Have I missed an academy update? (1 Viewer)

[skybluetony176]

CSF and Wasps haven't really given anything away. They just keep saying things like "our door is open".

Like I said, it is all about the PR isn't it and how things "look".

There has obviously been some sort of contact / communication as he has sent over a schedule of what is used and when hasn't he? Why the reluctance do discuss things where things can be proven?

Ask Chris Anderson. The academy is his responsibility but yet he's reluctant to go and talk to the people HE needs to go and talk to about it. Odd behaviour for someone who is apparently doing all he can to save it wouldn't you agree?

 

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[chiefdave]

I think that's his plan" armybike

Lets assume thats the plan. What is the benefit?

At the moment the club put in £500K and get a grant for the same. So they get a £1m academy for £500K.

The players that have been sold in recent years have bought in more than the £500K being put in. Its probably the only part of the club making a profit.

Even ignoring the player sales if we no longer have an academy we now need to find more players for the first team squad. Where are they coming from? Young players will mean paying compensation, older players will mean higher wages.

I'm struggling to see how closing the academy saves SISU, who aren't currently putting any money into the club, anything.

 

[Brylowes]

Yes but what you miss is that all of the improved rent deals had conditions on them didn't they?

The main condition being:
We wouldn't have left, and wouldn't be going through any of this shite now.
Yep really glad they held their nerve, just think of the problems we might be
Facing now if we hadn't moved.:vomit:

 

[Grendel]

If the club were closing the Acadamy the average fan wouldn't care so if that was the case the club could just say that.

 

[Nick]

The main condition being:
We wouldn't have left, and wouldn't be going through any of this shite now.
Yep really glad they held their nerve, just think of the problems we might be
Facing now if we hadn't moved.:vomit:

I mean the conditions like the offer only being valid while we were in admin and things like that. They all had small print didnt they where it turned out they weren't actually good offers?

The same as the "come and buy the higgs share" pr stuff that was there to look helpful, realistically it wasn't possible as the council had already extended the lease for Wasps and it was always agreed as 100%.

 

[Brylowes]

Lets assume thats the plan. What is the benefit?

At the moment the club put in £500K and get a grant for the same. So they get a £1m academy for £500K.

The players that have been sold in recent years have bought in more than the £500K being put in. Its probably the only part of the club making a profit.

Even ignoring the player sales if we no longer have an academy we now need to find more players for the first team squad. Where are they coming from? Young players will mean paying compensation, older players will mean higher wages.

I'm struggling to see how closing the academy saves SISU, who aren't currently putting any money into the club, anything.

They only ever think short term the £500.000 they put in is real, anything they
Get out is a maybe.

 

[Grendel]

They only ever think short term the £500.000 they put in is real, anything they
Get out is a maybe.

The club puts it in.

 

[skybluetony176]

Hey Nick. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny. Should I email B & Q my list of requirements and if they don't email me back should I

A) sit around moping say woe me woe me while the grass grows under my feet?

Or

B) grow the fuck up, get of my arse and provocatively go out and buy a new lawnmower?

Seriously though. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny.

 

[Grendel]

Hey Nick. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny. Should I email B & Q my list of requirements and if they don't email me back should I

A) sit around moping say woe me woe me while the grass grows under my feet?

Or

B) grow the fuck up, get of my arse and provocatively go out and buy a new lawnmower?

Seriously though. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny.

I've always bought lawn mowers on line.

 

[skybluetony176]

Lets assume thats the plan. What is the benefit?

At the moment the club put in £500K and get a grant for the same. So they get a £1m academy for £500K.

The players that have been sold in recent years have bought in more than the £500K being put in. Its probably the only part of the club making a profit.

Even ignoring the player sales if we no longer have an academy we now need to find more players for the first team squad. Where are they coming from? Young players will mean paying compensation, older players will mean higher wages.

I'm struggling to see how closing the academy saves SISU, who aren't currently putting any money into the club, anything.

You're assuming though that local boys like Wilson and Maddison wouldn't have come through the academy if we didn't have Cat 2 status. That's the unknown quantity here and it's becoming very apparent that that is a gamble SISU are willing to take in making the club as streamline and less time consuming for them as possible.

It involves a lot of time and effort to run the academy as well as the £500k every year and as we've seen from franchising of the shop, programs and tickets it's not just money that SISU don't want to spend on the club it's time and effort also. So losing the Cat 2 status is a gamble worth taking for them and it fits with their recent MO perfectly.

 

[stupot07]

A cat 3 academy would still costs us around £300k with a c£150k fa contribution, so we wouldnt save £500k anyway.

Whilst you can't say maddison or Wilson may have not come through its safe to say had we not had a decent academy/Cat 2 we wouldnt have consistently produced as many academy players good enough to supplement the first team. There is as big difference in coaching/contact time between cat 2 and cat 3. That's what makes the difference. That's been backed up by our rating which includes the productivity of players as part of its assessment.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Brylowes]

I mean the conditions like the offer only being valid while we were in admin and things like that. They all had small print didnt they where it turned out they weren't actually good offers?

The same as the "come and buy the higgs share" pr stuff that was there to look helpful, realistically it wasn't possible as the council had already extended the lease for Wasps and it was always agreed as 100%.

When wasps came along all good will had gone, we were never going to be considered then.
Once we moved out we were vulnerable to someone else coming in, ridiculous move that
Ultimately sealed the fate of our club, barring miracles we are finished.
Yet you still defend them at every turn.
The c**t has the bad manners and "worse" bad business ethics that he can't even turn up
to a prearranged meeting. And you won't even condemn him for that.
I give up.

 

[skybluetony176]

I've always bought lawn mowers on line.

I've checked eBay and amazon and there's no facilities to run a cat 2 academy on either. Oh well, I'll just have to get off my arse and go and see people who do have those facilities.

 

[Brylowes]

The club puts it in.

That's what I said !

 

[Grendel]

I've checked eBay and amazon and there's no facilities to run a cat 2 academy on either. Oh well, I'll just have to get off my arse and go and see people who do have those facilities.

It was your shit analogy not mine.

 

[Nick]

You're assuming though that local boys like Wilson and Maddison wouldn't have come through the academy if we didn't have Cat 2 status. That's the unknown quantity here and it's becoming very apparent that that is a gamble SISU are willing to take in making the club as streamline and less time consuming for them as possible.

It involves a lot of time and effort to run the academy as well as the £500k every year and as we've seen from franchising of the shop, programs and tickets it's not just money that SISU don't want to spend on the club it's time and effort also. So losing the Cat 2 status is a gamble worth taking for them and it fits with their recent MO perfectly.

But what I don't get is if it is bang on CCFC want to shut it down (it could well be), then why haven't CSF / Wasps done a letter and put everything in writing as requested. It is as if CA is trying to call their bluff on it the way he keeps going on about it, the moment they actually do it there is a massive double bluff isn't it?

It would help their PR also, although by the looks of it they are doing a good enough job as you haven't mentioned boycotting them since..

 

[ccfcway]

Hey Nick. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny. Should I email B & Q my list of requirements and if they don't email me back should I

A) sit around moping say woe me woe me while the grass grows under my feet?

Or

B) grow the fuck up, get of my arse and provocatively go out and buy a new lawnmower?

Seriously though. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny.

i'd take b&q to court, then moan that they did let you use you pensioner discount on Wednesdays

 

[Nick]

Hey Nick. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny. Should I email B & Q my list of requirements and if they don't email me back should I

A) sit around moping say woe me woe me while the grass grows under my feet?

Or

B) grow the fuck up, get of my arse and provocatively go out and buy a new lawnmower?

Seriously though. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny.

Bit of a rubbish analogy though isn't it?

 

[ccfcway]

But what I don't get is if it is bang on CCFC want to shut it down (it could well be), then why haven't CSF / Wasps done a letter and put everything in writing as requested

one didn't turn up to a meeting and the other hasn't sent an email

one has an academy to lose, the other doesn't

 

[Grendel]

i'd take b&q to court, then moan that they did let you use you pensioner discount on Wednesdays

And no doubt need a face to face meeting

 

[Nick]

When wasps came along all good will had gone, we were never going to be considered then.
Once we moved out we were vulnerable to someone else coming in, ridiculous move that
Ultimately sealed the fate of our club, barring miracles we are finished.
Yet you still defend them at every turn.
The c**t has the bad manners and "worse" bad business ethics that he can't even turn up
to a prearranged meeting. And you won't even condemn him for that.
I give up.

I have condemned him, but instead of being shouty shouty I would like to figure out why. The same as why CSF / Wasps won't send anything over in writing and just whisper things for the Trust to put out there for them.

 

[Grendel]

because the onus isn't on them.

Who is the customer in this proposed relationship?

 

[skybluetony176]

A cat 3 academy would still costs us around £300k with a c£150k fa contribution, so we wouldnt save £500k anyway.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Would we need all the staff we need now? I doubt it. There's another overhead cut in terms of money and time and effort. Would we need to find all the facilities we need to find now? Again I doubt it. So yet again more savings in time, effort and money. We would save much more than £200k going by your figures, lose £350k in funding again by your figures.

The crucial thing is the time and effort. That's the investment they don't seem want to make as much as anything. Hence the franchising. Gavin Strachan might end up doing alright out of this though. If they're going to franchise out the academy he'd be the obvious choice.

 

[ccfcway]

Who is the customer in this proposed relationship?

whos need is greater in this relationship ?

 

[skybluetony176]

i'd take b&q to court, then moan that they did let you use you pensioner discount on Wednesdays

I wouldn't blame them on the latter as I'm 43. But I might play the victim anyway.

 

[skybluetony176]

Bit of a rubbish analogy though isn't it?

No worse than your computer one

 

[stupot07]

Double post.

 

[stupot07]

Would we need all the staff we need now? I doubt it. There's another overhead cut in terms of money and time and effort. Would we need to find all the facilities we need to find now? Again I doubt it. So yet again more savings in time, effort and money. We would save much more than £200k going by your figures, lose £350k in funding again by your figures.

The crucial thing is the time and effort. That's the investment they don't seem want to make as much as anything. Hence the franchising. Gavin Strachan might end up doing alright out of this though. If they're going to franchise out the academy he'd be the obvious choice.

I've read it somewhere - a cat 3 costs between £150-300k on top of the the £150k grant - the recommended total spend of a cat 3 is around £500k pa. Given the commitment we have to young players its very likely we would be at the top end. Yes overhead would reduce but then again to total budget will have halved from the £1.1m a cat 2 costs.

The bottom line is, the club won't save £500k from running the academy, and long term it will end up costing more by signing players to supplement the first team.


Found it, the min is £315k however a club of our size and in league one will be on the higher side, we're already spending the max on a cat 2.

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[armybike]

I have condemned him, but instead of being shouty shouty I would like to figure out why.

Do you think Anderson should have gone to the meeting even without the requested information having been provided?

 

[Nick]

Do you think Anderson should have gone to the meeting even without the requested information having been provided?

I would have gone, and just said nothing gets talked about until it is in writing or a copy is handed over to take away with me.

That way nothing gets spun or twisted.

 

[Brylowes]

Hey Nick. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny. Should I email B & Q my list of requirements and if they don't email me back should I

A) sit around moping say woe me woe me while the grass grows under my feet?

Or

B) grow the fuck up, get of my arse and provocatively go out and buy a new lawnmower?

Seriously though. My lawnmower has just gone up the swanny.

I've got a cement mixer you can hire.
If you've had enough of grass

 

[skybluetony176]

Double post.

I really don't think its the money that's the issue for our owners. It's the involvement. There time and energy is better off from their perspective in other investments. Hence the streamlining. They have less overheads and less investment in every meaning of the word in a failed project that they have lost interest in. That's the basis of it as I see it.

 

[rupert_bear]

Going to be interesting this time next year when CA starts negotiating where we will play our home games on two seasons time.

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

If i want buy something i go to see the person who is selling it I tell them MY requirement, they tell me what they can give me , i say yes or no but i have to be prepared to do the A turn up B tell them MY requirements If i dont turn up nothing happens I would expect him to make an apppointment as soon a possible and do a bit of grovveling (something they dont do) but it's us that wants (or maybe not) not anybody else.

 

[Brylowes]

I have condemned him, but instead of being shouty shouty I would like to figure out why. The same as why CSF / Wasps won't send anything over in writing and just whisper things for the Trust to put out there for them.

If he had turned up.
Would they be whispering to the trust,