Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I don't think you appreciate that to some your club is just plain not welcome and dressing it up as something other than what it plainly is makes no difference.
Die hard Wasps fan here, but hopefully by now some of you may have seen me post a couple of times trying to smooth the water.
Firstly, the pitch; we have shared football grounds for nearly 20 years, Loftus Rd then Adams Park, if there are "rugby" pitches out there that are ploughed fields we haven't done well on them. By all accounts the surface at the Ricoh ain't great, can't we try and improve it for the benefit of both teams?
Secondly, Franchise; We (all sports fans in the UK) love to sneer at the US Franchises. Fact is the word franchise in the US has come to mean a Professional Sports Team. In English English however a franchise occurs when a company grants someone else the right to use it's brand in a particular area, and take advantage of the parent's "corporate" services. So Wasps is a franchise if you talk American, or if you don't we've just moved.
Lastly (and I might contribute to the conspiracy theories here, but isn't that the point of forums) Derek Richardson; He may be synonymous with Wasps now, but he wasn't until the end of the 2012/13 season he could have been talking to CCC/ACL way before then, but Wasps weren't we were just trying to stay alive.
"Moved" is franchising. Franchising is moving. Dress it up however you want. It was wrong when SISU did it and it's doubly wrong for Wasps as it's permanent.
I didn't dress it up either way. If you think every professional sports team is a franchise, fine you're probably right.
It's not doubly wrong for Wasps though.
It's wrong for me, as my username suggests I don't live anywhere near Coventry.
It's right though for Wasps for exactly the reason that it IS permanent, Wasps haven't had a permanent home in the professional era.
but I don't see it's something worth debating, if you want to call it franchising do so.
I will. As you say it doesn't matter what buzz word you use for the situation. The reality is a team has been picked up and dropped 85 miles from it's previous home and 100 from its natural one. I'm not sure you'd be so wishy washy if SISU decided to move to Wycombe.
Die hard Wasps fan here, but hopefully by now some of you may have seen me post a couple of times trying to smooth the water.
Firstly, the pitch; we have shared football grounds for nearly 20 years, Loftus Rd then Adams Park, if there are "rugby" pitches out there that are ploughed fields we haven't done well on them. By all accounts the surface at the Ricoh ain't great, can't we try and improve it for the benefit of both teams?
Secondly, Franchise; We (all sports fans in the UK) love to sneer at the US Franchises. Fact is the word franchise in the US has come to mean a Professional Sports Team. In English English however a franchise occurs when a company grants someone else the right to use it's brand in a particular area, and take advantage of the parent's "corporate" services. So Wasps is a franchise if you talk American, or if you don't we've just moved.
Lastly (and I might contribute to the conspiracy theories here, but isn't that the point of forums) Derek Richardson; He may be synonymous with Wasps now, but he wasn't until the end of the 2012/13 season he could have been talking to CCC/ACL way before then, but Wasps weren't we were just trying to stay alive.
I didn't dress it up either way. If you think every professional sports team is a franchise, fine you're probably right.
It's not doubly wrong for Wasps though.
It's wrong for me, as my username suggests I don't live anywhere near Coventry.
It's right though for Wasps for exactly the reason that it IS permanent, Wasps haven't had a permanent home in the professional era.
Don't take it personally Sinner there are a few on here that don't understand "I only want to watch my team" not that I'll be watching your team unless you get relegated and Cov promoted. However I don't wish you any ill.
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No offence or anything, but you're not welcome and never will be in Coventry.
The only people that are 'open' to the idea are those whose hatred of the CCFC owners has turned into a hatred for the football club and therefore they love to see them shafted, as had been the case by Wasps purchase of the stadium built for the football club.
ut anger to wasps is pointless and misplaced.
Didn't stop many on here having a go at NTFC and hoping they were relegated, etc. And I'm just about smart enough to use the correct "whether".
No offence or anything, but you're not welcome and never will be in Coventry.
The only people that are 'open' to the idea are those whose hatred of the CCFC owners has turned into a hatred for the football club and therefore they love to see them shafted, as had been the case by Wasps purchase of the stadium built for the football club.
No offence or anything, but you're not welcome and never will be in Coventry.
The only people that are 'open' to the idea are those whose hatred of the CCFC owners has turned into a hatred for the football club and therefore they love to see them shafted, as had been the case by Wasps purchase of the stadium built for the football club.
Totally agree, Wasps moving here is wrong and it can't be dressed up as anything else. I have no idea how anyone could be or claim to be a fan of our club if they are happy about Wasps being the new owners of ACL just to shaft Sisu. I freely admit that I'm no fan of Sisu but the Wasps move hasn't just shafted Sisu it's shafted our club too, the one they're supposed to be fellow supporters of.
but no one is happy about it are they? there is a massive difference though between not being pleased that CCFC can now not buy ACL. and considering ourselves at war with the evil wasps, I think we all know this deal has been bad news for our club in the medium/long term, but we were screwed by sisu, not wasps.
To be fair it is harsh to say as fans they aren't welcome , I assume you mean Wasps as a club?
If their fans want to travel, then fair play to them.
It's not really true, the vast majority are ambivalent, a significant chunk are excited, a very small minority are very angry with wasps. It had nothing to do with them though, weather you completely blame sisu or blame the council and sisu, it had nothing to do with wasps. Nearly all the Coventry fans are upset we can't now own what should be our stadium, but anger to wasps is pointless and misplaced.
Should their fans travels that's the question?
Should their fans travels that's the question?
If they want to. It isn't their fault is it?
I live 200 miles away from where my club plays. That is my choice. Many Wasps supporters now live 100 miles away from where their club will play. Not their choice. I am angry with CCC. I am angry with SISU. I am pissed off that Wasps have got what should have been our home. We are now homeless. I am not going to be happy for Wasps not being homeless after 20 years without having a home. I feel sorry for the Wasps supporters that won't be able to travel so far for each home game. No malice directed at Wasps supporters at all. It isn't their fault that they have ended up in Coventry.
I don't mind if anyone disagrees with my views. But if you do I hope that you would be happy if our clubs owners in the future manage to buy a stadium on the cheap that is 100 miles away from Coventry. After all we wouldn't be homeless anymore.
No offence or anything, but you're not welcome and never will be in Coventry.
The only people that are 'open' to the idea are those whose hatred of the CCFC owners has turned into a hatred for the football club and therefore they love to see them shafted, as had been the case by Wasps purchase of the stadium built for the football club.
Disagree. Had Sisu actually bought the Ricoh, "We" would not necessarily be any the better for it. Once again somebody falls into the trap of thinking Sisu "are" the club, and will always act in it's best interests.Totally agree, Wasps moving here is wrong and it can't be dressed up as anything else. I have no idea how anyone could be or claim to be a fan of our club if they are happy about Wasps being the new owners of ACL just to shaft Sisu. I freely admit that I'm no fan of Sisu but the Wasps move hasn't just shafted Sisu it's shafted our club too, the one they're supposed to be fellow supporters of.
Should their fans travels that's the question?
Disagree. Had Sisu actually bought the Ricoh, "We" would not necessarily be any the better for it. Once again somebody falls into the trap of thinking Sisu "are" the club, and will always act in it's best interests.
If our club was a movie character, we'd be the child from the Exorcist. Until we are rid of the owners, things will never change for the better.
Nick Eastwood: I think the majority will this year. After the summer probably around half as ST. The rest may go to half STs or lower (about Wasp season ticket holders)
I didn't dress it up either way. If you think every professional sports team is a franchise, fine you're probably right.
It's not doubly wrong for Wasps though.
It's wrong for me, as my username suggests I don't live anywhere near Coventry.
It's right though for Wasps for exactly the reason that it IS permanent, Wasps haven't had a permanent home in the professional era.
This Wasps fan certainly doesn't see the move to Coventry as right...
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/09/wasps-coventry-move-london-fans-rugby-union
You might not have had a permanent home, but then I'm guessing that's true for a lot of rugby clubs. More than a few football teams too. You were though undisputably a London club - even your current owner admitted that at the point he bought you. Now you're 100 miles away.
As for the use of the term 'franchise', I can't see what the dispute is. Your owner has bought your brand, and your position in the league, and moved it to another location. (Disenfranchising a number of your current fans to reverse the word!)
And there's actually no guarantee that it's permanent - if it doesn't work out in Coventry and there's an opening back in London do you think for a moment that your owners would choose loyalty to our town over cold, hard cash? Clearly not. That's the nature of franchises, and it's why most fans are absolutely against the concept.
I've nothing personal against Wasps fans, or you SFP. You're clearly a decent chap, as I don't doubt are all Wasps fans. However, I do sincerely hope that the franchise fails and Wasps go back south.
I've got two reasons for this - one is that I honestly think that franchising is morally wrong, and the second is that I think it would be far better for CCFC's long term aims if you weren't here. Forgive me.
What I am saying is there is also the misapprehension that Sisu would sell club and stadia on had they acquired both.Even when they are gone it won't get any better. No one is going to want to buy the club anyway now, especially without a ground, or any prospect of ever having one. We will forever be a yo-yo team between league 1 and league 2 now, surviving on pathetic ticket sales alone. Still, as long as sisu got shafted then who cares about anything else!
Originally Posted by Sinner from Pinner
I didn't dress it up either way. If you think every professional sports team is a franchise, fine you're probably right.
It's not doubly wrong for Wasps though.
It's wrong for me, as my username suggests I don't live anywhere near Coventry.
It's right though for Wasps for exactly the reason that it IS permanent, Wasps haven't had a permanent home in the professional era.
This Wasps fan certainly doesn't see the move to Coventry as right...
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/201...ns-rugby-union
You might not have had a permanent home, but then I'm guessing that's true for a lot of rugby clubs. More than a few football teams too. You were though undisputably a London club - even your current owner admitted that at the point he bought you. Now you're 100 miles away.
As for the use of the term 'franchise', I can't see what the dispute is. Your owner has bought your brand, and your position in the league, and moved it to another location. (Disenfranchising a number of your current fans to reverse the word!)
And there's actually no guarantee that it's permanent - if it doesn't work out in Coventry and there's an opening back in London do you think for a moment that your owners would choose loyalty to our town over cold, hard cash? Clearly not. That's the nature of franchises, and it's why most fans are absolutely against the concept.
I've nothing personal against Wasps fans, or you SFP. You're clearly a decent chap, as I don't doubt are all Wasps fans. However, I do sincerely hope that the franchise fails and Wasps go back south.
I've got two reasons for this - one is that I honestly think that franchising is morally wrong, and the second is that I think it would be far better for CCFC's long term aims if you weren't here. Forgive me.
I think we are looking at things from different perspectives and we are talking about Rugby football and Football. One is far bigger than the other and they operate differently tbf.
I doubt you would see a football club do what WASP have done and moreover since the Wimbledon/MK Dons saga that loop hole has been closed up. So we would not have CCFC playing in any new stadium in say, London.
It's different for WASP. Clearly being based in a large city like Coventry, over time they will of course be trading their very own support from one base to the new base. They will succeed in that I'm sure and be a very successful Rugby club here. Good luck to them I bear no anger towards them.
What I suggest most people are angry about is the way the shenanigans went on behind the scenes and we ended up with CCFC losing any right to ownership of 'their' stadium. That can't be right can it? Yes the current owners, referred commonly as SISU did not help their cause one bit but the council really did put the boot in where it hurt by completing a deal they did not bring to the football clubs table, either to SISU or even other interested parties that could have had influence in the proceedings, ensuring transparency.
Those could have been the likes of Elliot, who had approached the council and ACL previously with Hoffman to try and wrench the club from SISU's hand.
The council acted without due care and a thorough thought process. If they simply hanged their hat on the fact WASP will and have promised the need for CCFC to remain a tenant, then they were not listening to repeated commands that the football club needs to own it's stadium and income streams for sustainability?
JS bemoaned the 'freehold' concept was required but if you are offering a 250 year lease then that is virtually of an equal level for the purposes that CCFC needed. It was therefore crucial this information should have been shared, before any thought of accepting a Rugby club from elsewhere to displace the communities 125 year old football club from their home.
Unless someone knows different to those facts then I will remain angry as hell with the council dim wits that helped bring this about. For those that simply blame SISU for all our ills you are not wrong but on this one they can't be blamed for something they had no knowledge of or given a chance to participate in that process.
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