I Don't Understand? (1 Viewer)

[mcullen]

Can someone help me with this? I don't live in the City any more but like everyone on here am a lifelong CCFC fan and regular. If SISU are the owners and they are the ones who were placed in Administration, how can they be the preferred bidder? Also if they are the owners, who are the buying the club from? Or is this a Holdings versus CCFC thing so this will unite both entities? Can someone explain this for me?
Thanks!
Confused dot Com.

 

---

[SkyBlueSwiss]

You have to realise just how antiquated and unjust the English legal system is concerning debt, bankruptcy and insolvency.
In most countries, if you go bankrupt, you have that debt until you repay it. Bankruptcy does not absolve you of any debt or obligation. In the UK, you can go bankrupt every three to five years to clear your debt and start your next venture again by going into debt without a worry in the world.
This is an appallingly bad law that is taken advantage of time and time again and must be revised to stop the abuse. For instance, it is quite clear that SISU deliberately set things up to use this useless law to get rid of their obligation under the rental contract with SISU. They did this deliberately and quite openly, using the law to abuse the system. Everybody knows they did this, nobody is denying they did this, and yet a lot of people support them doing this because it means they can sit in their seat at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon.

This sort of thing happens multiple times daily in both the private and business sectors, and will continue until the law changes and people have to then be responsible for their debt. Given the state of morality in the UK, I think a change in the law may be a long time coming, and a change in the morality of those responsible for football in this world will be a long way behind even that!

 

[mcullen]

You have to realise just how antiquated and unjust the English legal system is concerning debt, bankruptcy and insolvency.
In most countries, if you go bankrupt, you have that debt until you repay it. Bankruptcy does not absolve you of any debt or obligation. In the UK, you can go bankrupt every three to five years to clear your debt and start your next venture again by going into debt without a worry in the world.
This is an appallingly bad law that is taken advantage of time and time again and must be revised to stop the abuse. For instance, it is quite clear that SISU deliberately set things up to use this useless law to get rid of their obligation under the rental contract with SISU. They did this deliberately and quite openly, using the law to abuse the system. Everybody knows they did this, nobody is denying they did this, and yet a lot of people support them doing this because it means they can sit in their seat at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon.

This sort of thing happens multiple times daily in both the private and business sectors, and will continue until the law changes and people have to then be responsible for their debt. Given the state of morality in the UK, I think a change in the law may be a long time coming, and a change in the morality of those responsible for football in this world will be a long way behind even that!

OK, thanks for that really thorough explanation - I now understand the why! I have another question now please? During the period we are in Administration, who owns the club? That is, who is SISU now buying the club from?

 

[corniepaste]

OK, thanks for that really thorough explanation - I now understand the why! I have another question now please? During the period we are in Administration, who owns the club? That is, who is SISU now buying the club from?

They effectively paid approx £500,000 for it as that was the administrators fee for his work. He had to sell in the best interest of the ccfc ltd original owners (sisu). They used a subsidiary company to basically say we will outbid any 3rd party investor, so Haskell says here's £1.00, sisu subsidiary company says here is £50,000,000. The amount is insequential as they are buying it from themselves and the admistrator looks at the bids and says the biggest amount is in the best interest of getting the most money for the ccfc ltd owners even though they would never actually bid any money. And the administrator knows this all along. Our only hope is the football league block this move. They won't though as they made the mistake of allowing sisu to register the wrong company name (ccfc holdings) for use of the golden share.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

OK, thanks for that really thorough explanation - I now understand the why! I have another question now please? During the period we are in Administration, who owns the club? That is, who is SISU now buying the club from?

I think the part of the club that was put into administration (CCFC Ltd) is controlled by the administrator Paul Appleton whilst we are in administration.

The part of the club that wasn't in administration (CCFC Holdings) was still controlled by SISU.

I think...

 

[corniepaste]

I think the part of the club that was put into administration (CCFC Ltd) is controlled by the administrator Paul Appleton whilst we are in administration.

The part of the club that wasn't in administration (CCFC Holdings) was still controlled by SISU.

I think...

Correct, however because he was employed by sisu he was definitely their whipping boy.

 

[mcullen]

That's very well laid out - thanks; completely understand now! Dodginess and corruption from top to bottom, eh?

 

[corniepaste]

Correct, however because he was employed by sisu he was definitely their whipping boy.

Although technically he is employed as a public servant under the rule of the courts. That's the truth but he was still sisu's whipping boy and this can be proven by how fast he worked a so called solution in the last 2 weeks compared to portsmouths plight.

 

[mcullen]

It's quite simply a SISU stitch up, isn't it? Whatever you think of them you have to admit they played a blinder on this whole Administration fiasco. The Football League, The FA and any other football regulators need to have a good look at themselves....

 

[corniepaste]

That's very well laid out - thanks; completely understand now! Dodginess and corruption from top to bottom, eh?

To tell you the truth I'm gutted, can't take much more of sisu. I've supported city for 30 years, seriously thinking about supporting Coventry sphinx, but my sky blue blood is just about stopping me. My only hope is that someone offers enough money to sisu to walk away. They say its not for sale, but no one runs a company this bad and wants to keep it. So they are, like me waiting for a sugar daddy to come along and throw money at them to walk.

 

[corniepaste]

It's quite simply a SISU stitch up, isn't it? Whatever you think of them you have to admit they played a blinder on this whole Administration fiasco. The Football League, The FA and any other football regulators need to have a good look at themselves....

You would like to think they would look at themselves, but we are not the only club with owners pulling this kind of crap. The league would be taken to court by every club if they even tried to implement very strict fit and proper rules. That is why the press are talking about it, but it's not actually happening anytime soon. Crazy!

 

[RegTheDonk]

..... Our only hope is the football league block this move. They won't though as they made the mistake of allowing sisu to register the wrong company name (ccfc holdings) for use of the golden share.

Thanks corniepaste - there must be something amiss at the FL (some administrative cock up on carbon headed notepaper that some flipping YTS filed under C for "THE Coventry City......" or some bollocks to that nature) for SISU to keep banging on about Holdings being in charge, while the FL keep their heads down and don't come out with some kind of ruling. It makes the FL a bigger joke that us at the moment.

 

[corniepaste]

Thanks corniepaste - there must be something amiss at the FL (some administrative cock up on carbon headed notepaper that some flipping YTS filed under C for "THE Coventry City......" or some bollocks to that nature) for SISU to keep banging on about Holdings being in charge, while the FL keep their heads down and don't come out with some kind of ruling. It makes the FL a bigger joke that us at the moment.

No worries Reg. While they would like to change the rules on fair play they would jeopardise a lot of clubs complaining because most clubs are insolvent and with new rules they would put about 80% of the league into admin.

 

[RPHunt]

I said on another thread that, as far as we know, the successful bidder, Otium, is owned by SISU and not by the original investors who now stand to lose everything. In effect, SISU are screwing those investors (as well as CCFC fans) and all perfectly legal.

 

[@richh87]

Fisher blurted "the accounts are in a mess" when pressed on certain points in the fans forums.

I think they've got a lot to hide that could come back to haunt them.

 

[James Smith]

I said on another thread that, as far as we know, the successful bidder, Otium, is owned by SISU and not by the original investors who now stand to lose everything. In effect, SISU are screwing those investors (as well as CCFC fans) and all perfectly legal.

Maybe one of them will have deep pockets and want to take legal action. We can hope at any rate.

 

[RPHunt]

Maybe one of them will have deep pockets and want to take legal action. We can hope at any rate.

I suspect James that most of them will have given up on this investment a long time ago and will now be able to plan offsetting this loss against gains on better investments.

 

[corniepaste]

I said on another thread that, as far as we know, the successful bidder, Otium, is owned by SISU and not by the original investors who now stand to lose everything. In effect, SISU are screwing those investors (as well as CCFC fans) and all perfectly legal.

Yeah, otium is timmy and ken deleau's little baby, set up to be another, again yet another holdings company. It has no actually property or staff other than a board of which I believe that timmy is the only remaining member. Meaning he can do with it what he wants with no challenge. This is all conjecture though, the main thing is sisu holds all these companies as subsidiaries in its portfolio and they must have countless holdings registered companies that they are using to do the same thing to others failing companies like ours. The difference is that we are a club that operates as a company. And the club (history/badge/fans) is the most important thing, but it isn't to timmy or sisu. Shame.

 

[RPHunt]

Yeah, otium is timmy and ken deleau's little baby, set up to be another, again yet another holdings company. It has no actually property or staff other than a board of which I believe that timmy is the only remaining member. Meaning he can do with it what he wants with no challenge. This is all conjecture though, the main thing is sisu holds all these companies as subsidiaries in its portfolio and they must have countless holdings registered companies that they are using to do the same thing to others failing companies like ours. The difference is that we are a club that operates as a company. And the club (history/badge/fans) is the most important thing, but it isn't to timmy or sisu. Shame.

I think you are overestimating SISU - they don't have countless holdings companies, just a few involving CCFC. They are, in fact, a rather small, shabby outfit trying desperately to punch above their weight.

 

[wingy]

I think you are overestimating SISU - they don't have countless holdings companies, just a few involving CCFC. They are, in fact, a rather small, shabby outfit trying desperately to punch above their weight.

Where is Brody's Stake in all of this.

 

[Essexrobbie]

I think you are overestimating SISU - they don't have countless holdings companies, just a few involving CCFC. They are, in fact, a rather small, shabby outfit trying desperately to punch above their weight.

I don't live in the Cov area so my only form of information is this excellant forum, so what I don't understand is why do sisu still want the skyblues as they'l only be loosing more money next year and unless they invest which they clearly have no intention of doing , will never have aviable asset.

 

[RPHunt]

I don't live in the Cov area so my only form of information is this excellant forum, so what I don't understand is why do sisu still want the skyblues as they'l only be loosing more money next year and unless they invest which they clearly have no intention of doing , will never have aviable asset.

I have been pondering that.

It is possible that everything could now be wrapped up in Otium and this could be offered for sale. If, as I suspect, the original investors have no share of Otium, then all proceeds of the sale go to SISU and they might be quite happy to walk away with £10m or so for it. All the crap about moving might have been a smokescreen to cover up the fact that the investors were the group that were really being shafted.

Just a thought.

 

[corniepaste]

I think you are overestimating SISU - they don't have countless holdings companies, just a few involving CCFC. They are, in fact, a rather small, shabby outfit trying desperately to punch above their weight.

Small and shabby doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have their grubby fingers in many pies. But frankly if you are correct and they're tin pot, then it beggars belief why they are doing this but I will probably correctly assume it is ego of people like this in their positions. I have a brother in law who ran his own bank in Hong Kong. He had about 10 people in his team and he traded millions and millions for new money imports from India. Although to be fair he new his beans, spoke a different language in to me when trying to explain banking patter. So I would assume the same with sisu, especially their lawyers. Before you ask he is no longer a banker.