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Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 8, 2023

mmttww said:
Not what I said, which was pretty much the opposite. Lots of reasons for people to stop thinking like this...

It didn't. Luton were the better team over the season, and the one before that. They were better almost all game.

"Most of the stadium knew he would miss" is balls. Everyone around me said that about every pen besides Vik.

Edit: unless all these people are Vulcans or something and time isn't linear to them, or the SBA are all clairvoyents.

No - it didn't. Ben Wilson making no saves, us being largely sh*t all game incl. ET, losing a coin toss all added up.

I can see why getting that far and missing out is a frustration. What I won't let slide is people's fixation on blame.

Yep, and I'd argue the obsession with finding someone to blame is the definition of childish.

A mature mindset understands that Dabo missed, that we lost, that lots of things explain that, and moves on.

People rounding on a man with the guts to take that pen when others didn't pisses me off, so I'll call bullsh*t.

and Thanks.

You seem to be extremely sensitive about this, and Dabo.

Unless my part of the stadium was some kind of closed off echo-chamber, the reactions from people around clearly showed there was a disbelief he was stepping up. Swearing, people sitting back in the seats, people holding their heads in their hands. Even if you thought one or two of the others might not be the best choice, Dabo was in a category of his own. To say that wasn't the case is just denial and makes your argument completely unbelievable. 'At least he had the balls' is also white flag territory. It was game over as soon as he stepped forward.

The biggest denominator that we didn't win was a missed penalty by someone who wasn't good enough to take it. You can blame many other variables, but call a spade a spade, this was the biggest one.

mmttww · Dec 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
...but call a spade a spade

Good luck with that one.

I've said all I want to on this.

NortonSkyBlue · Dec 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You seem to be extremely sensitive about this, and Dabo.

Unless my part of the stadium was some kind of closed off echo-chamber, the reactions from people around clearly showed there was a disbelief he was stepping up. Swearing, people sitting back in the seats, people holding their heads in their hands. Even if you thought one or two of the others might not be the best choice, Dabo was in a category of his own. To say that wasn't the case is just denial and makes your argument completely unbelievable. 'At least he had the balls' is also white flag territory. It was game over as soon as he stepped forward.

The biggest denominator that we didn't win was a missed penalty by someone who wasn't good enough to take it. You can blame many other variables, but call a spade a spade, this was the biggest one.

Yes unfortunate use of the English language there. Hindsight is the easiest knowledge to learn. Dabo scores, Sheaf misses then its “I knew Sheaf would miss”
When Eccles stepped up it was much the same around me “ that’s the game lost then”
As disappointed as I was on the day with the outcome I was proud of the effort put in wearing our shirt and badge with pride. Yes we were not at our best but we clawed our way back in to the game and it was anybody’s game.
Our team were not at our best and nor were our supporters.

Sbarcher · Dec 8, 2023

Why all this shit for Dabo? How many did Wilson save?
Shit happens let’s live in the present.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 8, 2023

mmttww said:
Good luck with that one.

I've said all I want to on this.

So we have now gone from 'we lost a penalty shootout but it has nothing to do with the guy that missed' and a set of tantrums...

...To 'I've said all I want to on this' and a Jay-Z GIF.

About as much of a surprise as Dabo missing a penalty. The amount of denial on this is staggering.

The Philosopher · Dec 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
So we have now gone from 'we lost a penalty shootout but it has nothing to do with the guy that missed' and a set of tantrums...

...To 'I've said all I want to on this' and a Jay-Z GIF.

About as much of a surprise as Dabo missing a penalty. The amount of denial on this is staggering.

I agree but think we are in the minority (even have to check if this word is non-offensive but could think of no other) on this thread.

No one is slating Dabo. Fair play for stepping up.

The whole board is littered with “players that got away” threads and “Robins put the wrong team out” threads. Points of divergence debated there that rarely impact on £100m lost revenues and in this case, probably the best striker we’ve seen in years leaving (the title of this thread).

But question “what if” and “why Dabo” and you’re going to get verbal hoying.

Strange bunch, us posters on here.

As I said, probably best leave it now.

MalcSB · Dec 8, 2023

shmmeee said:
How did we end up second and in front of their fans? Was it two coin tosses?

Yes it was, seems very unfair.

shmmeee · Dec 8, 2023

MalcSB said:
Yes it was, seems very unfair.

Really does. When did they change that?

MusicDating · Dec 8, 2023

MalcSB said:
Yes it was, seems very unfair.

Yup, it's ridiculous to allow a team two advantages. It should be one toss for end or going first.

I'm sure someone has a hour or two free on a Friday afternoon to dig out the stats on these...

The Philosopher · Dec 8, 2023

MusicDating said:
Yup, it's ridiculous to allow a team two advantages. It should be one toss for end or going first.

I'm sure someone has a hour or two free on a Friday afternoon to dig out the stats on these...

Maybe the solution is to have both goals in use with, say, both teams going at “the wrong end” (FFS I’ve just read that back). It’s doable, probably means Lino’s have to jog a bit but at least the Goalkeepers stay put.

MalcSB · Dec 8, 2023

The ABBA system was fairer but deemed over complicated. Surely better to be fair when utimately the winner takes it all.

MalcSB · Dec 8, 2023

shmmeee said:
Really does. When did they change that?

Sorry, don't know.

MusicDating · Dec 8, 2023

MusicDating said:
Yup, it's ridiculous to allow a team two advantages. It should be one toss for end or going first.

I'm sure someone has a hour or two free on a Friday afternoon to dig out the stats on these...

Okay, so the first toss for which end, just the ref calls it! Basically they'll say heads for that end or tails for that end. Unless the sun is glaring on one end etc in which case there won't be a toss for ends.

And then one of the captains will call on the second toss -

Law 10 - Determining the Outcome of the Match

IFAB Laws of the Game

www.thefa.com

Oh and about 60% of the time the team going first wins.

fernandopartridge · Dec 8, 2023

MalcSB said:
The ABBA system was fairer but deemed over complicated. Surely better to be fair when utimately the winner takes it all.

Like everything in football it's probably something to do with money money money.

Old Warwickshire lad · Dec 8, 2023

Dabo wasn’t responsible for us not getting promoted. We played the play off game at Wembley.
On the day we did not play as well as we had played in the games up to that point, hence we lost the tie in a shootout.
Time to get over it and move on, and certainly stop crucifying a player who gave his all for this club.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 8, 2023

shmmeee said:
How did we end up second and in front of their fans? Was it two coin tosses?

Yes

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You seem to be extremely sensitive about this, and Dabo.

Unless my part of the stadium was some kind of closed off echo-chamber, the reactions from people around clearly showed there was a disbelief he was stepping up. Swearing, people sitting back in the seats, people holding their heads in their hands. Even if you thought one or two of the others might not be the best choice, Dabo was in a category of his own. To say that wasn't the case is just denial and makes your argument completely unbelievable. 'At least he had the balls' is also white flag territory. It was game over as soon as he stepped forward.

The biggest denominator that we didn't win was a missed penalty by someone who wasn't good enough to take it. You can blame many other variables, but call a spade a spade, this was the biggest one.

Or, your confirmation bias… You don’t know why the people were saying ‘ffs’ or whatever. You’re assuming it was because of the taker.

I can’t quite remember what I did, but I felt dejected after every Luton penalty because sooner or later someone was going to miss.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 8, 2023

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Yes

Or, your confirmation bias… You don’t know why the people were saying ‘ffs’ or whatever. You’re assuming it was because of the taker.

I can’t quite remember what I did, but I felt dejected after every Luton penalty because sooner or later someone was going to miss.

The level of denial on here is tiresome. I could understand playing it down if it was a non-league game, or a checkatrade knockout match, but this was one of the biggest games in world football that we had a chance of winning, no matter what took us there, yet we blew it at the last.

I'm not assuming the crowd reaction was because of the taker. It was because of the taker. The timing was perfectly synchronised with him stepping up. Unless you're going to try and convince me an act of God occurred at the very same second which had the crowd in shock? A lot of people knew he would miss, and he did. Personally he would have been the last person on the list to take one, and anyone saying he should have taken one within the club (himself included) have a portion of blame. I question anyone that thought he would score.

We lost because of a penalty. The penalty was taken by someone not good enough to take it. Thousands in the stadium knew it before and just because a few people on here that seem vocal enough to protect Dabo to the death doesn't change that. We are now at the point of 'we lost a penalty shootout and failed to get promoted, but that has nothing to do with the guy who missed the penalty'.

It is an astonishing level of denial.

itsabuzzard · Dec 8, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
Extra-Special Bitter for the Real Ale Twats amongst us, fortunately it seems to fit ESB1

Do you think that Real Ale Twats and Sky-Blue trainer wearing paedophiles are two completely separate sub-sets?

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
The level of denial on here is tiresome. I could understand playing it down if it was a non-league game, or a checkatrade knockout match, but this was one of the biggest games in world football that we had a chance of winning, no matter what took us there, yet we blew it at the last.

I'm not assuming the crowd reaction was because of the taker. It was because of the taker. The timing was perfectly synchronised with him stepping up. Unless you're going to try and convince me an act of God occurred at the very same second which had the crowd in shock? A lot of people knew he would miss, and he did. Personally he would have been the last person on the list to take one, and anyone saying he should have taken one within the club (himself included) have a portion of blame. I question anyone that thought he would score.

We lost because of a penalty. The penalty was taken by someone not good enough to take it. Thousands in the stadium knew it before and just because a few people on here that seem vocal enough to protect Dabo to the death doesn't change that. We are now at the point of 'we lost a penalty shootout and failed to get promoted, but that has nothing to do with the guy who missed the penalty'.

It is an astonishing level of denial.

Your back up plans are Bidwell, McFadz and Wilson. Where this confidence in them come from? If we had a striker or attacking midfielder to hand, I’d understand your criticisms a bit more.

My position is simple: I weren’t convinced any of our penalty takers past Gyokeres and Godden would score. So was I surprised Dabo missed? Not really, likewise, I wouldn’t be so confident any of the aforementioned players would.

Especially if the rumours of certain players not wanting to take a penalty is true. Imagine the reaction of a manager forced a player to take a penalty who didn’t want to and they lost the match.

We’ve all watched penalty shootouts where Lampard, Gerrard and Beckham have missed and in Qatar Kane missed a penalty v France. Great players miss penalties too.

Dabo wasn’t good enough to be kept on but that didn’t mean he wasn’t the 6th best taker on the field at that time.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 8, 2023

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Dabo wasn’t good enough to be kept on but that didn’t mean he wasn’t the 6th best taker on the field at that time.

Couldn't disagree more I'm afraid.

People keep talking about Bidwell and McFadzean (who I still would have backed over Dabo), but we also had Panzo and McNally. I think because they were loan players they are immediately discounted, but the former could strike a ball very well. Dabo should have been an absolute last resort, and I don't buy the notion he was the only one willing to step forward (you can even see Bidwell go forward initially before some conversation takes place). It is fabricated argument to distract away from the fact of the matter.

Putting him forward lost us the game. Not a draw against Swansea earlier in the season, not the colour of Joys handbag, and certainly not any other variable that had a 0.0001% influence. We had a player that was no where near good enough, especially on goal. He took a penalty. He missed the target. We lost the shootout. We lost the game.

skybluegod · Dec 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Couldn't disagree more I'm afraid.

People keep talking about Bidwell and McFadzean (who I still would have backed over Dabo), but we also had Panzo and Doyle. I think because they were loan players they are immediately discounted, but the former could strike a ball very well. Dabo should have been an absolute last resort, and I don't buy the notion he was the only one willing to step forward (you can even see Bidwell go forward initially before some conversation takes place). It is fabricated argument to distract away from the fact of the matter.

Putting him forward lost us the game. Not a draw against Swansea earlier in the season, not the colour of Joys handbag, and certainly not any other variable that had a 0.0001% influence. We had a player that was no where near good enough, especially on goal. He took a penalty. He missed the target. We lost the shootout. We lost the game.

Panzo

he would have been the the last person to take a penalty in that situation. He almost threw the game away and got lucky and looked a bag of nerves throughout.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
A few on this board may be in denial,

You ap

shmmeee said:
But what’s your counterfactual? Bidwell goes up and misses? Fadz goes up and misses?

We could just as easily blame Wilson for failing to save one of multiple attempts. Football does work like that. Just like Godden didn’t cost us a point last week cos we have no idea how Ipswich would have responded.

You’re trying to control the uncontrollable and retcon some great insight about Dabo not being the right person. Bidwell had taken three in his career the last five years ago and he missed. As far as I can tell Fadz has taken one in his career and missed it.

There’s no evidence either way. It is what it is.

And it's hard to imagine Dabo fighting them off to take one either!

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 8, 2023

skybluegod said:
Panzo he would have been the the last person to take a penalty in that situation. He almost threw the game away and got lucky and looked a bag of nerves throughout.

The level of desperation just gets worse.

Regardless of his slip up (which I agree was bad), anyone that would have Dabo take a penalty over Panzo is really just fuelling the denial argument. The way we are going, it wouldn't surprise me if Forest Green Rovers had an uptake in shirt sales in the Coventry area for Christmas!

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 8, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
You ap
And it's hard to imagine Dabo fighting them off to take one either!

'No one else wanted to take one'.

Bidwell clearly steps forward first as well.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Couldn't disagree more I'm afraid.

People keep talking about Bidwell and McFadzean (who I still would have backed over Dabo), but we also had Panzo and Doyle. I think because they were loan players they are immediately discounted, but the former could strike a ball very well. Dabo should have been an absolute last resort, and I don't buy the notion he was the only one willing to step forward (you can even see Bidwell go forward initially before some conversation takes place). It is fabricated argument to distract away from the fact of the matter.

Putting him forward lost us the game. Not a draw against Swansea earlier in the season, not the colour of Joys handbag, and certainly not any other variable that had a 0.0001% influence. We had a player that was no where near good enough, especially on goal. He took a penalty. He missed the target. We lost the shootout. We lost the game.

I wish I had your insights. can you share with us what the players mental states of the players were in the moment or how they faired in training up to the game?

Sounds awfully a lot like the people slating Southgate for picking Saka to take a pen in the Euros. Who was our 5th best in training and despite the miss, has gone to score all but 1-2 penalties in his professional career as Arsenal’s main penalty taker.

Bottom line is, you’ve got your scapegoat and that’s that. It could’ve been anyone who missed that final pen.

PS. Doyle had been subbed off, so couldn’t take a penalty. Just as Hamer, Allen, Palmer and even BNC.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
'No one else wanted to take one'.

Bidwell clearly steps forward first as well.

View attachment 32717

I wonder what you would have said had Bidwell missed. Who would you have blamed then?

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
'No one else wanted to take one'.

Bidwell clearly steps forward first as well.

View attachment 32717

And Dabo wrestles the ball off him before performing a smackdown to make sure he can't get up.

Face it, it's on the rest of the team rather than some bizarre witch hunt against Dabo which is truly truly insane

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 8, 2023

Mucca Mad Boys said:
I wonder what you would have said had Bidwell missed. Who would you have blamed then?

Deleted member 5849 said:
And Dabo wrestles the ball off him before performing a smackdown to make sure he can't get up.

Face it, it's on the rest of the team rather than some bizarre witch hunt against Dabo which is truly truly insane

What's insane is that some people will die on any hill as to not apportion any blame from the final on Dabo. That's what this is all about. You are too soft to call it what it is and now we in a territory where the amount of stupid arguments going on aren't a million miles away from 'I know you are, but what am I'. It is beyond parody, but obviously easier to play clowns than to accept what actually happened.

Had Dabo gone 10th and missed would I feel different? Yes. Had Bidwell missed, would I feel different? Also yes. Him, Panzo, and McNally all would have been better options than Dabo. Even if a corner of SBT too wet and limp to accept the truth say otherwise.

We lost the final. Dabo missed a penalty. He should have never taken one. It really is as simple as that, even if you don't like it.

MusicDating · Dec 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
What's insane is that some people will die on any hill as to not apportion any blame from the final on Dabo. That's what this is all about. You are too soft to call it what it is and now we in a territory where the amount of stupid arguments going on aren't a million miles away from 'I know you are, but what am I'. It is beyond parody, but obviously easier to play clowns than to accept what actually happened.

Had Dabo gone 10th and missed would I feel different? Yes. Had Bidwell missed, would I feel different? Also yes. Him, Panzo, and McNally all would have been better options than Dabo. Even if a corner of SBT too wet and limp to accept the truth say otherwise.

We lost the final. Dabo missed a penalty. He should have never taken one. It really is as simple as that, even if you don't like it.

This absolute conviction that the thing you didn't do is always better than the thing you did do is a weird (and modern?) one.

If we had lived out these alternative realities and every other player left would also have missed, which hill would you die on then?

The Philosopher · Dec 8, 2023

skybluegod said:
Panzo he would have been the the last person to take a penalty in that situation. He almost threw the game away and got lucky and looked a bag of nerves throughout.

I agree.

See, you would have been shocked to see Panzo dander over as 6th. I get it.

Many were surprised to see Dabo, that’s all.

Personally, much like player ratings threads, people rate penalty taker order.

For me:

That day on the pitch:

Gyok
Godden
Sheaf
Eccles
Kelly

(obvs, but here’s the point of divergence)

Fadz
Bidwell
McNally
Wilson
Dabo
Panzo

I think that’s the order many fans expected.

Also, maybe expected Robins / Ady etc to do the “faith in you, stand as my decision, my fault not yours etc.” and give a list / order, not the apparent “who feels good?” Thing.

But who really knows?

Wilson may have saved one, their next taker might have been a rabbit and done a Dabo - who knows?

Just sore we’ve lost Gyok

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 8, 2023

The Philosopher said:
Many were surprised to see Dabo, that’s all.

And that's fine. I don't think people are really arguing with your view tbh, I'd have thought Bidwell given he takes set pieces. But it's the hang Dabo for missing that's the difficulty thing to get by on this Gyokeres(!) thread, rather than what you've been writing.

The Philosopher · Dec 8, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
And that's fine. I don't think people are really arguing with your view tbh, I'd have thought Bidwell given he takes set pieces. But it's the hang Dabo for missing that's the difficulty thing to get by on this Gyokeres(!) thread, rather than what you've been writing.

Yes, fair one.

When I see Ayari roaming around in some of the same areas Gyok was last year and think WTF? How has it come to this? Why Luton not us? Why, why whaaaa

I’ll get over it. One day. Maybe.

skybluegod · Dec 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
The level of desperation just gets worse.

Regardless of his slip up (which I agree was bad), anyone that would have Dabo take a penalty over Panzo is really just fuelling the denial argument. The way we are going, it wouldn't surprise me if Forest Green Rovers had an uptake in shirt sales in the Coventry area for Christmas!

Your response doesn't even make sense

I thought dabo would miss when he stepped up, but I still would have preferred him over Panzo.

Nuskyblue · Dec 8, 2023

skybluegod said:
Would only have to make 5 appearances to be eligible...
Although arsenal will bottle it and man city/Liverpool will win 20 on the bounce in the new year I'm sure

I still think Man City....

However Vic would be an upgrade on Nketiah and Jesus. He is way more clinical and he offers more than just goals, that could swing it for them. Maybe.

Citeh will still win it tho because Pep

fernandopartridge · Dec 8, 2023

Not sure I get the surprise about Dabo taking one, he was always a big character who didn't hide

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