Half stakes for sale - £4m and £40m (1 Viewer)

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hill83

hill83

Well-Known Member
warwickcccfc said:
So are you saying that SISU aren't robbing bastards??

FFS.....:facepalm:
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What actual profit (money) have they taken away from the club. I want details.

I'm not pro Sisu before people start, but bollocks like this winds me up.
 
W

warwickcccfc

New Member
hill83 said:
What actual profit (money) have they taken away from the club. I want details.

I'm not pro Sisu before people start, but bollocks like this winds me up.
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So would I...

Have they pumped in £40/50m?
Were have any transfer fees gone? Sod all the 'undisclosed' bullshit.

Have SISU taken out funds and just added to the debt?

It isn't bollocks, it's smoke screens and unanswered questions.

If it transpires that SISU have pumped £40/50m of their own money in and taken £0 out, then I will willingly apologise to Timmy and the Gang.
 
hill83

hill83

Well-Known Member
If they have take out more than they have put in they are robbing bastards. Highly doubt that would even be a possibility.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
The £40M price tag is an unatributable estimate by 'Telegraph Sources'.
When asked about the £4M price tag, PKWH declined to comment.

  • In conclusion, this is a story made up from rumour.
  • Reality may well be substantially different.
  • Really, it had better be if CCC want the club to thrive.
 
percy

percy

Member
the councils half might be higher because thay have recently just pumped in 14 million i think. also when they first stumped up the tax payers money, it was done on the proviso that they made some back to plough back into the funds
 
James Smith

James Smith

Well-Known Member
Jack Griffin said:
The £40M price tag is an unatributable estimate by 'Telegraph Sources'.
When asked about the £4M price tag, PKWH declined to comment.

  • In conclusion, this is a story made up from rumour.
  • Reality may well be substantially different.
  • Really, it had better be if CCC want the club to thrive.
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This story sounds like horse manure, why should the Charity set up by Sir Higgs (or his grandad or whoever) to benefit the people of Coventry be out of pocket. Also it would be the lease surely not the freehold that someone would be buying which isn't what I read in the article.
 
rob9872

rob9872

Well-Known Member
I doubt it will be that much out of pocket on the deal taking into account the first 5 years when £1.3m rent pa was received.
 
James Smith

James Smith

Well-Known Member
rob9872 said:
I doubt it will be that much out of pocket on the deal taking into account the first 5 years when £1.3m rent pa was received.
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But I thought that ACL didn't or hadn't paid any dividends/money to the shareholders.
 
L

luwalla

Well-Known Member
percy said:
the councils half might be higher because thay have recently just pumped in 14 million i think. also when they first stumped up the tax payers money, it was done on the proviso that they made some back to plough back into the funds
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thre is another question actually.. what exactly was the 14 million for, that they had to pump in ?? they said it was to pay off the mortgage if i remember correctly.. but if ACL had a mortgage, then does that mean the initial money they were supposed ot have put in, was never actually put in, but just raised against a mortgage ?
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
luwalla said:
thre is another question actually.. what exactly was the 14 million for, that they had to pump in ?? they said it was to pay off the mortgage if i remember correctly.. but if ACL had a mortgage, then does that mean the initial money they were supposed ot have put in, was never actually put in, but just raised against a mortgage ?
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Think they took out a loan from Yorkshire Bank to pay the lease and when YB got a bit worried about the rent situation the council gave them a loan to pay of Yorkshire Bank so to answer your question I don't think ACL put any money in themselves.
 
Paxman II

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
New to me this story but not far off what I have been calling for if true and would be the scenario that SISU wanted and any other investor requires in order to move forward.

I suggest the £40m or so to buy out ACL and Higgs is to regain the lease in whole for the 49 year period (renewable and transferable) of the Ricoh and all it's various operations inclusive of all tenancies held there?
This would be invaluable to the football club providing all revenue streams associated with it. They would have a rent to pay to the freeholders - CCC which would have to be realistic and sustainable while bearing in mind all council cost remaining (any loans they have etc) and reflective of what they have put in and are owed not merely based on the current value of the freehold which they will continue to hold and keep.

The alternative would be an outright purchase of the freehold which would surely be in the £120m plus area.
 
P

psgm1

Banned
I'm just curious - Who gets the money from the council sale of their share? It's not going to the councillors, its going into the pot for the council tax budget. So if your argument is that the council are stealing from the club, then ultimately its the people of coventry robbing coventry city!

In which case its my villa supporting neighbour (ratbag!) :p
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
Paxman II said:
New to me this story but not far off what I have been calling for if true and would be the scenario that SISU wanted and any other investor requires in order to move forward.

I suggest the £40m or so to buy out ACL and Higgs is to regain the lease in whole for the 49 year period (renewable and transferable) of the Ricoh and all it's various operations inclusive of all tenancies held there?
This would be invaluable to the football club providing all revenue streams associated with it. They would have a rent to pay to the freeholders - CCC which would have to be realistic and sustainable while bearing in mind all council cost remaining (any loans they have etc) and reflective of what they have put in and are owed not merely based on the current value of the freehold which they will continue to hold and keep.

The alternative would be an outright purchase of the freehold which would surely be in the £120m plus area.
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Theres only 42 years left on the lease.

Whist accessing the revenue streams would be beneficial for the sake of the FFP, the Ricoh only makes £1m per annum and that's with ccfc paying £1.3m rent. Any owner will need to substantially fund losses, etc to vastly improve the playing squad.
 
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J

Jack Griffin

Guest
stupot you forgot the loan repayments are substantially reduced due to the debt being restructured, so that is why ACL were able to offer CCFC a reduction £400K pa rent and hand back the ~£80K pa F&B profit they take ATM.. that package is worth about £1M pa and one must presume still leaves ACL with a positive cash flow.
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
Jack Griffin said:
stupot you forgot the loan repayments are substantially reduced due to the debt being restructured, so that is why ACL were able to offer CCFC a reduction £400K pa rent and hand back the ~£80K pa F&B profit they take ATM.. that package is worth about £1M pa and one must presume still leaves ACL with a positive cash flow.
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Why would you pay £44m upfront to just get it back £1m per annum? Sounds very expensive to me.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
stupot07 said:
Why would you pay £44m upfront to just get it back £1m per annum? Sounds very expensive to me.
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For heavens sake, no one is gonna compensate the owners of CCFC for their past scew ups. Come visit the real world.
 
S

shropshirecov

New Member
stupot07 said:
Why would you pay £44m upfront to just get it back £1m per annum? Sounds very expensive to me.
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Randy Learner paid 62 million for all of aston villa (including villa park and it's large portfolio of property in north birmingham) nobody is gonna pay the sorts of sums being banded about on here for the ricoh.

Leicester's recent 18 million buy back would seem a bit nearer the mark. Then again, I'm not a council tax payer in Coventry so i've no right to comment.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Jack Griffin said:
For heavens sake, no one is gonna compensate the owners of CCFC for their past scew ups. Come visit the real world.
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What the real world in Doncaster, stoke, Ipswich and hull you mean? Oh and while we are at it Nottingham and Brighton.
 
S

Spencer

New Member
Paxman II said:
New to me this story but not far off what I have been calling for if true and would be the scenario that SISU wanted and any other investor requires in order to move forward.

I suggest the £40m or so to buy out ACL and Higgs is to regain the lease in whole for the 49 year period (renewable and transferable) of the Ricoh and all it's various operations inclusive of all tenancies held there?
This would be invaluable to the football club providing all revenue streams associated with it. They would have a rent to pay to the freeholders - CCC which would have to be realistic and sustainable while bearing in mind all council cost remaining (any loans they have etc) and reflective of what they have put in and are owed not merely based on the current value of the freehold which they will continue to hold and keep.

The alternative would be an outright purchase of the freehold which would surely be in the £120m plus area.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure it would be £120m - a piece of real estate is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it and, I think, the only people that have got that sort of money lying around are people like pension funds and the church that are willing to invest for the very long term.

Most owners of football clubs are, it seems, on ego trips and not looking at the long term rewards.
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
shropshirecov said:
Randy Learner paid 62 million for all of aston villa (including villa park and it's large portfolio of property in north birmingham) nobody is gonna pay the sorts of sums being banded about on here for the ricoh.

Leicester's recent 18 million buy back would seem a bit nearer the mark. Then again, I'm not a council tax payer in Coventry so i've no right to comment.
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Did Lerner get the freehold to all of that property?
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
It could be acceptable business to buy the Higgs shares for £4mio - if indeed that price tag is real and not just made up by a journalist.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
stupot07 said:
£44m is for the Ricoh and nothing to do with ccfc.
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Gotcha, I see where the number is coming from. Check my first post in this thread (9th overall), I've already implied the £40M figure isn't realistic or going to help the club thrive.
 
L

luwalla

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Think they took out a loan from Yorkshire Bank to pay the lease and when YB got a bit worried about the rent situation the council gave them a loan to pay of Yorkshire Bank so to answer your question I don't think ACL put any money in themselves.
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so if they were asking for 40 million, 14 million would go to pay off what their share is actually worth.. and the other36 million is what they want for filling out a bit of mortgage paperwork a few years ago & covering that amount for the last few months ?

im not saying they should make nothing.. but 36 mill seems a bit extreme when you lok at what the higgs are supposedly willing to sell for

so is any new potential owner going to hit the same brick wall.. ie. the council totally taking the P++S !?
 
T

Tonylinc

Well-Known Member
Where has the 4m. for the Higgs share suddenly come from?.....source/link. I thought that they had originally paid something in the region of 10m.
 
Skyblueweeman

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
Tonylinc said:
Where has the 4m. for the Higgs share suddenly come from?.....source/link. I thought that they had originally paid something in the region of 10m.
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Err...check my first post Tony. Albeit, it's in the Telegraph but it says that their share is up for grabs for £4m.

WM
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
Skyblueweeman

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
To be fair Tony, it does say 'Telegraph sources' so it's not definitve proof but I guess the point I was making that for one half of the Ricoh, you pay £4m to a charity and for the other, 10 times that amount to the council.

I'm not too shabby at maths but even if I wasn't, I'd still be able to see that somethings wrong with that....:confused:

WM
 
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