Hillsborough fans unlawfully killed (3 Viewers)

[Macca]

so the fact that hooliganism caused fences to be erected means police incompetence and the ensuing cover up were justified.

What a simple world you live in.

No old chap you indulged in some lazy reading of my offerings on the subject and made the rest up. Have a read through again

 

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[Moff]

Duckinfield himself admitted to the investigation that he'd lied in his earlier account where he'd stated that fans forced the gates open.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-31821211

I hope he's convicted and gets a spell in jail, hopefully an uncomfortable one too for a 'man' of his age.

To be fair Fernando, whilst Duckenfield should never have lied, they should also be looking further up the chain of command at the time, for putting the job in the hands of someone ill trained and equipped for such an event.

As I said before the Home Office and FA also have a lot to answer for. It should never have been held at a ground that didnt have the correct safety certificate and where the terrace capacity was also grossly exagerated.

 

[clint van damme]

No old chap you indulged in some lazy reading of my offerings on the subject and made the rest up. Have a read through again

It was a six word post, not exactly a polemic.

 

[Macca]

Indeed, from which you drew a hugely inaccurate conclusion.

 

[Otis]

A bit like the Hillsborough initial aftermath then?

 

[chiefdave]

The National Association Of Retired Police Officers accidentally made their statement to their members public.

 

[Covstu]

Bit more than a bad day!!!

 

[no_loyalty]

Cover up a disgrace and police clearly at fault, should be held accountable. The only thing I cant understand is that the fans have been completely exonerated. Awful decision to open the gate, bad stadium design and horrible set of circumstances, but fans all pushing outside some without tickets, will surely have had some bearing on that.

Hopefully closure now for the families and their unwavering efforts. Will Kelvin McKenzie now apologise?

Didn't the 1000's of Liverpool fans that were pushing not have tickets, and simply overpowered the police into opening the gate?

 

[chiefdave]

Didn't the 1000's of Liverpool fans that were pushing not have tickets, and simply overpowered the police into opening the gate?

There's no evidence to suggest that there was a large number of fans without tickets. In fact Liverpool still had tickets available the day before the game so its not like there would be thousands of people who hadn't been able to get one.

Also when they examined the video footage they worked out that the total numbers were below the allowed capacity.

 

[no_loyalty]

There's no evidence to suggest that there was a large number of fans without tickets. In fact Liverpool still had tickets available the day before the game so its not like there would be thousands of people who hadn't been able to get one.

Also when they examined the video footage they worked out that the total numbers were below the allowed capacity.

Fair enough Dave, I just knew Liverpool fans were renown for turning up fairly late to games without tickets, I remember scenes at Wembley in the early 80's when Liverpool fans were climbing up lowered down flags to get into the stadium

 

[RegTheDonk]

A rightful verdict, but sadly this was Football Policing in the 80's, poorly run, little training and poepl like Duckenfield who wasnt up to the task in charge.

Aside from the fact Duckenfiled and those above were incompetent, the FA are complicit in allowing the game to be at a stadium that wasnt up to it, whilst the Government who guide the Police a lot on what they should be doing, were obvioulsy happy to sit back and let Football Policing continue in that fashion without thought for the consequences.

This is more than about one mans ill judged actions, (although his controlling over the whole situation led to such tragic events) there should be thought into why wasnt he properly trained, where was the contingency planning, why wasnt the operation better planned etc, this goes well over and above Duckenfield to both the top echelons of South Yorkshire Police, the FA and the Home Office.

Leaving aside the circumstances and the idea that ticket less fans contributed to the crush outside, I fully support the decision reached that the command decisions taken by the police were wrong. I also agree that subsequent lying and a certain amount of covering up was done.

Whats worrying about what you've said above Moff is Duckefield seems out of his depth, despite the obvious training and experience he would have had as a long servicing officer...now it seems the police are employing high flyers from the private sector, and starting them off as coppers at Superintendent rank. I would seriously hope that any silver commander, put in charge of a football match, an EDL march, or whatever incident requires the safety of large members of the public being paramount, has a good grasp of public order tactics. Seems a cost saving exercise that could have serious consequences.

 

[Samo]

my thorough admiration and respect to the families and their supporters who have campaigned for so long against lies, smears and collusion while trying to find the truth of what happened to their loved ones.

I hope this verdict helps them find some closure.

Whatever you think of LFC, (and personally I can't stand the club), it could have been any set of fans that this happened to and the authorities would have behaved the same because working class football supporters are vermin in their eyes.

And it nearly was... us! 2 years previously on the same terrace, I was there.

 

[Moff]

Leaving aside the circumstances and the idea that ticket less fans contributed to the crush outside, I fully support the decision reached that the command decisions taken by the police were wrong. I also agree that subsequent lying and a certain amount of covering up was done.

Whats worrying about what you've said above Moff is Duckefield seems out of his depth, despite the obvious training and experience he would have had as a long servicing officer...now it seems the police are employing high flyers from the private sector, and starting them off as coppers at Superintendent rank. I would seriously hope that any silver commander, put in charge of a football match, an EDL march, or whatever incident requires the safety of large members of the public being paramount, has a good grasp of public order tactics. Seems a cost saving exercise that could have serious consequences.

Very good point reg, I totally agree.

 

[chiefdave]

Excellent piece from David Conn
http://www.theguardian.com/football...-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades

 

[Houchens Head]

dont talk wet

Aimed at????

 

[Pipehitterz]

Aimed at????

you obviously
jeez i thought you were slow, but woah

 

[Gazolba]

What came first, hooliganism or fences?

Well when I see a fence, I don't suddenly turn into a hooligan. I usually think "why is that fence there?". But I'm not sure hooligans 'think', they just instinctively act.

 

[Gazolba]

What the police did may have been wrong but could they reasonably have predicted what would happen as a result of it? Would their actions or inactions have been considered reasonable or unreasonable at that time and not now in hindsight? I don't know, but I don't think you can apply today's standards to a time in the past, you have to look at the standards back then.

 

[M&B Stand]

What the police did may have been wrong but could they reasonably have predicted what would happen as a result of it? Would their actions or inactions have been considered reasonable or unreasonable at that time and not now in hindsight? I don't know, but I don't think you can apply today's standards to a time in the past, you have to look at the standards back then.

I think it's more the cover up after.

 

[Houchens Head]

you obviously
jeez i thought you were slow, but woah

And why would I be "talking wet"? Are you a paedo lover pal?

 

[Pipehitterz]

And why would I be "talking wet"? Are you a paedo lover pal?

you my friend are vile, if i ever met you, i would give you a slap for suggesting that of anyone , let alone being so personal

 

[chiefdave]

What the police did may have been wrong but could they reasonably have predicted what would happen as a result of it?

I think they could. There had been crushes before and the police plan implemented on the day forced a large number of Liverpool fans through the Leppings Lane bottleneck with over 10K fans needing to get through 7 turnstiles.

The Chief Constable, Wright, replaced the Chief Superintendent who had years of experience policing Hillsborough with Duckenfield 19 days before the match. Duckenfeld hadn't even been involved in policing a match for over 10 years let alone being in charge. He signed off the days plan before he'd even been to the ground and has admitted he was not familiar with the grounds layout or capacities.

The biggest issue was that once through the turnstiles there was a tunnel to the two central pens. This was usually blocked off by police and stewards when at capacity and fans directed to the side pens. This didn't happen so fans came through the turnstiles and saw a sign for standing went through the tunnel and had nowhere to go.

 

[Houchens Head]

you my friend are vile, if i ever met you, i would give you a slap for suggesting that of anyone , let alone being so personal

And you pal are a c**t, and I would love you to even TRY to give me a slap! Now fuck off under a rock!

 

[Pipehitterz]

And you pal are a c**t, and I would love you to even TRY to give me a slap! Now fuck off under a rock!

careful, at your age youll get a heartattack
obsessed by kiddie fiddlers weirdo

 

[Houchens Head]

careful, at your age youll get a heartattack
obsessed by kiddie fiddlers weirdo

At my age? And how do you know my age unless you've been trolling me?
You're the one that's obsessed you fuckin' weirdo! Oh, and heart attacks? I've had three, pal. I'm used to them!

 

[Sick Boy]

I think it's more the cover up after.

...and the demonisation of a group of people that still exists to a certain extent today. It should also make us think what else has been covered up by those at the top of society....the Savile case being a prime example.

 

[Houchens Head]

Thank you Sick Boy. This is what I was getting at in my post at #32. Then some twat called pipeshitz told me I was talking wet! What a twat he is!

 

[Pipehitterz]

Thank you Sick Boy. This is what I was getting at in my post at #32. Then some twat called pipeshitz told me I was talking wet! What a twat he is!

Stop embarrassing yourself Mate.
You likened the situation to kiddie fiddler's.

You were and are talking wet .

Disgusting to bring a tragic event to those vile creatures .
They shouldn't have been mentioned in the same breath, what the hell were you thinking.

From then on you just completely lost your shit and became a MORON.
At your age too, you should look at yourself Mate.

 

[ccfctommy]

Oh, and heart attacks? I've had three, pal. I'm used to them!

:laugh:

 

[wingy]

Did anyone see the tribute before the Everton game.
Absolute class!

 

[Pipehitterz]

At my age? And how do you know my age unless you've been trolling me?
You're the one that's obsessed you fuckin' weirdo! Oh, and heart attacks? I've had three, pal. I'm used to them!

all the more reason to stop publicly embarressing yourself

 

[Houchens Head]

all the more reason to stop publicly embarressing yourself

:jerkit:

 

[oldskyblue58]

Watched the BBC 2 program "Hillsborough" last night

Shocking, heart rending and very moving

 

[ajsccfc]

The worst part was the mum who wasn't allowed to hug her son's body because 'he belongs to the coroner now'.

 

[oldskyblue58]

The worst part was the mum who wasn't allowed to hug her son's body because 'he belongs to the coroner now'.

The damage those in charge did was unbelievable. Where was the compassion or humanity in saying that to her