dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
That would possibly be the final straw for me until they left.
I would have to give it all some serious consideration
I would have to give it all some serious consideration
If SISU do put ACL out of business (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dongonzalos
- Start date
Grendel
Well-Known Member
They can't really put them out of business.
TheRoyalScam
Well-Known Member
Possibly the most inane post I've read on here, unless I've missed the 'satire'...........?
Or you're just a WUM?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
It is very wprong that SISU are with holding a bill that they are contracted to. In order to force another business that was running successfully into the ground. Which would then allow them to get what they want in the cheap.
If they suceed in this I may have to say forget going to the Ricoh till they are gone. It is completely out of order.
If they suceed in this I may have to say forget going to the Ricoh till they are gone. It is completely out of order.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Conservative group leader Kevin Foster, has expressed concerns that the loss-making football club and its private equity fund owners, Sisu, could be deliberately running down ACLs finances to obtain a stake in the stadium on the cheap.
It wouldn't be right if ACL became insolvent and unable to pay its liabilities. All it is doing is continuing to undermine the councils investment in ACL.
It wouldn't be right if ACL became insolvent and unable to pay its liabilities. All it is doing is continuing to undermine the councils investment in ACL.
Bennets Afro
Well-Known Member
If acl went out of business why does everyone assume sisu would get the stadium????
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I don't assume that. Kevin Foster thinks that this is their tactic.
If they destroy ACL a company that was successful and doing well. Who offered them a 50% reduction.
Then I think I will have to wash my hands of them.
If they destroy ACL a company that was successful and doing well. Who offered them a 50% reduction.
Then I think I will have to wash my hands of them.
Bennets Afro
Well-Known Member
Me too I'm afraid.
SkyBlueScottie
Well-Known Member
Stuart Linnell raised a very good and valid point at the weekend. Should such an arena that can attract the likes of Bruce Springsteen be run by what is effectively a local committee and the fact they are in such trouble because the football club is withholding a million quid is very worrying.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The flip side of that is look at way SISU have ran the CCFC business.
Would you one them the so called experts taking over from ACL. Who until the actions of SISU were running a successful business.
Would you one them the so called experts taking over from ACL. Who until the actions of SISU were running a successful business.
As opposed to the talented individuals we've had at the club in the last five years?
skyblueman
New Member
The won't go out of business - they will sue CCFC for the money... besides ACL have assets - CCFC have next to none - far more likely for CCFC to go down over this I'm afraid
Wrenstreetcarpark
New Member
A local committee which has the Head of Legal and Finance and the Chief Executive of the City Council as Directors. The last Chairman is Chairman of Costain and is on the Board of the Clydesdale Bank etc. The FD was Chairman of Hitachi Finance and was at the NFU as Finance Director. According to the ACL website the other Directors are also well qualified in business.
Linell knows sfa and should spend more time with John Clarke where they can talk as equals after all they both have medals for being important.
cloughie
Well-Known Member
And look at the list of incompetents sisu have employed to run CCFC in recent years, with king of the clowns deluie heading a long list of failures who have had to scuttle away
How many failures have gone from ACL ..........I'm struggling to think of 1
It doesn't take a geniuse to work out they should never never let sisu own any part of ACL
How many failures have gone from ACL ..........I'm struggling to think of 1
It doesn't take a geniuse to work out they should never never let sisu own any part of ACL
skyblueman
New Member
Never going to happen now - SISU have ruined their chances of ever co-owning ACL - can anyone really see them being remotely wanted as part of this
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Horrible thing to say as a cov fan, but morally that is the correct way it should pan out if SISU continue with their stance.
skyblueman
New Member
Just to be sure - this is NOT what I want dongonzalos but just how I see it panning out - it's criminal the way SISU are behaving
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
but then you have to ask is the "committee" doing so badly if it has attracted, Springsteen, Muse, Take That, Coldplay, Bon Jov, Pink, Olympics, Rugby World Cup, England u21s, Heineken cup ...... and thats just some of the events in the stadium ...... there is of course the exhibitions, conferences and other events ..... with their senior staff high on list of people other organisations want (eg Daniel Gidney).
There is a misconception that all decisions for the business have to get Council and Charity unanimous approval - simply is not the case.
There are not many organisations where you take out £1m in cashflow and it doesnt have implications.
But Linnell never did let facts get in the way of a good story
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I think the whole issue is divisive wingy. There are, if you like, sides being taken about the off field stuff. Only time we look to be travelling generally in one direction is when we are supporting MR and the team. Even then opinions differ.
It puzzles me that so many business people buy into the spin that comes out of the club. Simply accept it as true, without making any check into it at all. Did they become successful in business acting like that ? certainly not so why is football different. To inquire, to have your eyes open doesnt stop passion for something you love! You could say the same about those coming out staunchly in favour of ACL but to a far lesser number, find the facts dont just simply believe. A lot of this is media led, and ill informed led at that. The facts are there but it doesnt make a headline does it.
My own take on it is that I have had no reason to disbelieve the statements coming from ACL, to my knowledge I do not believe that they have issued false information or deliberately misled. Not saying they havent put their own spin on things, nor am i saying they would be wrong to do so, but the feel i get is honest. The facts that I know support their argument to a large extent
On the other hand you have CCFC and SISU. Again i wouldnt deny their right to put their spin on it, nothing wrong with that really. But the track record they have in respect of providing facts, transparency and integrity is simply not very good. They wheel out others to back them up, providing them with the ammunition, but the facts simply do not match their "reality". They have a much louder voice in the media because they have an agenda, they rely on fans love for the team, and the fact that for all sorts of reasons the Charity & Council can not issue similar emotive statements to match their own. Why do people simply accept what they say when they know the track record - do leopards change their spots ? - clearly use of media, limited facts, emotional statements etc are a tactic they have used before why think they wont use again?
Between the two you have a local media that repeatedly proves itself fairly inept. I understand the problems they have because they have to maintain a relationship with the club, if they dont the club will kick them out. They have to retain a relationship with ACL, Council and Charity but because these three have their basis in the community as a whole know they will not be kicked out, because the bodies involved have to be seen to be open to public scrutiny. Hardly a level playing field. CWR have to try and take a balanced view, (for the life of me I can not see how having Linnel involved meets that criteria) to do so should mean that they back no one. But from the interviews I have heard I would say they favour the club. The CT in my view has lazy reporters and they take the easy path coming down on the balance of things for CCFC. The information as many of us have proven is out there - our media report but they carry out little real investigative journalism.
In the middle of all this is the public of Coventry and surrounding areas, in particular the fans. Unfortunately it is a sad fact that the quiet voice is rarely heard and he who shouts loudest is believed - not because they are right but simply because they shout loudest. As such it is very difficult to fault joe public if they come down on the side of the club. The ordinary fan just wants to see his team win, rarely understands the finances (why would they ?), they will come down on the side of their heroes on the pitch. Clever PR people know this. Fans will hear the club first, see it reinforced in a less than inquiring media and conclude that the club is being shafted by the bad people at ACL...... if ACL, Council, Charity hadnt held the club back look at the success we would have had is the message peddled .......... fantasy but it is taken by many as reality.
When it comes to football, owners, directors, managers, players, fans ignore logic, ignore the facts, dismiss common sense and good business practice...... all for the thrill of seeing a bag of wind hit a net more times than the other team over 90 minutes (plus added time) .......... we all do it, then sit wondering how the hell did we get in this mess :thinking about:. Then we go through it all again next week :facepalm:
I want our club successful, viable, vibrant. I do not want to take sides and I certainly do not want to side against it. However i have a strong sense of fairness, right and wrong, and what the owners are doing appears self centered, uncaring, money driven and wrong to me. It isnt that i am against our team at all, but i am certainly against its owners
It puzzles me that so many business people buy into the spin that comes out of the club. Simply accept it as true, without making any check into it at all. Did they become successful in business acting like that ? certainly not so why is football different. To inquire, to have your eyes open doesnt stop passion for something you love! You could say the same about those coming out staunchly in favour of ACL but to a far lesser number, find the facts dont just simply believe. A lot of this is media led, and ill informed led at that. The facts are there but it doesnt make a headline does it.
My own take on it is that I have had no reason to disbelieve the statements coming from ACL, to my knowledge I do not believe that they have issued false information or deliberately misled. Not saying they havent put their own spin on things, nor am i saying they would be wrong to do so, but the feel i get is honest. The facts that I know support their argument to a large extent
On the other hand you have CCFC and SISU. Again i wouldnt deny their right to put their spin on it, nothing wrong with that really. But the track record they have in respect of providing facts, transparency and integrity is simply not very good. They wheel out others to back them up, providing them with the ammunition, but the facts simply do not match their "reality". They have a much louder voice in the media because they have an agenda, they rely on fans love for the team, and the fact that for all sorts of reasons the Charity & Council can not issue similar emotive statements to match their own. Why do people simply accept what they say when they know the track record - do leopards change their spots ? - clearly use of media, limited facts, emotional statements etc are a tactic they have used before why think they wont use again?
Between the two you have a local media that repeatedly proves itself fairly inept. I understand the problems they have because they have to maintain a relationship with the club, if they dont the club will kick them out. They have to retain a relationship with ACL, Council and Charity but because these three have their basis in the community as a whole know they will not be kicked out, because the bodies involved have to be seen to be open to public scrutiny. Hardly a level playing field. CWR have to try and take a balanced view, (for the life of me I can not see how having Linnel involved meets that criteria) to do so should mean that they back no one. But from the interviews I have heard I would say they favour the club. The CT in my view has lazy reporters and they take the easy path coming down on the balance of things for CCFC. The information as many of us have proven is out there - our media report but they carry out little real investigative journalism.
In the middle of all this is the public of Coventry and surrounding areas, in particular the fans. Unfortunately it is a sad fact that the quiet voice is rarely heard and he who shouts loudest is believed - not because they are right but simply because they shout loudest. As such it is very difficult to fault joe public if they come down on the side of the club. The ordinary fan just wants to see his team win, rarely understands the finances (why would they ?), they will come down on the side of their heroes on the pitch. Clever PR people know this. Fans will hear the club first, see it reinforced in a less than inquiring media and conclude that the club is being shafted by the bad people at ACL...... if ACL, Council, Charity hadnt held the club back look at the success we would have had is the message peddled .......... fantasy but it is taken by many as reality.
When it comes to football, owners, directors, managers, players, fans ignore logic, ignore the facts, dismiss common sense and good business practice...... all for the thrill of seeing a bag of wind hit a net more times than the other team over 90 minutes (plus added time) .......... we all do it, then sit wondering how the hell did we get in this mess :thinking about:. Then we go through it all again next week :facepalm:
I want our club successful, viable, vibrant. I do not want to take sides and I certainly do not want to side against it. However i have a strong sense of fairness, right and wrong, and what the owners are doing appears self centered, uncaring, money driven and wrong to me. It isnt that i am against our team at all, but i am certainly against its owners
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cloughie
Well-Known Member
I whole heartedly agree OSb
I find myself increasingly being on the opposite side to the club i have supported for 45 years plus. Do I want ACL to put a winding up order against the club, of course not, yet the injustice i see going on regarding the Sisu stance and media bias and peddling of the fantasy etc sadly leaves me thinking and feeling SISU will deserve it, not the CCFC fans.
My hope is that there is another way out of this but i find it difficult to see how acl would want sisu as partners.
If that is the case then administration is an option for sisu to sell the 'assets' of the club via the debenture at a reasonable price to who ever maybe waiting in the wings. liquidation surely means the 'assets' would be valued lower, ie no league status
I find myself increasingly being on the opposite side to the club i have supported for 45 years plus. Do I want ACL to put a winding up order against the club, of course not, yet the injustice i see going on regarding the Sisu stance and media bias and peddling of the fantasy etc sadly leaves me thinking and feeling SISU will deserve it, not the CCFC fans.
My hope is that there is another way out of this but i find it difficult to see how acl would want sisu as partners.
If that is the case then administration is an option for sisu to sell the 'assets' of the club via the debenture at a reasonable price to who ever maybe waiting in the wings. liquidation surely means the 'assets' would be valued lower, ie no league status
I think YET AGAIN you have made a conclusion that contradict what you have been saying!
I find it difficult to find ANYONE prepared to say ACL at fault - indeed quite the opposite is true! Whilst you made a long winded and contrived comment on how you know the facts and joe public hasdn't got a clue is at best disingenuous at worst condescending of the fans!
From the people I have spoken to, there isn't one person who claims ACL are the bad guys - their eyes are most definitely open as to the state of play within City.
Clearly I walk around in a different circle of people to you, as from your comment, you imply that the fans generally take SiSU's side- quite clearly this is not the case!
Its been a long time since ANYONE has believed anything coming out from SiSU.
Saying that I cannot disagree with the last couple of chapters. Its just sad that you've basically callled all fans idiots and you're the only one that makes sense!
Judging from your previous posts and the bizarre leaps of logic you consistently make, I suggest you need to look at yourself before you cast stones!
Sure there are fans who just care about the club, but the way you put it across every fan except you ignores te truth!
Indeed there has been very little "fact" that has come out, merely conjecture and assumption.
No one in the public "knows" what is going on as the facts haven't been released!
SiSU haven't stated what they offered, and ACL haven't stated what their debts are - so it is ALL conjecture at this point.
It is utterly laughable that you claim to know what is going on because you don't (unless you are on the board of either side!). And no one other than these 2 groups does know!
I'm sure you enjoy making such grandiose comments and belittling fans, but right now you know as much as I or indeed every other fan does.
Maybe its time you got of your high horse for once!
Wrenstreetcarpark
New Member
The trouble with owners like Sisu is that they gamble all, just as Richardson did, so when they lose they lose big. What they are gambling with is usually someone else's money, and on our behalf they are gambling with a Club that belongs in and with the city. There is no Club without the people who support it. The loss is not with a Finnish American Hedge Fund owner or a slug of financier such as Fisher. The loss is to the people who populate this and other boards, who go to games spending huge amounts over a year, who whenever they are away from Cov listen to the results or find a paper to get those results. They are the losers. Sisu, Fisher and the others will just follow the long line of suits who have come and guzzled in the Boardroom and then disappeared leaving debts and a foul smell behind them.
Peter Robbins, Richardson, Robinson, McGinnity, Igwe, Dulieu etc with Seppala and Fisher to follow them. (we will be left with the revolting Clarke scoffing pies though I suppose)
Peter Robbins, Richardson, Robinson, McGinnity, Igwe, Dulieu etc with Seppala and Fisher to follow them. (we will be left with the revolting Clarke scoffing pies though I suppose)
Wrenstreetcarpark
New Member
wow PSGM1.
You were posting at the same time I was.
What planet are you on?
OSB uses the facts that are available to everyone. They are on the published accounts of all the companies involved. Yes he does know more than the average fan because he reads and understands, and thank god, interprets them for the rest of us.
There are a lot of "facts" out there. OSB reads them and then can point out when the statements made by various people are contradictory or just plain wrong. Or from Fisher, (and yes, I am biassed against Sisu) are just plain lies.
Live on in your strange world PSGM1 it hasn't got long before it drifts away like an old fart.
You were posting at the same time I was.
What planet are you on?
OSB uses the facts that are available to everyone. They are on the published accounts of all the companies involved. Yes he does know more than the average fan because he reads and understands, and thank god, interprets them for the rest of us.
There are a lot of "facts" out there. OSB reads them and then can point out when the statements made by various people are contradictory or just plain wrong. Or from Fisher, (and yes, I am biassed against Sisu) are just plain lies.
Live on in your strange world PSGM1 it hasn't got long before it drifts away like an old fart.
grego_gee
New Member
Spot on OS, Although your conclusion "what the owners are doing appears self centered, uncaring, money driven and wrong to me. It isnt that i am against our team at all, but i am certainly against its owners" isn't totally transparent.
At the root of the current crisis is a rent dispute where there is only one viable tenant - this is always a difficult situation and I don't think SISU are too far wrong here. The Rent should be based on their ability to pay (on the current income of the club - not from other pockets) and this has gone down significantly with the drop and was perhaps too high originally!
What does disturb me is the notion that they may have engineered "the drop" to facilitate rent negotiations!
Either way I don't think we should be too unkind to our owners, who maintain that they are here for the longrun - if/when they succeed in reducing the rent it will certainly be to the benefit of the club, so why should we take issue with that?
imp:
At the root of the current crisis is a rent dispute where there is only one viable tenant - this is always a difficult situation and I don't think SISU are too far wrong here. The Rent should be based on their ability to pay (on the current income of the club - not from other pockets) and this has gone down significantly with the drop and was perhaps too high originally!
What does disturb me is the notion that they may have engineered "the drop" to facilitate rent negotiations!
Either way I don't think we should be too unkind to our owners, who maintain that they are here for the longrun - if/when they succeed in reducing the rent it will certainly be to the benefit of the club, so why should we take issue with that?
imp:
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
The directors have to act in the best interests of the company
I think there might be an 11th hour negotiation ..... or should be if SISU have any sense. ACL can't blink though
BUT the clock is running and options are running out .......... very twitchy times could be ahead.
I think there might be an 11th hour negotiation ..... or should be if SISU have any sense. ACL can't blink though
BUT the clock is running and options are running out .......... very twitchy times could be ahead.
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Wrenstreetcarpark
New Member
I don't like diagreeing with OSB but actually at the moment, if it is true that CCFC owe £1m+ to ACL and that ACL can't pay to service their loan, the Directors' duty is not to ACL but to their creditors. In this case it is to the bank. (Just as CCFC's directors' duty is to ARVO as its largest creditor.) The ACL directors will have to do whatever is necessary to protect their creditor.
cloughie
Well-Known Member
Everyone agrees that the rent needs to be reduced but when ACL have offered 50 % off and then sisu continue to give out misinformation regarding ACL as a business, it is hardly constructive way forward.
In 5 years of sisu we have gone backwards so don't be fooled into thinking a minute step forward at the moment is success
And has PWKH previously stated ACL decisions will be based on the long term future of ACL
In 5 years of sisu we have gone backwards so don't be fooled into thinking a minute step forward at the moment is success
And has PWKH previously stated ACL decisions will be based on the long term future of ACL
cloughie
Well-Known Member
At a guess I would say ACL are restructuring there repayments to suit their income without the CCFC income
Quote PWKH
'Of course ACL is having to look at its business model and how it finances itself in the face of yet another failure of the Football Club to control its spending. It is inevitable that the Board of ACL will have to make some difficult decisions in the very near future. The Charity will support those decisions if they look to benefit the long term future of Coventry. If those decisions also help the short term needs of the Football Club so much the better. But it has to be the long term future of ACL and the city of Coventry which is the driver for those decisions.'
skyblueman
New Member
Take out all the emotion and the loyalties for one moment and just think about it...
YOU are ACL, what would YOU do?
You'd go after CCFC for the money - it's obvious - that's what's going to happen
YOU are ACL, what would YOU do?
You'd go after CCFC for the money - it's obvious - that's what's going to happen
Wrenstreetcarpark
New Member
So the question is what will the Bank want ACL to do and what will ARVO (Seppala) want CCFC to do. The directors of ACL and CCFC are hostages to their creditors.
cloughie
Well-Known Member
If ACL have found a way to restructure their payment s the bank will probably push ACL to force the issue with sisu
Sisu/ seppall are gambling all ( as you said) on the ACL backing down and rolling over to every sisu wish