Gyokeres (46 Viewers)

1ccfc · Jun 8, 2023

It’s easy to say sell him for this or that, but people seem to forget that the three parties all must align (player, selling club and buying club). If one out of the three is on a different page, then the transfer won’t happen. Yes, we might get offered X amount that works for the club, but if Vik doesn’t like the move, he won’t go. With just 12 months left, he might fancy a free transfer with large signing on fee. As we know, he can negotiate from January with European teams, like Diaz did at Blackburn. Until something happens it's all guess work and wishful thinking.

fernandopartridge · Jun 8, 2023

letsallsingtogether said:
Hamers worth more then Vik IMHO.

I disagree, 33 goal involvements for Vik last season is just tremendous, he carried the side through the first half of the season.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 8, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
I disagree, 33 goal involvements for Vik last season is just tremendous, he carried the side through the first half of the season.

His consistency across two seasons has been unbelievable, and this season our tactics were basically punt it up to him and see if he could do anything with it.

long way home · Jun 8, 2023

Big shoes to fill when he goes, but its Robbins job to find different ways to get the same results with different players or different systems. He already knows what he has got and will already know what he needs to make the improvements. I would imagine he will want Vik as long as possible and to bring in players that can learn and have time to bed into the squad and culture thats being created.

I dint want the days of selling because we need and then scrambling for replacements. I hope more thought and more structure is now in place to fill gaps and sell on our terms. Not easy but MR has proved its not impossible to improve even with a sub standard budget.

saveitforthewombles · Jun 8, 2023

long way home said:
Big shoes to fill when he goes, but its Robbins job to find different ways to get the same results with different players or different systems. He already knows what he has got and will already know what he needs to make the improvements. I would imagine he will want Vik as long as possible and to bring in players that can learn and have time to bed into the squad and culture thats being created.

I dint want the days of selling because we need and then scrambling for replacements. I hope more thought and more structure is now in place to fill gaps and sell on our terms. Not easy but MR has proved its not impossible to improve even with a sub standard budget.

you raise a good point with systems. Robins has adopted multiple over the years - 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 5-3-2, 5-4-1. And switched from possession based to counter attacking more recently. Confident he'll crack the code in terms of players and the right system to play. But they have to replace any outgoings with quality....

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 8, 2023

PVA said:
Yep I just don't see him leaving for free in a year.

At least one team will be willing to pay what we want for him this summer. Probably more than one.

We're in a great bargaining position, probably better than for any player sale in our history.

RoboCCFC90 said:
I appreciate where you are coming from MMB, but keyword in your reply is "supposedly".

There have been lots of interest for a while, but no concrete offers, only Sporting's offer up until now.

It's early days, of course things may change, Sporting's offer could entice others to make offers, but we don't know that to be the case.

Agree, the ‘supposedly’ is key word and ultimately that interest needs to materialise.

I don’t think we’re in a great position per se, but we’re in a position where multiple teams want our player and therefore, they’re competing with one another rather than our asking price.

To apparently go from a £20m asking price to a £30m asking price suggests that there may be significant interest materialising.

If we got £30m, I’d absolutely have no issues with selling up.

sneferu · Jun 8, 2023

I'd hold out for £30 million. As others have previously mentioned there are plenty of sides needing a striker. I have a feeling Doug will know what he is doing here and play hardball.

I hope we tie Hamer down to a knew contract then build the team around him. We scored many goals on the counter attack in both the previous seasons. It's a simple tactic but very hard for other teams to deal with. Hopefully we can grab two or three rapid strikers with the money from viks sale. Fingers crossed.

Hutch11 · Jun 8, 2023

saveitforthewombles said:
you raise a good point with systems. Robins has adopted multiple over the years - 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 5-3-2, 5-4-1. And switched from possession based to counter attacking more recently. Confident he'll crack the code in terms of players and the right system to play. But they have to replace any outgoings with quality....

Losing CoH and then Palmer meant he had to compensate with a different formation
Great that he's got adaptable players but a massive part of it was having Vik

AOM · Jun 8, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
I disagree, 33 goal involvements for Vik last season is just tremendous, he carried the side through the first half of the season.

The thing with Gyokeres is he also has a big presence in games even if he doesn't get a goal or assist. Something a lot of strikers don't seem to do

Deity · Jun 8, 2023

It’s funny how football works

Hamer was much better second half of the season I think in part due to the injuries to COH and Palmer and then Allen which forced Robins to play him further forward.

not only did his goals and assists improve materially but his bookings dropped as a consequence of not needing to make last ditch tackles as often ….

Even good managers need that little bit of luck sometimes and Robins got that with Hamer I think

clint van damme · Jun 8, 2023

saveitforthewombles said:
you raise a good point with systems. Robins has adopted multiple over the years - 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 5-3-2, 5-4-1. And switched from possession based to counter attacking more recently. Confident he'll crack the code in terms of players and the right system to play. But they have to replace any outgoings with quality....

I have no doubt we'll revert to a possesion based game next season. I think that will suit Godden far more.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jun 8, 2023

Funnily enough, McFadzean said a few months ago that we should strap a 30 million price tag on him. That might have seemed a bit excessive at the time, and him just being a bit typical Fadz, but if he does end up going for circa that then I would say he can have Boddy's job in the boardroom when he's ready to hang up his boots!

shmmeee · Jun 8, 2023

Deity said:
It’s funny how football works

Hamer was much better second half of the season I think in part due to the injuries to COH and Palmer and then Allen which forced Robins to play him further forward.

not only did his goals and assists improve materially but his bookings dropped as a consequence of not needing to make last ditch tackles as often ….

Even good managers need that little bit of luck sometimes and Robins got that with Hamer I think

Actually, happy to be corrected but since his red I don’t think Hamer was booked again until he moved further forwards.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 8, 2023

shmmeee said:
Actually, happy to be corrected but since his red I don’t think Hamer was booked again until he moved further forwards.

I'd also like to know the total goals from midfield during that spell when Allen was knocking them in, and even Palmer and Sheaf got on the scoresheet, as opposed to later on when Palmer and Allen were out, and it seemed it was Hamer getting the goals from midfield, with a solitary one from Eccles. Again, memory can be a funny thing and I can't be arsed so may well be wrong on the stats but... we were arguably more effective as a team when hamer wasn't as far forward regardless of stats!

steve cooper · Jun 8, 2023

RoboCCFC90 said:
To play hardball you've got to be in a good bargaining position and CCFC's position isn't great, especially when City could lose Gyok in six/twelve months time for nothing, if they chose not to sell.

If we are going to sell it needs to be now, take the £15m or whatever it is and reinvest it back into the club. If we don't sell then City have to make sure they get promoted to give themselves the best chance of keeping Gyok (although I don't think that would be enough) or get him tied to a new contract, which his agent suggests won't happen.

They can't lose him for nothing in 6 months. He is contracted to us until the end of next season. It's annoying that people keep saying that.

Danceswithhorses · Jun 8, 2023

steve cooper said:
They can't lose him for nothing in 6 months. He is contracted to us until the end of next season. It's annoying that people keep saying that.

Although we'd have him playing for us for the season, he can sign a pre contract in January, with a foreign team, and we get sod all when his contract ends in the summer.

RoboCCFC90 · Jun 8, 2023

steve cooper said:
They can't lose him for nothing in 6 months. He is contracted to us until the end of next season. It's annoying that people keep saying that.

Gyokeres can sign for a club outside of England from the 1st Jan, on a end of contract agreement. That won’t cost any club outside of England a penny due to Gyokeres’ age. So he can sign for free, although he would see out the remainder of his current contract with CCFC.

steve cooper · Jun 8, 2023

Danceswithhorses said:
Although we'd have him playing for us for the season, he can sign a pre contract in January, with a foreign team, and we get sod all when his contract ends in the summer.

I know that, it's been repeated enough times.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 8, 2023

By this extrapolation nobody bar Chelsea would ever get a fee for a player, as they'd just wait two, three, four years for their contracts to expire.

Balli001 · Jun 8, 2023

steve cooper said:
I know that, it's been repeated enough times.

So we would lose him for nothing then in 12 mnths instead. Still get no money if that happened.

robbiekeane · Jun 8, 2023

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But if you get a lot of clubs interested our position doesn't matter. Those clubs will be looking at the other interested clubs and what they will pay.

Whether he's got 12months or 12 years on his contract, if he joins someone else then he's not your player and if you want him you're going to have to offer more to win the bidding war.

This is correct. Nobody seems to be able to get that into their heads so it’s pointless trying

shmmeee · Jun 8, 2023

How much would you pay for Vik for a season I guess is the question.

robbiekeane · Jun 8, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
By this extrapolation nobody bar Chelsea would ever get a fee for a player, as they'd just wait two, three, four years for their contracts to expire.

Correct. It’s a wonder there are ever any transfer fees for players according to the geniuses on here…why don’t teams always just wait for their contracts to expire

fernandopartridge · Jun 8, 2023

shmmeee said:
How much would you pay for Vik for a season I guess is the question.

I don't think clubs are as long term as that, particularly bottom half premier league sides who have a reasonable chance of being relegated next season

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Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jun 8, 2023

1ccfc said:
It’s easy to say sell him for this or that, but people seem to forget that the three parties all must align (player, selling club and buying club). If one out of the three is on a different page, then the transfer won’t happen. Yes, we might get offered X amount that works for the club, but if Vik doesn’t like the move, he won’t go. With just 12 months left, he might fancy a free transfer with large signing on fee. As we know, he can negotiate from January with European teams, like Diaz did at Blackburn. Until something happens it's all guess work and wishful thinking.

But he would also have to factor in the possibility of getting an injury. And even though he'd no doubt back himself he could hit a run of poor form.

He needs to make the most of his star being in the ascendancy as much as we do.

Legia Sky Blue · Jun 8, 2023

Some people seem to think we are the only losers if Gyokeres stays and sees out his contract. However, it would also be a high risk strategy for both Gyokores himself and any potential buyer. By staying Gyokores will forsake a years higher earnings and take a chance that he doesn't receive an O'Hare type injury which would then severely limit his bargaining position. Any potential buying club meanwhile will be forsaking a years service where Gyokores might be the difference between success and failure, and a manager's job. In a years time Gyokores might also have a different idea of which club he wants to join.

It is ultimately in the interest of ourselves, Gyokores himself, and any buying club to get a deal done this Summer, and for those reasons I'm sure that will be the outcome. In between times we will have lots of fun and games with clubs using media sources to try and drive a fee that suits them as Sporting Lisbon seem to be doing, with lots of to and fro, bluff and counter bluff etc. I expect that as long as Gyokores isn't stuck on only one option, one team will bite the bullet and offer a price that is acceptable and we can all then move on.

Tomh111 · Jun 8, 2023

I genuinely can't decide how Vik would go at the prem level, that's not to say he hasn't deserved a chance to try.

He often takes a lot of touches and gets more space than he would in the prem, which won't suit his game.

I also think we played to him, so anybody in that position would likely score more than a striker in different tactics. However, we did that because of his talent. I'm genuinely not sure on it.

That being said, I would like to see us stick with similar aggressive, direct tactics. Use a chunk of the money from gyok to tie down Gus (Who's more influential imo) and COH to longer deals.

We could look then to replace vik, sign mcnally, panzo and strengthen wingback with the remainder

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jun 8, 2023

Tomh111 said:
I genuinely can't decide how Vik would go at the prem level, that's not to say he hasn't deserved a chance to try.

He often takes a lot of touches and gets more space than he would in the prem, which won't suit his game.

I also think we played to him, so anybody in that position would likely score more than a striker in different tactics. However, we did that because of his talent. I'm genuinely not sure on it.

That being said, I would like to see us stick with similar aggressive, direct tactics. Use a chunk of the money from gyok to tie down Gus (Who's more influential imo) and COH to longer deals.

We could look then to replace vik, sign mcnally, panzo and strengthen wingback with the remainder

Lot of professional scouts seem to disagree with many on here regarding Gyokeres’ ability to play at Premier League level

steve cooper · Jun 8, 2023

Balli001 said:
So we would lose him for nothing then in 12 mnths instead. Still get no money if that happened.

Yes, it makes no difference as you say, which is my point.
People keep bringing up that he could sign a pre-contract in 6 months, but whether he does or not makes no difference.

shmmeee · Jun 8, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
I don't think clubs are as long term as that, particularly bottom half premier league sides who have a reasonable chance of being relegated next season

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Im saying if he wants to stay and see his options out, rather than us forcing him to stay, then what’s he worth to us for another season? Because if it’s more than 70% of what people are offering then we should keep him. Fucks with the whole rebuild idea though.

Tomh111 · Jun 8, 2023

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Lot of professional scouts seem to disagree with many on here regarding Gyokeres’ ability to play at Premier League level

Yeah I can understand why, but I don't think it's clear cut that he is a success.

I want to be proved wrong and could see it, but I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't kick on at a higher level.

Alkhen · Jun 8, 2023

shmmeee said:
Im saying if he wants to stay and see his options out, rather than us forcing him to stay, then what’s he worth to us for another season? Because if it’s more than 70% of what people are offering then we should keep him. Fucks with the whole rebuild idea though.

I get that but I don't know if we'd have a realistic chance of promotion even if we kept hold of Vik (and Gus) next season. Might be negative but with little investment and the apparent strength of the league it would be a huge ask to repeat. Maybe now is the time cash in and build a stronger base, tie a few new player to longer contacts for the next few seasons? Might fluke it but it's a big gamble

pipkin73 · Jun 9, 2023

Tomh111 said:
Yeah I can understand why, but I don't think it's clear cut that he is a success.

I want to be proved wrong and could see it, but I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't kick on at a higher level.

He has had 2 dry spells this season, unfortunately, the last one came at the end of the season.

Both dry spells came when he was playing with an injury as MR said he played the last lot of games playing injured receiving injections to play.

If we had a bigger, better squad he could have rested the last few games and come back firing for the play-offs.
Instead (obviously if we qualified), we relied on Gus to carry us (which he did) whilst hoping Vic would come good.

Fair play to Vic for playing injured and putting the team first but we can't afford the same weak squad next season (to prevent injuries/help players recover from them).

We are at the start of a massive rebuild, we are not a rich club.

We need to sell Vik asap BUT only for the right price.

What price is that? God knows.

I would want 20 million for an early sale, to give us time to spend some of the money and rebuild.

If not an early sale, i would hold out for more (let's face it, we can always approach teams if no one takes up the higher price) we should still get the original lower price offered as not all the teams will have moved on to other players due to a shortage of players like him.

I'm not convinced he will make it as a KEY player at a higher level, but for the money players go for in the Premier League he has to be worth the risk.

As i said, his only dry spells were whilst injured but carried on playing for us with injections and he still created chances for other players.

We won't replace him (i can't think of another player like him we could afford), MR needs to change the system again next season for whatever type of player he manages to sign.

Going to be a long, hard, but exciting summer for us.

PUSB in Robins we have to trust.

JimmyHillsbeard · Jun 9, 2023

That second “dry spell” when he scored and aaaiated vs Bham and managed assists in the semi final and final?

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jun 9, 2023

JimmyHillsbeard said:
That second “dry spell” when he scored and aaaiated vs Bham and managed assists in the semi final and final?

He didn’t score from open play after we beat QPR

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