standupforcity
Well-Known Member
You made me laugh btw....
You made me laugh btw....Oh thank god you're ok. I was so worried about you after they released Lameiras. I'll let Interpol know you're alive and well!!
Maybe vastly oversimplifying...but the reason SISU hang on looks clear to me.
If you agree with the view that the club has significant debts, then it makes complete sense that SISU don't want a quick sell.
Even if they owe 40 million to their creditors, it is a 'good' debt if they are able to make small operating profits year on year (which they have been doing through cutting costs and player sales).
You could take the view that they are trying to take very few financial risks, and just get that small, slow burn year on year profit. The debt will come good in 40 years.
That's a great way to run a hedge fund: the creditors have supposedly invested millions, which will be realised over a long period of time with interest.
I think most of us agree though that it is not a good way to run a football club - slow servicing of a debt at the cost of our league status and an overall devaluing of our business.
SISU won't 'cut their losses' because they need their debt to be fully realised - so Hoffman et al need to buy the whole debt, whatever that is.
Do we know if Hoffman's consortium has the resources to do this, assuming SISU report £40-60m of debt on their books?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So are you suggesting that the debt is getting slowly paid off?
I was under the impression it isn't.
Also aren't investments such as this supposed to pay off after 10 years not 40 years.
What if you invested in your late 40's or 50's will you be happy with pay offs in your late 80's / 90's?
I still think it's somehow linked to compensation levels and trying to get the highest price possible when the enivitable does happen
You need a sarcasm emoji.
The only time that a tax loss makes sense IMO (and Old Sky Blue may know others) is when you lose money (and you never want to do that) you recognise it in the P/L immediately. So for example, if I have to buy a machine for £100 which has 5 years of use in it, the fair way to account would be to charge £20 to P/L every year. But if I wanted to cook the books I would put the £100 to P/L immediately as I buy it. That's not legal in the UK.
I'm surprised the Fisher line about crystalising losses has got such currency.
The original investment would have been written off from a SISU investment POV. We're now on to round #2, and *that's* what you have to look at...
Probably a naive view, but discounting the balance sheet semantics (and I profess to not fully understanding them) - I wondered if SISU were hoping that if CCFC could have a successful 17/18 season (i.e promotion) then they could gain a higher sale price form any purchasers. Surely they are facing a looming milestone with the Ricoh rental agreement running out at the end of the current season and I would have thought that the time/money involved in resolving that issue (assuming they can't do a deal for the Ricoh) would give them the best 'get out' point at the end of this season. In some ways, I hope that Wasps (spit)/ ACL/whoever (forgotten the relevant negotiating parties!) play hardball and force SISU to go (as alternatives are not practical/acceptable). Might be naive, but I am hopeful that new purchasers would quickly be able to renegotiate with our current landlords and we can then turn this club around.
I'm surprised the Fisher line about crystalising losses has got such currency.
The original investment would have been written off from a SISU investment POV. We're now on to round #2, and *that's* what you have to look at...
A couple of points on Sisu.
Sisu manage funds and charge the investors for doing so . On that basis if Sisu sell ,the losses to their investors become evident. I do not believe that it is Seppalla's decision whether they sell ,but the investors. The purpose of a hedge fund is for the investors to get a better return on their investment than they would by using conventional markets. On the basis of their returns to date , it has been a shocking investment.Which designates Sisu as a hedge fund not to invest in .
Until a sale is actioned , the level of the losses to the investors remains camouflaged.
In simple terms if you invested £1m a sale is likely to give you a return of £200k. Your options are to sit it out and you may minimise your loss ,or take the £800k hit and move on . The sale on this basis would destroy Sisu's already poor reputation and no doubt finish them off . While there remains a small glimmer of hope i.e. Robins can mastermind a promotion they have no option to hold onto the club . Unless the investors say enough is enough .i suspect one of the investors is Little Timmy , which is why he works for nothing .
I am not a financial expert , but believe this logically explains why Sisu are so reluctant to sell . I am happy to be corrected, but until we rid ourselves of this vermin the club will be dragged lower and lower , hence why potential local investors are prepared to write money off to save a major part of Coventry heritage .
Got to love all of the want for ccfc to be distressed.
We have been for about 20 years now so what difference would another year or two make if it helped to get rid of SISU?Got to love all of the want for ccfc to be distressed.
And if it doesn't get rid of them?We have been for about 20 years now so what difference would another year or two make if it helped to get rid of SISU?
I'd ask how the fuck did they ever expect to make money by buying a money pit like a football club?Whilst I completely agree about realized losses and sisu not selling for such a huge loss etc but one question if I may?
How the fuck are they expecting to ever make their money back by keeping the club?
Can you explain to me why that view of realising losses doesn't hold water? What is round 2?
I'm not throwing my weight behind any side of an argument btw, just interested. They used to say £60m of debt...sometimes I hear £40... all feels very smoke and mirrors, which resonates with some of the points made above.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've been saying the same as NW for some time.
FYI round 2 refers to an investment by a SISU fund called ARVO, which has only put in around £8M, prior to that another SISU fund put in somewhat more (about £25M if memory serves) and made a right pigs ear of their investment strategy,
Essentially that first tranche of money was written off and only exists as paper debt that will never be repaid. Losers ONYE Igwe & then Ken Delieu were associated with the earlier failures. They've been dumped by SISU. This link gives a bit of background, Fisher confirms Onye Igwe departure
Joy Sepalla is much more hands on with this second investment and I see it as her saying to investors I will turn this around and make a profit, and by doing so she will restore her reputation. Assuming she only has to make a decent profit from an £8M investment over 4-5 years then I thing she will let go provided she guarantees to make £12M and has a very good chance of making the return up to double. However I think the court cases will have to play out a bit more.
I repeat were they fuck.
What next "Cody was always the one I wanted"
Thorn must have been lying then ?
And if it doesn't get rid of them?
I have renewed my ST, and am not interested in wasting my energy in a SISU out campaign that won't make a jot of difference; however, I do see the impending expiry of the rental agreement as a milestone in forcing SISU to reveal their intentions as regards CCFC. Dislike them as much as I do, it is only because of what they have done. If they change direction and turn the club around, I will be happy. Like others, I won't forget the Northampton debacle, but ultimately it is about the direction that CCFC is being taken. If they can take it in a positive direction, I am fine with that. If not, please sell up to someone who can. Over to you SISU.
Yes but all of this forcing SISU stuff, what happens if it doesn't make them go but by forcing CCFC out to pressure SISU it means CCFC moves somewhere?
where ?. Our chairman has confirmed Plan A is the Butts, why would they move somewhere else ?
Is that going to be the justification of CCFC being kicked out then? May as well get it rolling already.
Throw some cash and get promotion to top flight. Either tread water and pick up cash, or club then becomes saleable and can be moved on.I'd ask how the fuck did they ever expect to make money by buying a money pit like a football club?
Wonder if the three year plan they started out with was the three year plan they ended up with...?I've been saying the same as NW for some time.
FYI round 2 refers to an investment by a SISU fund called ARVO, which has only put in around £8M, prior to that another SISU fund put in somewhat more (about £25M if memory serves) and made a right pigs ear of their investment strategy,
Essentially that first tranche of money was written off and only exists as paper debt that will never be repaid. Losers ONYE Igwe & then Ken Delieu were associated with the earlier failures. They've been dumped by SISU. This link gives a bit of background, Fisher confirms Onye Igwe departure
Joy Sepalla is much more hands on with this second investment and I see it as her saying to investors I will turn this around and make a profit, and by doing so she will restore her reputation. Assuming she only has to make a decent profit from an £8M investment over 4-5 years then I thing she will let go provided she guarantees to make £12M and has a very good chance of making the return up to double. However I think the court cases will have to play out a bit more.
the move for the Ricoh was inspired..
It's almost like I didn't put a load of caveats in...the problem is,if you think the move was inspired, you must also think the CCC - wasps deal was also inspired
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?