I talked to B.C.F.A re. phoenix club. (2 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It is not as black and white as some have made it seem.

It is not a phoenix / breakaway club OR Coventry City, it can be both.

My hope would be that if a breakaway or phoenix team was formed then further down the line CCFC and this new club would once again become one.

If I follow a new club it doesn't mean I am no longer a CCFC supporter.

WHILE the club is out of the City I would back a new team. If and when CCFC came back to Coventry this new team wouldn't survive anyway I would have thought.

Think most sensible people on here believe that if we go to Northampton it will be a more than 3 years before we return.

This is why I would back a new club. A new club with increasingly bigger support could help force Sisu out and new owners in.

If the new club folded those who had backed it financially would be left with nothing. OK if you were just a fan but not if you had spent time and money organising and running it. We would be better off going out and persuading other businessmen to take on the current club.

For me if the current club leaves I support nobody until it comes back.

 

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[stupot07]

Stu,
I understand what your point of view is and I accept that this is your point of view.
What we have here is a difference of perception. You perceive a SISU-owned football club playing in Northampton as "your" club. I and some others perceive this to no longer be our club and would like to take action to remedy this state of affairs. So we are looking at the same situation and we see two totally different things. No amount of argument is likely to change this perception. I have not argued against you continuing to support a SISU-owned club playing in Northampton - that is your choice. And yet you argue vociferously against what I perceive to be the situation and what I would like to see happen. Don't you think this is a bit one-sided? Hence I ask you to stop arguing against something so vociferously that you intend to have nothing to do with anyway.

Of course it's 1 sided, it's my view my opinion.

Ok, as sisu owned ccfc are dead to you, and you will having nothing else to do with the club, I assume you will no longer post an anything ccfc related...

 

[stupot07]

If the new club folded those who had backed it financially would be left with nothing. OK if you were just a fan but not if you had spent time and money organising and running it. We would be better off going out and persuading other businessmen to take on the current club.

For me if the current club leaves I support nobody until it comes back.

Watch it Brighton, Swiss will turn on you next.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Watch it Brighton, Swiss will turn on you next.

Out of interest, how would we go about headhunting a new consortium to buy the club? Surely it's more direct than starting a protest club and hoping one appears?

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Of course it's 1 sided, it's my view my opinion.

Ok, as sisu owned ccfc are dead to you, and you will having nothing else to do with the club, I assume you will no longer post an anything ccfc related...

You really don't do yourself any favours if you start following Grenduffy's style of response. Assuming that, based upon my point of view, I will no longer post is hardly an adequate response when it comes to answering a question or responding to a post.

If I was to start posting in this manner, I might even change my response to Grenduffy's post and say that, yes, I will leave this forum under those circumstances, but I will come back occasionally just to annoy you and Grenduffy.

 

[BrisbaneBronco]

think the only way you get round this is a Rangers type situation where it's basically the same club and they vote to let you start at a higher point in the pyramid than a new club would.

Yes I was thinking along those lines.
If a Phoenix Club was set up whilst CCFC still existed, then no doubt it would be at the bottom of the Football league pyramid.
However, if CCFC failed to exist, then maybe there would be some flexibility.
We would have The Ricoh as a stadium and a potential fan base of 10k, therefore would it be realistic to expect the entry point to be one level below league 2?
If that was to be the case, it may be a bitter pill worth swallowing!!!!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Yes I was thinking along those lines.
If a Phoenix Club was set up whilst CCFC still existed, then no doubt it would be at the bottom of the Football league pyramid.
However, if CCFC failed to exist, then maybe there would be some flexibility.
We would have The Ricoh as a stadium and a potential fan base of 10k, therefore would it be realistic to expect the entry point to be one level below league 2?
If that was to be the case, it may be a bitter pill worth swallowing!!!!

We wouldn't start in the BSP, get real! Wimbledon had to start below non-league.

A new Phoenix club couldn't afford to play in the RICOH, but also, who wants to watch a football club in a 32k seater with about 1-2k fans in it at best at the start!?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We wouldn't start in the BSP, get real! Wimbledon had to start below non-league.

A new Phoenix club couldn't afford to play in the RICOH, but also, who wants to watch a football club in a 32k seater with about 1-2k fans in it at best at the start!?

The Butts would make a lot more sense.

 

[RogerH]

Out of interest, how would we go about headhunting a new consortium to buy the club? Surely it's more direct than starting a protest club and hoping one appears?

weren't there 4 bidders for CCFC Ltd, SISU, Haskell and two others who I don't think have been named. Wonder who they were and if they were serious.

I think potential buyers are put off by knowing they will have to deal with SISU, whose difficult to deal with reputation is by now well known.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

weren't there 4 bidders for CCFC Ltd, SISU, Haskell and two others who I don't think have been named. Wonder who they were and if they were serious.

I think potential buyers are put off by knowing they will have to deal with SISU, whose difficult to deal with reputation is by now well known.

It's a bloody hard sell, no question. However if there's one thing SISU would listen to is a group of people with enough money to get their investors repaid and CCFC off their hands.

 

[BrisbaneBronco]

We wouldn't start in the BSP, get real! Wimbledon had to start below non-league.

A new Phoenix club couldn't afford to play in the RICOH, but also, who wants to watch a football club in a 32k seater with about 1-2k fans in it at best at the start!?

Just a couple of things.

If Haskell was still interested in the Ricoh and land for future development, then I am sure he could be persuaded to finance a team playing at The Ricoh.
Secondly, I think it is fair to say that the situation we find ourselves in, is unlike any previous administration. Maybe the FL would take this into consideration.
I agree with what u say about 1-2k fans which is based on your assumption that we would be at the bottom of the football league pyramid. Incidentally, the same level of support can be expected next season at Sixfields. My assumption of 10k was based on FL granting entry point of BSP.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Just a couple of things.

If Haskell was still interested in the Ricoh and land for future development, then I am sure he could be persuaded to finance a team playing at The Ricoh.
Secondly, I think it is fair to say that the situation we find ourselves in, is unlike any previous administration. Maybe the FL would take this into consideration.
I agree with what u say about 1-2k fans which is based on your assumption that we would be at the bottom of the football league pyramid. Incidentally, the same level of support can be expected next season at Sixfields. My assumption of 10k was based on FL granting entry point of BSP.

Then feasibly he could buy an interest in the Ricoh and use that as leverage to get the existing club back.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

It is not as black and white as some have made it seem.

It is not a phoenix / breakaway club OR Coventry City, it can be both.

My hope would be that if a breakaway or phoenix team was formed then further down the line CCFC and this new club would once again become one.

If I follow a new club it doesn't mean I am no longer a CCFC supporter.

WHILE the club is out of the City I would back a new team. If and when CCFC came back to Coventry this new team wouldn't survive anyway I would have thought.

Think most sensible people on here believe that if we go to Northampton it will be a more than 3 years before we return.

This is why I would back a new club. A new club with increasingly bigger support could help force Sisu out and new owners in anyway.

Otis, can I ask you a genuine question here?
As things stand at this moment in time with the ongoing embargo that would seem certain to mean we will not be able to bring in any new players until January at the earliest, with 7-8 players being "bombed out", with a significantly weakened team being filled in with youth team players, with everything that is going on around the club and playing home games away, I feel that relegation at this point in time is more of a certainty that a possibility.
I really do think that, unless there are drastic changes, we will be a non-league club within three years at the outside, and that that would suit SISU down to the ground.

I also fully agree with your hypothesis that it would be closer to 7 - 10 years before any hypothetical new ground could be built and CCFC finally move back to Coventry. There is simply no way this could be accomplished in three years.

Given that I see a SISU-owned, Northampton-playing club as non-league within three years and on a significant downward spiral, whereas a properly supported Phoenix team would be moving rapidly up the leagues, at what league level might they cross, what chance that CCFC would be liquidated long before that, and even in the unlikely event of CCFC returning to Coventry, who would be the major team and the "real" CCFC by that time?

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Watch it Brighton, Swiss will turn on you next.

I think Brighton and I can agree to disagree without "turning" on each other

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think Brighton and I can agree to disagree without "turning" on each other

No Swiss, our bromance is over!

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

No Swiss, our bromance is over!

Please don't say that Brighton. I didn't mean it, honest. I will be a good boy from now on

 

[BrisbaneBronco]

Then feasibly he could buy an interest in the Ricoh and use that as leverage to get the existing club back.

I think that the problems here are

a. Hoffman/Elliott involved with Haskell
b. SISU would want too much money

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think that the problems here are

a. Hoffman/Elliott involved with Haskell
b. SISU would want too much money

I'm thinking more if the League fails to give Otium full control-which is unlikely.

 

[BrisbaneBronco]

I'm thinking more if the League fails to give Otium full control-which is unlikely.

If that were to happen, then things could change for the better. But, SISU would no doubt claim that Holdings is the club and go down the legal route.

 

[stupot07]

Out of interest, how would we go about headhunting a new consortium to buy the club? Surely it's more direct than starting a protest club and hoping one appears?

I agree that's where we should be focusing our attentions, although I have no idea where you would start.

 

[stupot07]

You really don't do yourself any favours if you start following Grenduffy's style of response. Assuming that, based upon my point of view, I will no longer post is hardly an adequate response when it comes to answering a question or responding to a post.

If I was to start posting in this manner, I might even change my response to Grenduffy's post and say that, yes, I will leave this forum under those circumstances, but I will come back occasionally just to annoy you and Grenduffy.

You started it, you said that as I would have nothing to do with Phoenix I should not post anything about it or have an opinion about it. Plenty of others have expressed concern yet you only pick on me.

 

[CCFC_GT]

Just back on the thread after nearly 24 hours and good to see interesting debate from various viewpoints which is healthy and what the forum should be about.

Lots to plough through and I notice in particular Stupot, BSB, Grendel, and SBT airing valid concerns. Being lazy the easiest thing for me is to post an amalgamation of my various posts that generally support the idea of starting a new club whatever the label. Don't know if this covers all the concerns raised.

... I don't trust the FL to do what is right or follow their rule book, and I am seriously worried that we might waste 3 to 5 years hanging on to the hope that CCFC will return to the Cov area, which might never happen. SISU might even have a hidden agenda to develop their franchise in Northampton long term. In the meantime a phoenix club would at least give some CCFC fans an alternative on Saturdays and couldn't do any harm. In 3 to 5 years both clubs could be at or around the same level anyway. Agree with others we don't need 2 or 3 phoenix clubs though, just one with a CCFC focus.

... Having slept on this, people are right in saying that we the supporters are the football club, and I would support the creation of a phoenix club created solely for the purpose of being the new CCFC. Before anyone suggests otherwise, this doesn't have to split the fans and we should all accept how each of us chooses to follow our club without pointless bickering. Nor should this mean that we give up hope or stop fighting to get the legal entity of our original club back from SISU/Northampton because that is what we all want. It is just that we may never succeed in getting this and plan B should start now rather than in 3 to 5 years time. Should we at some stage get the legal entity of CCFC back we all know that is where we the supporters who are the club will pledge our support, and the need for the phoenix club disappears and it can be disbanded or swallowed up by CCFC.

Adopting Sphinx or following the new club the local businessmen have recently been promoting just wouldn't cut it for me, because to gain my support the sole and clear purpose of the phoenix club from the beginning should be a continuation of the heart and soul of CCFC by us the fans.

To this end I would also suggest that it would be in the wider interests of CCC/ACL (both in terms of the image of the city and longer term investment) to support this venture by making the Ricoh available to the phoenix club without charge as it's home right from the start in the Midland Combination, with revenues all going to the football club to enable investment to give it the greatest chance of year on year promotions. Yes we would be rattling around in a huge stadium but at least it would feel like home and it would encourage support. Better still if PH4 buys a stake in the Ricoh and invests in the phoenix club rather than loading debt onto it.

The club colours would be sky blue and we would all sing all the traditional sky blues songs. It just gives us another option rather than waiting to see what happens at some point years ahead.

... what if the terms of (PH4) buying into the Ricoh include making an initial (or continuing) non-controlling investment into the football club. Again I would say that it is in the long term interests of CCC/ACL to have a successful football club in the city, and so they should support such a term.

... there doesn't appear to be any other option for regular use of the Ricoh stadium that can have the future potential of a phoenix CCFC, unless of course we can get the original CCFC back.

So unless the FL decides SISU is not fit & proper, or something gives between SISU and ACL, what have CCC/ACL to lose by agreeing to make the phoenix club at the Ricoh a viable possibility during it's early development until it can afford to contribute to costs whilst still having access to revenues.

... This means for me that the phoenix club should be just like a continuation of CCFC playing at the Ricoh wearing sky blue kit and singing sky blue songs with the full and clear intention of becoming the new CCFC if we can't get the old one back.

Finally I would stress that this shouldn't be seen as giving up on getting CCFC back, or a black and white choice between choosing to follow phoenix/startup or CCFC. Personally I would hope to see as many CCFC away games as I can and as many phoenix/startup home games as I can. It should be remembered as well that many CCFC home supporters will simply not be able to or be willing to make the effort to go to Northampton and this may be the only realistic option for them.
I just don't see what we would have to lose.

 

[RogerH]

Great post, totally agree.

Wonder what the Sky Blue Trust will do if we do go to Northampton, their backing for your idea would be really helpful

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Accept the need for urgency by some GT however I have concerns (sorry for being a broken record!) on the practicalities of some of the ideas you put forward.

1. How realistic is it to expect ACL to let us use the venue free of charge and to take all the proceeds from games? It makes little sense on their part and a better venue at least initially would be the Butts. Two Coventry clubs working side by side for a mutual benefit.

2. As long as the club exists it has commercial hold on the name and badge. More to the point whilst it may not be intended as a direct competitor to the current club it will inevitably cause some polarisation of the existing fan base as fans find it hard to support another team alongside CCFC.

3. The biggest issue I've got is the time, energy and money it will take to get this club off the ground and keep it running on a daily basis. People have said if it succeeds and forces SISU out then the Phoenix would just be disbanded. If people have invested lots of the three things I've mentioned, and the club has actually done well, what then?

Sorry if I'm being overly critical-everyone is talking with a lot of passion for the club. Starting a new club and keeping it going is not something we should just launch into though and it needs to be properly scrutinised so it doesn't end in frustration.

 

[stupot07]

Accept the need for urgency by some GT however I have concerns (sorry for being a broken record!) on the practicalities of some of the ideas you put forward.

1. How realistic is it to expect ACL to let us use the venue free of charge and to take all the proceeds from games? It makes little sense on their part and a better venue at least initially would be the Butts. Two Coventry clubs working side by side for a mutual benefit.

2. As long as the club exists it has commercial hold on the name and badge. More to the point whilst it may not be intended as a direct competitor to the current club it will inevitably cause some polarisation of the existing fan base as fans find it hard to support another team alongside CCFC.

3. The biggest issue I've got is the time, energy and money it will take to get this club off the ground and keep it running on a daily basis. People have said if it succeeds and forces SISU out then the Phoenix would just be disbanded. If people have invested lots of the three things I've mentioned, and the club has actually done well, what then?

Sorry if I'm being overly critical-everyone is talking with a lot of passion for the club. Starting a new club and keeping it going is not something we should just launch into though and it needs to be properly scrutinised so it doesn't end in frustration.

Completely agree.

 

[Gary.j]

While I would agree with a large parts of rogers post, i would like to address some areas.

To me, it is black or white. I think a Phoenix is only an option once it has been accepted that the ccfc we all know and love, is no longer the ccfc we all know and love!

If we move forward together, then we don't look back!

We can't view two entities as ccfc! We shouldn't start something unless we intend to see it through, and not drop it if/when a perceived easier/better option comes along, half-arsed will fail.

We can dump sisu, we can take control, we can take our club back, but we can only do that once we have accepted that what we knew as ccfc is no longer recognisable, and have moved on.

We are all at different stages of the grief process, personally, I moved on a long time ago, and I feel emotionally detached from everything sisu related. Everyone has different tollerances, and acceptance levels. Emotions are obviously very high with many supporters, and i accept it will take time for the majority to come on board with this Phoenix idea, but we can only move forward if we are together.

One ccfc!

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/33253-5-stages-of-grief.?p=482652#post482652

 

[Gary.j]

Accept the need for urgency by some GT however I have concerns (sorry for being a broken record!) on the practicalities of some of the ideas you put forward.

1. How realistic is it to expect ACL to let us use the venue free of charge and to take all the proceeds from games? It makes little sense on their part and a better venue at least initially would be the Butts. Two Coventry clubs working side by side for a mutual benefit.

2. As long as the club exists it has commercial hold on the name and badge. More to the point whilst it may not be intended as a direct competitor to the current club it will inevitably cause some polarisation of the existing fan base as fans find it hard to support another team alongside CCFC.

3. The biggest issue I've got is the time, energy and money it will take to get this club off the ground and keep it running on a daily basis. People have said if it succeeds and forces SISU out then the Phoenix would just be disbanded. If people have invested lots of the three things I've mentioned, and the club has actually done well, what then?

Sorry if I'm being overly critical-everyone is talking with a lot of passion for the club. Starting a new club and keeping it going is not something we should just launch into though and it needs to be properly scrutinised so it doesn't end in frustration.

Bsb,

1. Free of charge isn't realistic, there are costs. However, if there are enough supporters behind the idea, it would be in ACL's interests to talk to us and discuss costs. A smaller crowd is better than no crowd.

2. Over the years, our name has already changed (quite radically), and our badge has changed. We would obviously try to find something as close as we can to the current name and badge. Unfortunately, I think we will lose some sky blue fans, some will never accept the idea, but we certainly don't want to drive people away. I think a Phoenix build will take time, but hopefully, as it grows, people will start to come back, and accept it over time.

3. See my previous post.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Bsb,

1. Free of charge isn't realistic, there are costs. However, if there are enough supporters behind the idea, it would be in ACL's interests to talk to us and discuss costs. A smaller crowd is better than no crowd.

2. Over the years, our name has already changed (quite radically), and our badge has changed. We would obviously try to find something as close as we can to the current name and badge. Unfortunately, I think we will lose some sky blue fans, some will never accept the idea, but we certainly don't want to drive people away. I think a Phoenix build will take time, but hopefully, as it grows, people will start to come back, and accept it over time.

3. See my previous post.

Yes small crowds are better than none but what if ACL find a better offer? What you're saying suggests that the current CCFC is dead-in my view it isn't and not everyone fully behind this Phoenix idea shares it either. To run a football club and campaign for change in another one is a huge undertaking which along with my other points means I have great difficulty buying into the idea while CCFC remains.

 

[stupot07]

While I would agree with a large parts of rogers post, i would like to address some areas.

To me, it is black or white. I think a Phoenix is only an option once it has been accepted that the ccfc we all know and love, is no longer the ccfc we all know and love!

If we move forward together, then we don't look back!

We can't view two entities as ccfc! We shouldn't start something unless we intend to see it through, and not drop it if/when a perceived easier/better option comes along, half-arsed will fail.

We can dump sisu, we can take control, we can take our club back, but we can only do that once we have accepted that what we knew as ccfc is no longer recognisable, and have moved on.

We are all at different stages of the grief process, personally, I moved on a long time ago, and I feel emotionally detached from everything sisu related. Everyone has different tollerances, and acceptance levels. Emotions are obviously very high with many supporters, and i accept it will take time for the majority to come on board with this Phoenix idea, [b[but we can only move forward if we are together.[/b]

One ccfc!

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/33253-5-stages-of-grief.?p=482652#post482652

This is where is falls down, it's not black and white. There are lots of categories of supporter.

1)those like you, who now considers ccfc dead,

2) those that will travel to Northampton to watch ccfc

3) those that won't go to Northampton but will go to away games to watch ccfc.

4) those that won't go to games but hope ccfc returns ASAP.

5) those who would attend a Phoenix club but hope ccfc returns and would switch back to ccfc or propose a merger.

6) those that won't recognise Phoenix because cov still exist or because they're not Coventry residents (e.g those from nuneaton may want to go and watch nuneaton)

They're not all mutually exclusive but shows the unity you say is essential isn't there, especially if you're suggesting ccfc never be recognised again.

 

[Gary.j]

Yes small crowds are better than none but what if ACL find a better offer? What you're saying suggests that the current CCFC is dead-in my view it isn't and not everyone fully behind this Phoenix idea shares it either. To run a football club and campaign for change in another one is a huge undertaking which along with my other points means I have great difficulty buying into the idea while CCFC remains.

Yes small crowds are better than none but what if ACL find a better offer? What you're saying suggests that the current CCFC is dead-in my view it isn't and not everyone fully behind this Phoenix idea shares it either. To run a football club and campaign for change in another one is a huge undertaking which along with my other points means I have great difficulty buying into the idea while CCFC remains.

If ACL get a better offer, then the current ccfc won't be back.Playing at the Ricoh is an important element to many supporters, which is why I'm in favour of talking to ACL ASAP, but only if there are enough supporters on board.

To me ccfc is gone, that's my view, I didn't say it was everyone's view. I said, "we can only do that (proceed forward with a Phoenix club) once we have accepted that what we knew as ccfc is no longer recognisable, and have moved on.

We are all at different stages of the grief process, personally, I moved on a long time ago, and I feel emotionally detached from everything sisu related. Everyone has different tollerances, and acceptance levels. Emotions are obviously very high with many supporters, and i accept it will take time for the majority to come on board with this Phoenix idea, but we can only move forward if we are together."

I said nothing about a campaign of change regarding the sisu run club, I'm completely detached from it, i've moved on.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If ACL get a better offer, then the current ccfc won't be back.Playing at the Ricoh is an important element to many supporters, which is why I'm in favour of talking to ACL ASAP, but only if there are enough supporters on board.

To me ccfc is gone, that's my view, I didn't say it was everyone's view. I said, "we can only do that (proceed forward with a Phoenix club) once we have accepted that what we knew as ccfc is no longer recognisable, and have moved on.

We are all at different stages of the grief process, personally, I moved on a long time ago, and I feel emotionally detached from everything sisu related. Everyone has different tollerances, and acceptance levels. Emotions are obviously very high with many supporters, and i accept it will take time for the majority to come on board with this Phoenix idea, but we can only move forward if we are together."

I said nothing about a campaign of change regarding the sisu run club, I'm completely detached from it, i've moved on.

I know you didn't but others have which shows there's still not enough unity even on the club's purpose.

 

[Gary.j]

This is where is falls down, it's not black and white. There are lots of categories of supporter.

1)those like you, who now considers ccfc dead,

2) those that will travel to Northampton to watch ccfc

3) those that won't go to Northampton but will go to away games to watch ccfc.

4) those that won't go to games but hope ccfc returns ASAP.

5) those who would attend a Phoenix club but hope ccfc returns and would switch back to ccfc or propose a merger.

6) those that won't recognise Phoenix because cov still exist or because they're not Coventry residents (e.g those from nuneaton may want to go and watch nuneaton)

They're not all mutually exclusive but shows the unity you say is essential isn't there, especially if you're suggesting ccfc never be recognised again.

This is where is falls down, it's not black and white. There are lots of categories of supporter.

1)those like you, who now considers ccfc dead,

2) those that will travel to Northampton to watch ccfc

3) those that won't go to Northampton but will go to away games to watch ccfc.

4) those that won't go to games but hope ccfc returns ASAP.

5) those who would attend a Phoenix club but hope ccfc returns and would switch back to ccfc or propose a merger.

6) those that won't recognise Phoenix because cov still exist or because they're not Coventry residents (e.g those from nuneaton may want to go and watch nuneaton)

They're not all mutually exclusive but shows the unity you say is essential isn't there, especially if you're suggesting ccfc never be recognised again.

Stu, I realise the unity isn't there, thats why i have been saying that we need to be unified if this is the preferred option to the supporters. I have continually maintained that whatever the fans recognise as ccfc is the real ccfc, regardless of legality. The supporters are the club, if we say its the Phoenix club is ccfc, then it is ccfc.

I know you're not on board with this idea stu, I'm fine with that, really.

 

[Gary.j]

I know you didn't but others have which shows there's still not enough unity even on the club's purpose.

That's why we're talking about it, and are trying to work out our options to find a way to move forward. As I said, people are at different stages in the process, what seems unacceptable to some right now, may not be in the future.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's why we're talking about it, and are trying to work out our options to find a way to move forward. As I said, people are at different stages in the process, what seems unacceptable to some right now, may not be in the future.

It only will be to everyone if, and only if, the present club ceases to exist.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

It only will be to everyone if, and only if, the present club ceases to exist.

Brighton, the problem is, if we wait until the present club ceases to exist, we may lose years in which a Phoenix club could have been growing and progressing up the leagues.
Bit of a conundrum I know, but imho it is better to start right now than to wait years and find out we might have been waiting for nothing.