I'm not sure if defunding over there would help I've not read up on.it but their policng situation is a much different scenario to ours

 

[Nick]

If you're referring to Brixton the violence was at a block party. The Black Lives Matter event ran 1-7pm and I can't find any reports of issues at that.

Totally separate then?

The same as if there was an EDL rally and then there was a riot just up the road?

 

[Nick]

But if you're really concerned with police funding why only mention it now when a few blowhards are mentioning it and not during the last ten years when it's been happening quiet aggressively and with harsh consequences?

I can't understand the logic?
And have you seen activists calling for defunding in this country? They are absolute th king idiots if they have been.

America is different. Their police spend is huge and they e become increasingly milatirised. I'm not sure if defunding over there would help I've not read up on.it but their living situation is a much different scenario to ours

I haven't mentioned the funding, I am mentioning that people want to get rid of the police after an incident in America. I haven't got into the politics and budgets. This is the issue, everybody wants to politicise things to suit if they prefer labour or conservative.

The official Black Lives Matter website features defund the police.



If you put "Defund the Police UK" into Google, surprisingly an awful lot of content is from a company called "Novara Media". Strangely enough the woman in the middle of the storm about the park picture / racist comments is an editor.

This is why "Black Lives Matter" is far too much of a broad statement just by saying it, does it mean that you agree with that aspect of it? Can you disagree with that bullshit but still think that people should be equal?

 

[clint van damme]

I haven't mentioned the funding, I am mentioning that people want to get rid of the police after an incident in America. I haven't got into the politics and budgets. This is the issue, everybody wants to politicise things to suit if they prefer labour or conservative.

The official Black Lives Matter website features defund the police.

I've said before, everything is political. Everything. There's no point trying to escape that.

And again, I highly doubt BLM will ever have any say in police funding, if that's their agenda it's nonsense but it doesn't bother me because it won't be taken seriously.

The 20,000 police and 20,000 support staff that have gone in the last ten years due to cuts, that really worries me.

 

[clint van damme]

Thing is, nobody has made excuses for him.

It's part of the problem, people don't seem to be able to read and try to take things to the other end of the spectrum. It gets nowhere, does it?

Much the same as Piers Morgan was desperate to hear Dizzee Rascal pile in and get worked up, some people are desperate to judge anybody who is white. I mean how extreme do you want to get with making somebody who is white, not in power etc, feel uncomfortable to get things sorted?

Yep. Not one person made an excuse for the Burnley idiot.
I questioned should he have lost his job. That's not making an excuse for him.

Same as the lad who got 3 months for throwing a smoke bomb.
Was he a fucking idiot- yes.
Should he have been jailed? Not a chance.

 

[Nick]

Yep. Not one person made an excuse for the Burnley idiot.
I questioned should he have lost his job. That's not making an excuse for him.

Same as the lad who got 3 months for throwing a smoke bomb.
Was he a fucking idiot- yes.
Should he have been jailed? Not a chance.

This is one of the issues, having a discussion about it isn't defending things.

How are people going to talk about things if people just jump in and say "stop defending them" when nobody is.

 

[chiefdave]

Totally separate then?

The same as if there was an EDL rally and then there was a riot just up the road?

Just going off what the police have said - an unlicensed music event. Seems to be a few of them about at the moment, was one in Trafford with 3 stabbings and a rape. Idiotic to have at the best of times but especially at the moment.

 

[Nick]

I've said before, everything is political. Everything. There's no point trying to escape that.

And again, I highly doubt BLM will ever have any say in police funding, if that's their agenda it's nonsense but it doesn't bother me because it won't be taken seriously.

The 20,000 police and 20,000 support staff that have gone in the last ten years due to cuts, that really worries me.

My point is more about people need to face up to their own actions and what they say.

I couldn't give a fuck who the major of London is while there are riots going on, it could be Johnson or Kahn but the people stood on the police car smashing it up with a sledge hammer need to take some responsibility. Yet the discussion turns to who is the best out of Johnson or Kahn rather than getting to the root of the issue.

Everything doesn't have to be made political, I have acted like a prick many a time and while I may blame the beer I haven't thought to make out it's a politicians fault. Or say "well a politician has 3 rent boys in his boot, why cant I".

People need to face up to things and take responsibility for themselves, I need to face up to racism I probably don't see. It isn't a one way street when it's a discussion though.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Hmmm-look what she says here when she thinks she’s around like minded people.

Shocking behaviour but is anybody surprised? Despite this, there will still be publishers or producers who will give her colum inches or stick her infront of a camer because it helps sell papers or adverts. All for exposing racist behaviour, but it does more harm than good sometimes.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Nick st al. The story of Stephan Lawrence is now on BBC I player

worth a look

Remember it well and worth a watch if anybody is interested about the case where the judge branded the police institutionally racist. If ever a meaningless death could have some meaning this was it, the poor lads death was a catalyst for attempting major reform and the police have really made an effort since then. Don't forget it was over 25 years ago, most of the plod then have long gone and replaced by a generation like our own kids, who have grown up in a more enlightened environment where most people accept and respect diversity. You'll obviously get a few racists as in all jobs and all communities, but glad our lot aren't like US cops who haven't moved forwards as much as we have.

 

[Nick]

Nick st al. The story of Stephan Lawrence is now on BBC I player

worth a look

Cheers, I will have a look tonight after the car park one!

 

[shmmeee]

“Defund the police” is the worst piece of politics I’ve seen since the Lib Dems.

It’s such a stupid slogan especially as you can’t find anyone but a couple of Twitter weirdos who mean it literally, instead you’ve got people saying it to mean “spend more on rehabilitation” and wondering why people don’t support them. Nuts.

 

[chiefdave]

Defund the Police makes more sense in the US where budgets are spiralling out of control while training is minimal.

The principle can be applied here as well. It doesn't actually mean no funding for the police and have everything be a free for all, although as with all things there are some people on the fringes that have that extreme view. Not very well named IMO but then people struggle to grasp something as simple as black lives matter so you can see the issue.

All it means is properly funding other services so the police, and other emergency services, are left to deal with actual crime. So mental health services are funded sufficiently, homelessness, drug and alcohol rehabilitation etc. Idea being that dealing with the issues that lead to criminal activity is a better option than waiting until something is at the point the police get involved. If you watch something like the Ambulance documentary on BBC the paramedics are constantly talking about how they are spending less and less time doing their actual job and more time filling in for services that no longer exist thanks to cuts.

 

[chiefdave]

“Defund the police” is the worst piece of politics I’ve seen since the Lib Dems.

It’s such a stupid slogan especially as you can’t find anyone but a couple of Twitter weirdos who mean it literally, instead you’ve got people saying it to mean “spend more on rehabilitation” and wondering why people don’t support them. Nuts.

Agree its not good but what do you use instead? People are struggling with the concept of Black Lives Matter and you can't really get a simpler message than that.

 

[clint van damme]

Defund the Police makes more sense in the US where budgets are spiralling out of control while training is minimal.

The principle can be applied here as well. It doesn't actually mean no funding for the police and have everything be a free for all, although as with all things there are some people on the fringes that have that extreme view. Not very well named IMO but then people struggle to grasp something as simple as black lives matter so you can see the issue.

All it means is properly funding other services so the police, and other emergency services, are left to deal with actual crime. So mental health services are funded sufficiently, homelessness, drug and alcohol rehabilitation etc. Idea being that dealing with the issues that lead to criminal activity is a better option than waiting until something is at the point the police get involved. If you watch something like the Ambulance documentary on BBC the paramedics are constantly talking about how they are spending less and less time doing their actual job and more time filling in for services that no longer exist thanks to cuts.

I'm sure this is mainly referring to the States. In addition to the points you've made many officers over there go from one year to the next not making a felony arrest, they're equipped with hardware the military would be proud off and the FBI have warned that there has been.a lit of infiltration through recruitment drives over the last few years.

Anyone calling for defunding here is a mentalist.

 

[Nick]

Defund the Police makes more sense in the US where budgets are spiralling out of control while training is minimal.

The principle can be applied here as well. It doesn't actually mean no funding for the police and have everything be a free for all, although as with all things there are some people on the fringes that have that extreme view. Not very well named IMO but then people struggle to grasp something as simple as black lives matter so you can see the issue.

All it means is properly funding other services so the police, and other emergency services, are left to deal with actual crime. So mental health services are funded sufficiently, homelessness, drug and alcohol rehabilitation etc. Idea being that dealing with the issues that lead to criminal activity is a better option than waiting until something is at the point the police get involved. If you watch something like the Ambulance documentary on BBC the paramedics are constantly talking about how they are spending less and less time doing their actual job and more time filling in for services that no longer exist thanks to cuts.

Does it? The people I have seen talk about it say it's because they don't want money going to racist institutions but want it to go to places that will protect them.

 

[Grendel]

Agree its not good but what do you use instead? People are struggling with the concept of Black Lives Matter and you can't really get a simpler message than that.

The uk BLM campaign has as its first objective the removal of capitalism

 

[hill83]

Totally separate then?

The same as if there was an EDL rally and then there was a riot just up the road?

Not saying it was related or not as I don’t know. But this thread would hit 300 pages with 95% of posts by you if something similar was suggested, but it was us lot celebrating our promotion nearby a couple of hours beforehand.

 

[Nick]

Not saying it was related or not as I don’t know. But this thread would hit 300 pages with 95% of posts by you if something similar was suggested, but it was us lot celebrating our promotion nearby a couple of hours beforehand.

Not really.

I said at the time the social distancing was non-existent and called that racist prick out for what it was straight away as soon as I saw the video.

 

[chiefdave]

Anyone calling for defunding here is a mentalist.

Indeed but the same principle of funding other services properly so the emergency services aren't left to sort issues better dealt with by specialist services still applies.

The fact everyone is armed in the states amplifies the issues there. You're not going to get the police shooting and killing someone reported as asleep in a car here as you'd never have armed police involved.

 

[hill83]

Not really.

I said at the time the social distancing was non-existent and called that racist prick out for what it was straight away as soon as I saw the video.

Mention another bits all day. You’d be all over it.

 

[David O'Day]

I'm sure this is mainly referring to the States. In addition to the points you've made many officers over there go from one year to the next not making a felony arrest, they're equipped with hardware the military would be proud off and the FBI have warned that there has been.a lit of infiltration through recruitment drives over the last few years.

Anyone calling for defunding here is a mentalist.

Yep it's regarding forces like the NYPD who's budget is 6bn dollars a year.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Only 12% of qualified engineers in the UK are women.
#womenslivesmatter.

 

[hill83]

Only 12% of qualified engineers in the UK are women.
#womenslivesmatter.

Sounds like you are suggesting they don’t matter with this belter.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Sounds like you are suggesting they don’t matter with this belter.

Haha. Not at all. Perhaps they just don't want to be engineers. Perhaps the opportunities for women in engineering are not there rather like opportunities for minority groups in law etc as suggested by David Lammy, but there won't be any fuss about such a disproportionate number.

 

[shmmeee]

Defund the Police makes more sense in the US where budgets are spiralling out of control while training is minimal.

The principle can be applied here as well. It doesn't actually mean no funding for the police and have everything be a free for all, although as with all things there are some people on the fringes that have that extreme view. Not very well named IMO but then people struggle to grasp something as simple as black lives matter so you can see the issue.

All it means is properly funding other services so the police, and other emergency services, are left to deal with actual crime. So mental health services are funded sufficiently, homelessness, drug and alcohol rehabilitation etc. Idea being that dealing with the issues that lead to criminal activity is a better option than waiting until something is at the point the police get involved. If you watch something like the Ambulance documentary on BBC the paramedics are constantly talking about how they are spending less and less time doing their actual job and more time filling in for services that no longer exist thanks to cuts.

That’s why I mean it’s poor politics. Compare to “tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime”, which is essentially the same thing but accepted across the political spectrum.

In politics if you’re explaining you’re losing.