Holding Wasps to Account (3 Viewers)

withnail said:

Do London Wasps get the takings from food and drink bought at the Ricoh onCov match days?
I need to know once and for all.
I really fancied a pint before the game yesterday but then I thought London Wasps are likely to pocket the profit so I gave it a miss and took that injury time kick in the balls stone cold sober.

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withnail said:

Do London Wasps get the takings from food and drink bought at the Ricoh onCov match days?
I need to know once and for all.
I really fancied a pint before the game yesterday but then I thought London Wasps are likely to pocket the profit so I gave it a miss and took that injury time kick in the balls stone cold sober.

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Skybluesince82 said:

I've posted on another thread about Wasps and the pies - a short sharp 'no comment' on pie-gate which to me just isn't good enough.

Just read on twitter (not sure how to post screen shots on here) Gilbert of CT fame with a quick exchange where he was asked if CT could ask Wasps about if a long-term Ricoh agreement could be developed.
His response was 'We have. They say it's not a priority for them at the moment. Previously pointed to legal action from Sisu.'

Is it just me, or is that just a let off for Wasps/ ACL (again)? Where is the scrutiny? Where is the 'investigative' journalism in the public interest that the CT keep banging on about?

I'm sure when the Ricoh deal was done somewhere it said 'it can't be to the detriment of ccfc'. Obviously that is laughable, but why is there no follow up to Wasps not having any interest in negotiations? How has it got to the fact that the football club has no home in 18 months and discussions 'aren't a priority' for wasps? Don't get me wrong, I know our owners have alienated everyone, but wasps just seem to say 'we aren't interested' or 'no comment' and that's it - end of story.

It's a rhetorical question, I know why the CT don't challenge wasps/ ACL but what do we do, just lie down and take this blatant onesidedness? How can the CT not push this any further, yet deem it newsworthy enough to highlight that CCFC have expensive pies and programmes?!!

I'm far from a Gilbert fan, as many aren't on here, but he doesn't seem to do himself many favours by coming across as so one-sided, or is this just me getting wound up by it??

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Grendel said:

As I understand it a long term deal has been offered.

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italiahorse said:

Problem over then ?

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dongonzalos said:

We are about to sue the council over its sale to Wasps. With Wasps named as an interested party.
They said they would talk when all the legal action was out if the way.
Our owners moved us to another town and attempted to break ACL as a company to get it cheap (according to a high court judge).
As s result ACL was sold to someone else. Our owners did not like that and are now taking legal action that Wasps have waste time and money on (yes I know the action is against the council)
Wasps will still need to pay lawyers to look at it all and see how they are affected.
So we can hardly on the other hand expect Wasps to negotiate with us and not try and use that as an opportunity to save everyone time and money including themselves.
Getting lawyers to look after pointless legal action.
I don't blame Wasps (sorry)
Our owners should ask to negotiate a deal and if they get one agreed in signing it they drop the legal action.

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Grendel said:

Suggestions are a deal has been offered

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dongonzalos said:

Why are neither side saying a deal was offered?

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fernandopartridge said:

In my perfect ideal I would love CCFC to find:

- new owners
- a suitable site as close as possible to the City Centre for the stadium
- a suitable site for a training ground / academy
- once the above are achieved, CCFC will blow Wasps away with them hopefully going bust and the Ricoh becoming derelict (and I'm not bothered about Wasps fans, the new ones particularly but then the old ones who embraced their move I hold in contempt)

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fernandopartridge said:

The people of Coventry not really that bothered are they? Coventry is one of the most apathetic places in the country (election turnouts and constantly returning hopeless councillors and MPs show you that).

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CJ_covblaze said:

They only got involved due to the incompetence of the former owners

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italiahorse said:

15% Wasps (£75K/annum) and 15% CCFC (£75K) and 60% Compass

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CJ_covblaze said:

Some say "all sides need bringing to account for the mess we are in". These include Coventry City Council, SISU, Higgs Trust, Wasps, previous club directors/directors, the Football League, I think thats all of them!

Personally I think there are only three of those that actually matter at this moment. SISU, Wasps and the FL. The rest are irrelevant as they can't make a difference any more. The rest of those that are responsible are either retired, have left office or are dead.

Rightly or wrongly the Council sold the stadium that they and other partners built for Coventry City to a nomadic Rugby Club. Yes they own the freehold to the Ricoh but that is a side note really given the long lease. Any land that SISU could build this mythical stadium on within the city of Coventry is either not suitable or earmarked for housing. They no longer have any part to play and almost all of those that had a significant involvement before or during the decision to sell the Ricoh fall into the categories I've listed above.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? No.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? None of any note.

The Higgs Trust I feel have been dragged into this mess when they didn't really want to be a part of it in the first place. They only got involved due to the incompetence of the former owners and were only involved in recent years due to the stubbornness and shoddy ownership of the current owners.
Do they share some of the blame? No
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? No.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? None of any note.

Previous owners/directors of our club such as Pointon, Richardson, McGinnity and Robinson are a major reason why we are where we are. At some point some of their hearts may have been in the right place and may have even lost a few quid along the way but between them they sowed the seeds that SISU are harvesting now. From the transfers and the money made from them to the sale of our home along with the complete balls up of timescales and management during that sale, it was incompetence of the highest level. Also a special mention has to go to some of those that have been here in the SISU years such as Clouting, Igwe, Brody, Delieu & Labovitch. They're all culpable. They made poor decision after poor decision and we'd be in a far better place if they were never involved. However all of the above are now in one of the three categories I listed above.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? No.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? None of any note.

The current owners/directors, SISU, Joy, Dermot and Tim are the main reason why we are where we are. They took us to Northampton. They had 7 years to buy the Ricoh but didn't. They had 8 years to secure the academies future but didn't. They've got us relegated to the third tier and not looks likely we'll drop even further in the immediate future. They did ok for a year or so putting an adequate team on the pitch. Maybe that was luck rather than judgement or more likely down to having people involved that knew how to run a football club. Soon enough though it all went tits when up the people who knew what they were doing left and the individuals listed under the "previous directors" jumped on board one by one and found the nearest iceberg to head towards.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? Yes.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? To be forced to sell (whether this is a punishment or a favour to them it is up for debate)

To give Wasps credit they saw an opportunity to better themselves, achieved it and have done their best to bed into the community. Whether they were right or wrong to do so is up for debate. I can not stand franchising, the likes of Red Bull are in my opinion the only thing worse than the likes of SISU, Oyston, Cellino, Roland, Allam, Venkys, etc. Rugby Union clubs do have a history of moving around every so often. It's different to football. Does that make it right? I'll leave it there! Let's deal with facts not opinion. They own (or hold a very long lease on) our stadium and soon the current site of our academy. They do hold a lot of the cards. The pressure should be on them from our fans to help keep our club in our city and it's academy at the same level it is at now. Ultimately it's for them to decide if they want to deal with SISU. Would you? However it's fair to say that the club will be here long after SISU in some form so they need to be reminded of that. Not every owner is like SISU.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? Yes.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? Punishments is probably the wrong word here. They need to keep/get the population of Coventry and the surrounding areas in favour. purposely forcing out the football club supported by that population is never going to end well.

The Football League are not only responsible for allowing SISU to buy our club TWICE but also for allowing the likes of Oyston, Cellino, Roland, Allam, Venkys, etc to take over various other famous old football clubs that all deserve much better. This is much bigger than Coventry City. It's relevant for each and every club in the country whether they are current or prospective members of this old boys club. They need to grow a spine and put in proper regulations to not only prevent unfit owners in the first place but also permanently remove clubs from the control of unfit owners.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? Yes.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? Again punishments is probably the wrong word. Pressure on MPs to force change does seem to be having a positive effect. It remains to be seen whether it makes any difference.

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AJB1983 said:

CCFC's fault, no?
They said they were going to look for a new site, didn't extend current deal, took legal action against the charity that owned it, but its Wasps fault for choosing what will be a vacant facility?

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CJ_covblaze said:

Previous owners/directors of our club such as Pointon, Richardson, McGinnity and Robinson are a major reason why we are where we are. At some point some of their hearts may have been in the right place and may have even lost a few quid along the way but between them they sowed the seeds that SISU are harvesting now. From the transfers and the money made from them to the sale of our home along with the complete balls up of timescales and management during that sale, it was incompetence of the highest level. Also a special mention has to go to some of those that have been here in the SISU years such as Clouting, Igwe, Brody, Delieu & Labovitch. They're all culpable. They made poor decision after poor decision and we'd be in a far better place if they were never involved. However all of the above are now in one of the three categories I listed above.

Click to expand...

CJ_covblaze said:

The current owners/directors, SISU, Joy, Dermot and Tim are the main reason why we are where we are. They took us to Northampton. They had 7 years to buy the Ricoh but didn't. They had 8 years to secure the academies future but didn't. They've got us relegated to the third tier and not looks likely we'll drop even further in the immediate future. They did ok for a year or so putting an adequate team on the pitch. Maybe that was luck rather than judgement or more likely down to having people involved that knew how to run a football club. Soon enough though it all went tits when up the people who knew what they were doing left and the individuals listed under the "previous directors" jumped on board one by one and found the nearest iceberg to head towards.

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CJ_covblaze said:

Some say "all sides need bringing to account for the mess we are in". These include Coventry City Council, SISU, Higgs Trust, Wasps, previous club directors/directors, the Football League, I think thats all of them!

Personally I think there are only three of those that actually matter at this moment. SISU, Wasps and the FL. The rest are irrelevant as they can't make a difference any more. The rest of those that are responsible are either retired, have left office or are dead.

Rightly or wrongly the Council sold the stadium that they and other partners built for Coventry City to a nomadic Rugby Club. Yes they own the freehold to the Ricoh but that is a side note really given the long lease. Any land that SISU could build this mythical stadium on within the city of Coventry is either not suitable or earmarked for housing. They no longer have any part to play and almost all of those that had a significant involvement before or during the decision to sell the Ricoh fall into the categories I've listed above.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? No.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? None of any note.

The Higgs Trust I feel have been dragged into this mess when they didn't really want to be a part of it in the first place. They only got involved due to the incompetence of the former owners and were only involved in recent years due to the stubbornness and shoddy ownership of the current owners.
Do they share some of the blame? No
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? No.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? None of any note.

Previous owners/directors of our club such as Pointon, Richardson, McGinnity and Robinson are a major reason why we are where we are. At some point some of their hearts may have been in the right place and may have even lost a few quid along the way but between them they sowed the seeds that SISU are harvesting now. From the transfers and the money made from them to the sale of our home along with the complete balls up of timescales and management during that sale, it was incompetence of the highest level. Also a special mention has to go to some of those that have been here in the SISU years such as Clouting, Igwe, Brody, Delieu & Labovitch. They're all culpable. They made poor decision after poor decision and we'd be in a far better place if they were never involved. However all of the above are now in one of the three categories I listed above.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? No.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? None of any note.

The current owners/directors, SISU, Joy, Dermot and Tim are the main reason why we are where we are. They took us to Northampton. They had 7 years to buy the Ricoh but didn't. They had 8 years to secure the academies future but didn't. They've got us relegated to the third tier and not looks likely we'll drop even further in the immediate future. They did ok for a year or so putting an adequate team on the pitch. Maybe that was luck rather than judgement or more likely down to having people involved that knew how to run a football club. Soon enough though it all went tits when up the people who knew what they were doing left and the individuals listed under the "previous directors" jumped on board one by one and found the nearest iceberg to head towards.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? Yes.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? To be forced to sell (whether this is a punishment or a favour to them it is up for debate)

To give Wasps credit they saw an opportunity to better themselves, achieved it and have done their best to bed into the community. Whether they were right or wrong to do so is up for debate. I can not stand franchising, the likes of Red Bull are in my opinion the only thing worse than the likes of SISU, Oyston, Cellino, Roland, Allam, Venkys, etc. Rugby Union clubs do have a history of moving around every so often. It's different to football. Does that make it right? I'll leave it there! Let's deal with facts not opinion. They own (or hold a very long lease on) our stadium and soon the current site of our academy. They do hold a lot of the cards. The pressure should be on them from our fans to help keep our club in our city and it's academy at the same level it is at now. Ultimately it's for them to decide if they want to deal with SISU. Would you? However it's fair to say that the club will be here long after SISU in some form so they need to be reminded of that. Not every owner is like SISU.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? Yes.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? Punishments is probably the wrong word here. They need to keep/get the population of Coventry and the surrounding areas in favour. purposely forcing out the football club supported by that population is never going to end well.

The Football League are not only responsible for allowing SISU to buy our club TWICE but also for allowing the likes of Oyston, Cellino, Roland, Allam, Venkys, etc to take over various other famous old football clubs that all deserve much better. This is much bigger than Coventry City. It's relevant for each and every club in the country whether they are current or prospective members of this old boys club. They need to grow a spine and put in proper regulations to not only prevent unfit owners in the first place but also permanently remove clubs from the control of unfit owners.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? Yes.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? Again punishments is probably the wrong word. Pressure on MPs to force change does seem to be having a positive effect. It remains to be seen whether it makes any difference.

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CJ_covblaze said:

Some say "all sides need bringing to account for the mess we are in". These include Coventry City Council, SISU, Higgs Trust, Wasps, previous club directors/directors, the Football League, I think thats all of them!

Personally I think there are only three of those that actually matter at this moment. SISU, Wasps and the FL. The rest are irrelevant as they can't make a difference any more. The rest of those that are responsible are either retired, have left office or are dead.

Rightly or wrongly the Council sold the stadium that they and other partners built for Coventry City to a nomadic Rugby Club. Yes they own the freehold to the Ricoh but that is a side note really given the long lease. Any land that SISU could build this mythical stadium on within the city of Coventry is either not suitable or earmarked for housing. They no longer have any part to play and almost all of those that had a significant involvement before or during the decision to sell the Ricoh fall into the categories I've listed above.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? No.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? None of any note.

The Higgs Trust I feel have been dragged into this mess when they didn't really want to be a part of it in the first place. They only got involved due to the incompetence of the former owners and were only involved in recent years due to the stubbornness and shoddy ownership of the current owners.
Do they share some of the blame? No
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? No.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? None of any note.

Previous owners/directors of our club such as Pointon, Richardson, McGinnity and Robinson are a major reason why we are where we are. At some point some of their hearts may have been in the right place and may have even lost a few quid along the way but between them they sowed the seeds that SISU are harvesting now. From the transfers and the money made from them to the sale of our home along with the complete balls up of timescales and management during that sale, it was incompetence of the highest level. Also a special mention has to go to some of those that have been here in the SISU years such as Clouting, Igwe, Brody, Delieu & Labovitch. They're all culpable. They made poor decision after poor decision and we'd be in a far better place if they were never involved. However all of the above are now in one of the three categories I listed above.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? No.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? None of any note.

The current owners/directors, SISU, Joy, Dermot and Tim are the main reason why we are where we are. They took us to Northampton. They had 7 years to buy the Ricoh but didn't. They had 8 years to secure the academies future but didn't. They've got us relegated to the third tier and not looks likely we'll drop even further in the immediate future. They did ok for a year or so putting an adequate team on the pitch. Maybe that was luck rather than judgement or more likely down to having people involved that knew how to run a football club. Soon enough though it all went tits when up the people who knew what they were doing left and the individuals listed under the "previous directors" jumped on board one by one and found the nearest iceberg to head towards.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? Yes.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? To be forced to sell (whether this is a punishment or a favour to them it is up for debate)

To give Wasps credit they saw an opportunity to better themselves, achieved it and have done their best to bed into the community. Whether they were right or wrong to do so is up for debate. I can not stand franchising, the likes of Red Bull are in my opinion the only thing worse than the likes of SISU, Oyston, Cellino, Roland, Allam, Venkys, etc. Rugby Union clubs do have a history of moving around every so often. It's different to football. Does that make it right? I'll leave it there! Let's deal with facts not opinion. They own (or hold a very long lease on) our stadium and soon the current site of our academy. They do hold a lot of the cards. The pressure should be on them from our fans to help keep our club in our city and it's academy at the same level it is at now. Ultimately it's for them to decide if they want to deal with SISU. Would you? However it's fair to say that the club will be here long after SISU in some form so they need to be reminded of that. Not every owner is like SISU.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? Yes.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? Punishments is probably the wrong word here. They need to keep/get the population of Coventry and the surrounding areas in favour. purposely forcing out the football club supported by that population is never going to end well.

The Football League are not only responsible for allowing SISU to buy our club TWICE but also for allowing the likes of Oyston, Cellino, Roland, Allam, Venkys, etc to take over various other famous old football clubs that all deserve much better. This is much bigger than Coventry City. It's relevant for each and every club in the country whether they are current or prospective members of this old boys club. They need to grow a spine and put in proper regulations to not only prevent unfit owners in the first place but also permanently remove clubs from the control of unfit owners.
Do they share some of the blame? Yes.
Is going after them right at this moment going to make any difference? Yes.
If we did go after them as a fanbase/city what punishments could actually be handed down to them given their current status? Again punishments is probably the wrong word. Pressure on MPs to force change does seem to be having a positive effect. It remains to be seen whether it makes any difference.

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italiahorse said:

15% Wasps (£75K/annum) and 15% CCFC (£75K) and 60% Compass

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Moff said:

What about the other 10%? Is that sacrificed to the gods or do you need to work on your maths?

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torchomatic said:

Joy's Handbag Fund.

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Grendel said:

.......

The club do not want a long deal and want a far shorter arrangement - if they said anything people wouldn't believe them anyway - would they?

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Grendel said:

From wasps perspective they obviously would prefer the "legal noise" nonsense so people like you say "I can't blame wasps"

The club do not want a long deal and want a far shorter arrangement - if they said anything people wouldn't believe them anyway - would they?

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Godiva said:

Wait a minute, you forgot to mention Ranson, Hoffman and Elliott, who wasted the only golden opportunity in recent times, when they had millions at their disposal to turn around the failed business model.



Oh, so you really give them a free pass. Does that mean, that the 'right way to run a football club' is with a business model that leads to bankruptcy?

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CJ_covblaze said:

No. I left them out as along with one or two other individuals they actually knew what they were doing, purchased players that were capable of getting us promoted and actually ran the business quite well. Gates were relatively high, corporate revenue was too. It all started to fall apart when they realised what Onye was doing, did their best to change it but realised they couldn't so they all left one after the other. He was the problem, not them.

Maybe I could've said the Ranson miss-lead Elliott and that lead to Elliott misleading the fans but I personally think Ray was miss-lead in the first place by Onye. Ray and Joe both encouraged fans to sign over their shares. I did. I got duped too just they they both did. Does that mean like the rest of the fans that did do so, I am at fault too? They both got taken on a ride by him, even Joy did for the first couple of years. He was and probably still is a complete lunatic with both his actions in the Coventry City board room and elsewhere. Remember who it was that suggested that Sky Blue Sam was too fat and who the two individuals were that sat their in disbelief? It was like that for months.

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Flying Fokker said:

That's got me occupied for a while.....Not sure we are any different to anywhere else.

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Grendel said:

Do you believe the council should keep its commitments?

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CJ_covblaze said:

No. I left them out as along with one or two other individuals they actually knew what they were doing, purchased players that were capable of getting us promoted and actually ran the business quite well. Gates were relatively high, corporate revenue was too. It all started to fall apart when they realised what Onye was doing, did their best to change it but realised they couldn't so they all left one after the other. He was the problem, not them.

Maybe I could've said the Ranson miss-lead Elliott and that lead to Elliott misleading the fans but I personally think Ray was miss-lead in the first place by Onye. Ray and Joe both encouraged fans to sign over their shares. I did. I got duped too just they they both did. Does that mean like the rest of the fans that did do so, I am at fault too? They both got taken on a ride by him, even Joy did for the first couple of years. He was and probably still is a complete lunatic with both his actions in the Coventry City board room and elsewhere. Remember who it was that suggested that Sky Blue Sam was too fat and who the two individuals were that sat their in disbelief? It was like that for months, every meeting!

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CJ_covblaze said:

Rightly or wrongly the Council sold the stadium that they and other partners built for Coventry City to a nomadic Rugby Club.

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CJ_covblaze said:

No. I left them out as along with one or two other individuals they actually knew what they were doing, purchased players that were capable of getting us promoted and actually ran the business quite well. Gates were relatively high, corporate revenue was too. It all started to fall apart when they realised what Onye was doing, did their best to change it but realised they couldn't so they all left one after the other. He was the problem, not them.

Maybe I could've said the Ranson miss-lead Elliott and that lead to Elliott misleading the fans but I personally think Ray was miss-lead in the first place by Onye. Ray and Joe both encouraged fans to sign over their shares. I did. I got duped too just they they both did. Does that mean like the rest of the fans that did do so, I am at fault too? They both got taken on a ride by him, even Joy did for the first couple of years. He was and probably still is a complete lunatic with both his actions in the Coventry City board room and elsewhere. Remember who it was that suggested that Sky Blue Sam was too fat and who the two individuals were that sat their in disbelief? It was like that for months, every meeting!

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SkyBlueZack said:

If the trust ever took over the club. Hoffman and Elliott would be immediately installed. The same two who helped bring sisu here. The same Hoffman who having worked in the financial industry,should have known exactly what sisu were about. Elliott has been around the club for years and not made a jot of difference. We need a clean slate. On that basis I pray the trust don't take us over. I have little faith in the trust and zero faith in them two.

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fernandopartridge said:

Sorry mate, you're well off the mark They didn't run the business well at all, the revenue streams they inherited.

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