Ipswich Fan In Peace (14 Viewers)

[The Great Eastern]

That’s the ones. They were absolutely worldy - couldn’t help but like watching Ipswich with them playing. Was so happy when they beat Arse in the cup final 78. Beattie scored right?

Roger Osbourne wasn't it ? If I remember rightly, he hardly ever featured again due to depression altho either of the two Ipswich boys on this thread will put me right on that.

 

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[Jcap]

Roger Osbourne wasn't it ? If I remember rightly, he hardly ever featured again due to depression altho either of the two Ipswich boys on this thread will put me right on that.

You could be right - never heard much about him after that

 

[The Great Eastern]

You could be right - never heard much about him after that

Just checked him out on google. Definitely the cup final goal scorer. Not so sure about the depression but his career didnt take off despite being part of the successful ITFC squad under Bobby Robson.

 

[oscillatewildly]

Just checked him out on google. Definitely the cup final goal scorer. Not so sure about the depression but his career didnt take off despite being part of the successful ITFC squad under Bobby Robson.

I think he was subbed a couple of mins after scoring - 'exhaustion' or something?
I think it was even suggested that the occasion just got the better of him.

 

[oscillatewildly]

In the days when even as a neutral you 'invested' so much into cup final day. Mind you, for us this final was a 'double edged sword'.

 

[skybluesam66]

In the days when even as a neutral you 'invested' so much into cup final day. Mind you, for us this final was a 'double edged sword'.

it wasnt a double edged sword it was one big dagger - ipswich winning stopped us getting into Europe

 

[TownFan81]

Roger Osbourne wasn't it ? If I remember rightly, he hardly ever featured again due to depression altho either of the two Ipswich boys on this thread will put me right on that.

Roger is an absolutely lovely bloke and one of the nicest, most mild-mannered blokes you will ever wish to meet. If there was anyone less equipped to be famous I am yet to meet them.

If you asked a neutral to name an Ipswich side of the 70's, one that was in Europe 8 years out of 9 and beat Barcelona, Real Madrid, Lazio, Roma and many more during that time, they would name 10 and struggle to name Osborne. He was the unsung hero that did a lot of the dirty work, famously nullifying Johan Cruyff when we beat Barcelona.

He was an unlikely scorer in the cup final and after that his life changed completely. He was mobbed everywhere he went in the town (still the only time we've won it) and, as a very shy bloke, struggled with all the attention and the fuss. Some of you may recall that he was immediately subbed after scoring the winner in the cup final as he was on the verge of passing out from the emotion of it all.

Whether he had depression of not is not for me to say, but at 28 and coming up to the latter years of his career he went on loan to the States and then played out his career down the road at Colchester in the lower leagues.

If he'd not scored that goal he'd have been in the town team for years after but it seemed to be the end of him. He played on for a season or so but the attention was definitely a factor, if you ask me, in him moving away.

For years after he refused to talk to the media about his goal, which might mean there was something in it from a mental point of view (again highly speculative on my part and meant with the greatest respect), but about 10 years after he started to accept the regular invitations for Football Focus and so on to speak to him on FA Cup Final day and so on and has grown a bit more comfortable with his role as a real Town legend.

He's just a lovely, lovely man who never saw himself as a star, in a team of genuine world class players and whilst he is probably ecstatic about winning the cup, he's the sort of bloke that probably wishes someone else got the goal and he'd been left to pick up a medal quietly. He has often said that he felt out of place in that team because there were all these super stars around him and he was just a local lad from Otley (a small local village).

I played for him for a local team and am mates with two of his three sons, who I played alongside in the same team. He runs a local sports club now and even now looks uncomfortable when he is frequently reminded about THAT goal.

 

[oscillatewildly]

it wasnt a double edged sword it was one big dagger - ipswich winning stopped us getting into Europe

Yes, that's right. I used that particular idiom to express wanting the underdog to win but knowing it would screw things up for us as far as UEFA cup qualification.
Clearly, at the age of (almost) 12, I prized a new name on the cup more than our probable jolly to the barely known backwaters of Valletta or Charleroi.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Roger Osbourne wasn't it ? If I remember rightly, he hardly ever featured again due to depression altho either of the two Ipswich boys on this thread will put me right on that.

Didn't he feint after scoring the goal? It was covered on Phoenix from the Flames years ago

 

[TownFan81]

Yes, that's right. I used that particular idiom to express wanting the underdog to win but knowing it would screw things up for us as far as UEFA cup qualification.
Clearly, at the age of (almost) 12, I prized a new name on the cup more than our probable jolly to the barely known backwaters of Valletta or Charleroi.

I was born the year after we won the FA Cup.

What I recall from growing up is how much of a plucky underdog we were deemed to be going into that final. It was talked about in Manchester City v Wigan terms in all the media building up to it that my dad had kept hold of.

The reality is though we were consistently one of the top three clubs in that decade. 8 European campaigns in 9 seasons, numerous finishes of 3rd and 4th. We were better than Arsenal in most of those seasons by some distance.

The only thing that made us an underdog was it was the only season we finished outside the top 6, we were struggling that season, but still had a brilliant side. We finished 18th and Arsenal were 5th. The season before though we were 3rd and Arsenal 8th, the year before that we were 6th and they were 17th and the year after we won the cup we finished 6th and they finished 7th.

The way the media talked about it though was like we were a pub side going up against the champions. Very odd reporting looking back at it when we were consistently better than Arsenal in every season around that time except that one. We battered them 1-0 in the final, hitting the woodwork three times and missing an open goal.

The most enjoyable cup final I can ever recall though involved a certain Coventry City winning 3-2. What a game!

EDIT

1972-73 - Arsenal 2nd Ipswich 4th
1973-44 - Ipswich 4th Arsenal 10th
1974-75 - Ipswich 3rd Arsenal 16th
1975-76 - Ipswich 6th Arsenal 17th
1976-77 - Ipswich 3rd Arsenal 8th
1977-78 - Arsenal 5th Ipswich 18th

So in the four years prior to the Cup Final, we'd finished 4th on average and Arsenal 15th. Amazing that we were talked down so much on the basis of a poor season!

I'd imagine little Coventry were equally written off against the giants of Spurs in the same manner little Ipswich were?

 

[SonofErnie]

Ipswich were my boyhood 2nd club (I know shouldn't admit it). But in my opinion the early 80s team are one of the best English club sides ever, an absolute joy to watch. I was gutted when they finished 2nd to Villa, who were themselves a pretty decent team in those days.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I don’t have a lot of sympathy for Ipswich - in the end the fans demanded getting rid of McCarthy as he wasn’t playing the Ipswich way

So hopefully it’s better football now Ipswich. If McCarthy has stayed the club wouldn’t have been relegated - even last season fans were contacting 5 live saying the football was a breath of fresh air - Sutton obviously was pissing himself laughing

Weirdly I had this convo with my cousin and co- workers who support West Brom. Pulis had to go, whereas I couldn’t see why.

They said they saw the club stagnating and needed a change... loved Darren Moore

 

[TownFan81]

Ipswich were my boyhood 2nd club (I know shouldn't admit it). But in my opinion the early 80s team are one of the best English club sides ever, an absolute joy to watch. I was gutted when they finished 2nd to Villa, who were themselves a pretty decent team in those days.

Coventry were my second team on the basis that they were the first Subbuteo team I ever owned and in fact, when Ipswich were in the second tier, around the late 90's, as a teenager I briefly 'supported' Coventry as well. Back in the Dublin, Huckerby, Whelan, Hadji, Telfer days, before I realised how silly it was for craving a Premier League team and packed it in!

Will always have an affection for Coventry however. Even had the Subaru home shirt with the sky and blue stripes with the badge in it and the red and black checked shirt. Used to get some abuse wandering around my local area in those when everyone knew I was a diehard Ipswich fan home and away. From the same plastics that supported Man Utd and had never been to a game.

 

[TownFan81]

Weirdly I had this convo with my cousin and co- workers who support West Brom. Pulis had to go, whereas I couldn’t see why.

They said they saw the club stagnating and needed a change... loved Darren Moore

Thanks.

People outside the club believe the media hype that we forced out Mick and were ungrateful. Mick has a lot of mates in the media and is actually a really decent bloke.

What is telling is that we had 8,000 people inside the ground bored to tears when we were 12th in the Championship. Last season we finished rock bottom, were hopeless and had 20,000 fans inside the stadium creating the second best atmosphere we'd had in the previous 15 years!

That is telling. Ipswich and Mick was like a relationship where too much stuff had happened and you had to break up. That was never the issue. 99% of Town fans wanted McCarthy gone, acknowledging he did a wonderful job for 3 years and then started to destroy all the good will with the worst football I've ever seen and regularly sniping at the fans.

He had to go. We just completed ballsed up the replacement.

Even now, as a potentially mid table League One side nobody that supports Town is wishing McCarthy had stayed, which again is telling. Him staying would have just destroyed the fan base further. We needed change. We got it. Unfortunately it's not the change we hoped for!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This thread is what football ought to be about.

 

[steve cooper]

I was born the year after we won the FA Cup.

What I recall from growing up is how much of a plucky underdog we were deemed to be going into that final. It was talked about in Manchester City v Wigan terms in all the media building up to it that my dad had kept hold of.

The reality is though we were consistently one of the top three clubs in that decade. 8 European campaigns in 9 seasons, numerous finishes of 3rd and 4th. We were better than Arsenal in most of those seasons by some distance.

The only thing that made us an underdog was it was the only season we finished outside the top 6, we were struggling that season, but still had a brilliant side. We finished 18th and Arsenal were 5th. The season before though we were 3rd and Arsenal 8th, the year before that we were 6th and they were 17th and the year after we won the cup we finished 6th and they finished 7th.

The way the media talked about it though was like we were a pub side going up against the champions. Very odd reporting looking back at it when we were consistently better than Arsenal in every season around that time except that one. We battered them 1-0 in the final, hitting the woodwork three times and missing an open goal.

The most enjoyable cup final I can ever recall though involved a certain Coventry City winning 3-2. What a game!

EDIT

1972-73 - Arsenal 2nd Ipswich 4th
1973-44 - Ipswich 4th Arsenal 10th
1974-75 - Ipswich 3rd Arsenal 16th
1975-76 - Ipswich 6th Arsenal 17th
1976-77 - Ipswich 3rd Arsenal 8th
1977-78 - Arsenal 5th Ipswich 18th

So in the four years prior to the Cup Final, we'd finished 4th on average and Arsenal 15th. Amazing that we were talked down so much on the basis of a poor season!

I'd imagine little Coventry were equally written off against the giants of Spurs in the same manner little Ipswich were?

If I remember correctly the only football expert who said we would beat Spurs was the great Brian Clough.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Thanks.

People outside the club believe the media hype that we forced out Mick and were ungrateful. Mick has a lot of mates in the media and is actually a really decent bloke.

What is telling is that we had 8,000 people inside the ground bored to tears when we were 12th in the Championship. Last season we finished rock bottom, were hopeless and had 20,000 fans inside the stadium creating the second best atmosphere we'd had in the previous 15 years!

That is telling. Ipswich and Mick was like a relationship where too much stuff had happened and you had to break up. That was never the issue. 99% of Town fans wanted McCarthy gone, acknowledging he did a wonderful job for 3 years and then started to destroy all the good will with the worst football I've ever seen and regularly sniping at the fans.

He had to go. We just completed ballsed up the replacement.

Even now, as a potentially mid table League One side nobody that supports Town is wishing McCarthy had stayed, which again is telling. Him staying would have just destroyed the fan base further. We needed change. We got it. Unfortunately it's not the change we hoped for!

To be honest I’ll have to apologise - I bet on you to win the league... probably not Lamberts fault

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I don’t have a lot of sympathy for Ipswich - in the end the fans demanded getting rid of McCarthy as he wasn’t playing the Ipswich way

So hopefully it’s better football now Ipswich. If McCarthy has stayed the club wouldn’t have been relegated - even last season fans were contacting 5 live saying the football was a breath of fresh air - Sutton obviously was pissing himself laughing

From our own experiences, relegation presents a good opportunity to restructure things, just as Leicester, Southampton, Norwich and Leeds did.

For us, relegation to L2 was that opportunity and thankfully we didn’t waste it like we had when Thorn took us into L1.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Lambert cannot count himself unlucky.

We have an enormous squad for this level. We have had injuries but the depth to cover them is embarrassing. Andre Dozzell is constantly linked to Premier League clubs and he's not even been on the bench at times and when he has he's barely come on. We have players with squad numbers as high as 55.

Norwood has only just got injured having had a spell out earlier, Vincent-Young has missed a lot through injury and we've lost Huws and Bishop at times to injury but aside from that we've had what you'd say are 14 of our best 18 fit for most of the season.

We have taken 21 points from 22 games because of Lambert. Earlier in the season when we were flying he was continually dropping people for no reason, even after they'd scored.

Just look at how frequently our keepers changed in LEAGUE matches when we were doing well. He dropped Tomas Holy for no reason, after he'd kept 6 clean sheets in 11 and not put a foot wrong and then stuck with Will Norris despite several big mistakes. He brings Holy back for Wycombe, a top of the table clash and Holy was superb, saving a late penalty in a 0-0 draw and the next game Holy is dropped again! This is the keepers.

So imagine what he's done with outfield players. We've had players get man of the match and get dropped for a match the following weekend, not even mid-week. Players don't feel like if they play well they will keep their place. They are as likely to keep it after a poor performance than lose it after a good one which is abysmal man management and why he's lost the players.

I certainly won’t argue with that!

If the team selection is as haphazard as you say, then it isn’t a surprise you lot are struggling right now.

An old uni mate of mine supports Ipswich, said last week that Fleetwood and Coventry are ‘nail in the coffin’ games for Lambert. Hopefully, a Coventry win does both our clubs favours. We stay top for another week and you did yourselves of Lambert.

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

Roger is an absolutely lovely bloke and one of the nicest, most mild-mannered blokes you will ever wish to meet. If there was anyone less equipped to be famous I am yet to meet them.

If you asked a neutral to name an Ipswich side of the 70's, one that was in Europe 8 years out of 9 and beat Barcelona, Real Madrid, Lazio, Roma and many more during that time, they would name 10 and struggle to name Osborne. He was the unsung hero that did a lot of the dirty work, famously nullifying Johan Cruyff when we beat Barcelona.

He was an unlikely scorer in the cup final and after that his life changed completely. He was mobbed everywhere he went in the town (still the only time we've won it) and, as a very shy bloke, struggled with all the attention and the fuss. Some of you may recall that he was immediately subbed after scoring the winner in the cup final as he was on the verge of passing out from the emotion of it all.

Whether he had depression of not is not for me to say, but at 28 and coming up to the latter years of his career he went on loan to the States and then played out his career down the road at Colchester in the lower leagues.

If he'd not scored that goal he'd have been in the town team for years after but it seemed to be the end of him. He played on for a season or so but the attention was definitely a factor, if you ask me, in him moving away.

For years after he refused to talk to the media about his goal, which might mean there was something in it from a mental point of view (again highly speculative on my part and meant with the greatest respect), but about 10 years after he started to accept the regular invitations for Football Focus and so on to speak to him on FA Cup Final day and so on and has grown a bit more comfortable with his role as a real Town legend.

He's just a lovely, lovely man who never saw himself as a star, in a team of genuine world class players and whilst he is probably ecstatic about winning the cup, he's the sort of bloke that probably wishes someone else got the goal and he'd been left to pick up a medal quietly. He has often said that he felt out of place in that team because there were all these super stars around him and he was just a local lad from Otley (a small local village).

I played for him for a local team and am mates with two of his three sons, who I played alongside in the same team. He runs a local sports club now and even now looks uncomfortable when he is frequently reminded about THAT goal.

well said that man , good write up

 

[Houchens Head]

Roger is an absolutely lovely bloke and one of the nicest, most mild-mannered blokes you will ever wish to meet. If there was anyone less equipped to be famous I am yet to meet them.

If you asked a neutral to name an Ipswich side of the 70's, one that was in Europe 8 years out of 9 and beat Barcelona, Real Madrid, Lazio, Roma and many more during that time, they would name 10 and struggle to name Osborne. He was the unsung hero that did a lot of the dirty work, famously nullifying Johan Cruyff when we beat Barcelona.

He was an unlikely scorer in the cup final and after that his life changed completely. He was mobbed everywhere he went in the town (still the only time we've won it) and, as a very shy bloke, struggled with all the attention and the fuss. Some of you may recall that he was immediately subbed after scoring the winner in the cup final as he was on the verge of passing out from the emotion of it all.

Whether he had depression of not is not for me to say, but at 28 and coming up to the latter years of his career he went on loan to the States and then played out his career down the road at Colchester in the lower leagues.

If he'd not scored that goal he'd have been in the town team for years after but it seemed to be the end of him. He played on for a season or so but the attention was definitely a factor, if you ask me, in him moving away.

For years after he refused to talk to the media about his goal, which might mean there was something in it from a mental point of view (again highly speculative on my part and meant with the greatest respect), but about 10 years after he started to accept the regular invitations for Football Focus and so on to speak to him on FA Cup Final day and so on and has grown a bit more comfortable with his role as a real Town legend.

He's just a lovely, lovely man who never saw himself as a star, in a team of genuine world class players and whilst he is probably ecstatic about winning the cup, he's the sort of bloke that probably wishes someone else got the goal and he'd been left to pick up a medal quietly. He has often said that he felt out of place in that team because there were all these super stars around him and he was just a local lad from Otley (a small local village).

I played for him for a local team and am mates with two of his three sons, who I played alongside in the same team. He runs a local sports club now and even now looks uncomfortable when he is frequently reminded about THAT goal.

And I'm sure I will be echoed from all of us City fans when I say, give him our best wishes from CCFC!

 

[ITFCFan123]

I certainly won’t argue with that!

If the team selection is as haphazard as you say, then it isn’t a surprise you lot are struggling right now.

An old uni mate of mine supports Ipswich, said last week that Fleetwood and Coventry are ‘nail in the coffin’ games for Lambert. Hopefully, a Coventry win does both our clubs favours. We stay top for another week and you did yourselves of Lambert.

Fleetwood was that game I think. We needed to win both. Even if we win on Saturday it is very unlikely.

 

[SBAndy]

We only wanted that change because he didn't back Mick. Every Ipswich fan would concede that Mick did a good job at Ipswich. If Evans gave Mick money we would've got up. The problem was Mick was just treading along at the end with his lack of funds. It was inevitable that with the constant lack of investment we would end up here. If he had cash, Mick would probably still be here, but he was never going to get that and we weren't going anywhere so we just had to take a risk. Bare in mind the money that Evans received in transfer funds whilst Mick was here, it has just completely vanished.

Sorry to revert back to this, but it seems that the transfer fees you speak of didn’t “just vanish”. Looking at the accounts, you are making year-on-year losses and have a wage bill outstripping your turnover. Poor recruitment and wage control, ignoring the fact that there’s a lot of other overheads to running a business as well.

 

[ITFCFan123]

Sorry to revert back to this, but it seems that the transfer fees you speak of didn’t “just vanish”. Looking at the accounts, you are making year-on-year losses and have a wage bill outstripping your turnover. Poor recruitment and wage control, ignoring the fact that there’s a lot of other overheads to running a business as well.

I am not an expert on the finances if I am truly honest. But to essentially reinvest no money back in to the playing squad can't be good. I guess on my part that is a pretty empty statement. The general point I was trying to make was the lack of investment in times of need such as January 2015. he definitely keeps us steady. The grudges against Evans are as more for his football based decisions and lack of any football knowledge than finances. There is loads on twitter about ITFC finances and the debt, I wouldn't be able to give you a brilliant answer

 

[The Great Eastern]

This thread is what football ought to be about.

Huge thanks to the Ipswich boys for coming on here and having an honest discussion about our two clubs. Can I suggest they put up a thread on the Sunderland board and see how long it takes before they get told to f*** off or get jibes about Magpie supporter, Bobby Robson being in his box.

 

[ITFCFan123]

Roger Osbourne wasn't it ? If I remember rightly, he hardly ever featured again due to depression altho either of the two Ipswich boys on this thread will put me right on that.

For those talking about the FA Cup win.. this video always gets me.

What a player this guy was as well. Wow.

 

[Covstu]

Ipswich always seemed to be a club in the championship that just were always virtually mid table every season, always appeared like they just made up the numbers which was a massive fall from grace from the European days. Wasn’t surprised when they finally dropped down but a lot of their fans that I was speaking too said they would piss it! I think Sunderland and a lot of big clubs soon realised it wasn’t as easy as they first thought! Was worried when we played Ipswich but was disappointed in their lack of quality on the day. Having said all that, I would take a point at their place

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

Who was the goalie they all threw chewing gum at every match at Ipswich I saw it was bizarre

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

For those talking about the FA Cup win.. this video always gets me.

What a player this guy was as well. Wow.

I still can't get any ticket for Saturday , have you any advice ITFC123 , what's the chances of them giving out more ? Or could I be hopeful on matchday ?.
why when the ground will be only half full would your club turn down an extra 1000 away fans money. I'm only down the road in Norwich if you know where I could pick a ticket up before Saturday, thanks for any help

 

[mark82]

Jesus it could get messy on Saturday. We were saying last night a few of us. Fleetwood are a decent league one team but they are dross. Coventry are a good league one team but are actually quite good. May get embarrassing.

We just don't win by more than one goal. I can't explain why, but it doesn't happen.

 

[ITFCFan123]

I still can't get any ticket for Saturday , have you any advice ITFC123 , what's the chances of them giving out more ? Or could I be hopeful on matchday ?.
why when the ground will be only half full would your club turn down an extra 1000 away fans money. I'm only down the road in Norwich if you know where I could pick a ticket up before Saturday, thanks for any help

Assuming it is sold out online for away fans? You won't get any more, the max capacity we seem to be giving is just over 2000. Especially at this short notice. Your second question I 100% agree with. I would be giving as many as clubs want. It was the same in the champ last season and before but the only club we do that for is Leeds. As they didn't agree with our reciprocal £20 pricing last season so we charged them 40 as they did to us and fleeced them.

Unless anyone is giving out spares I would recommend sit in the home end which should be easy to get tickets for if not ideal. I will dig around tomorrow morning and see if I can see anything on away tickets and ask a few people.


EDIT// Just seen you have sold out and no more will be given. 1775 of you. Very good btw. Will still have a dig for you.

 

[SBAndy]

I am not an expert on the finances if I am truly honest. But to essentially reinvest no money back in to the playing squad can't be good. I guess on my part that is a pretty empty statement. The general point I was trying to make was the lack of investment in times of need such as January 2015. he definitely keeps us steady. The grudges against Evans are as more for his football based decisions and lack of any football knowledge than finances. There is loads on twitter about ITFC finances and the debt, I wouldn't be able to give you a brilliant answer

I think what I’m getting at is that it’s been reinvested by increasing the wage bill, but it’s evident that poor recruitment and poor top-level management of the football side are the main contributors. Are many of your players on high wages/long contracts? I know you have a colossal squad - is it a case of a plethora of thoroughly average players?

 

[HerneBayGaz]

Coventry were my second team on the basis that they were the first Subbuteo team I ever owned and in fact, when Ipswich were in the second tier, around the late 90's, as a teenager I briefly 'supported' Coventry as well. Back in the Dublin, Huckerby, Whelan, Hadji, Telfer days, before I realised how silly it was for craving a Premier League team and packed it in!

Will always have an affection for Coventry however. Even had the Subaru home shirt with the sky and blue stripes with the badge in it and the red and black checked shirt. Used to get some abuse wandering around my local area in those when everyone knew I was a diehard Ipswich fan home and away. From the same plastics that supported Man Utd and had never been to a game.

Supporting the mighty Sky Blues. You glory hunter:finger:

 

[ITFCFan123]

I think what I’m getting at is that it’s been reinvested by increasing the wage bill, but it’s evident that poor recruitment and poor top-level management of the football side are the main contributors. Are many of your players on high wages/long contracts? I know you have a colossal squad - is it a case of a plethora of thoroughly average players?

I make you right actually. A host of below average players being brought in for no apparent reason.

Another thing, money aside is the off the field maintaining of the club. It is filthy, and a bit worn down. Especially the north stand roof and the turnstiles and the window covers. He just let it get to a bad state. I know it sounds petty when there are clubs like yourself who don't have a ground right now. It is just a pride and care thing. When Lambert came in he called it a "disgrace".

For all of Lamberts failings, he gets it. He genuinely looks like he actually cares and this is clearly hurting. I feel bad for him, it is just a shame he isn't a great manager.

 

[ITFCFan123]

Ipswich always seemed to be a club in the championship that just were always virtually mid table every season, always appeared like they just made up the numbers which was a massive fall from grace from the European days. Wasn’t surprised when they finally dropped down but a lot of their fans that I was speaking too said they would piss it! I think Sunderland and a lot of big clubs soon realised it wasn’t as easy as they first thought! Was worried when we played Ipswich but was disappointed in their lack of quality on the day. Having said all that, I would take a point at their place

I agree. When we started so well I thought we would walk it.

But teams in this league have shown to be far more streetwise than us. Combined that with how other teams can seem to play the god awful refs in this league and we aren't smart enough.

I don't think there is a lot of quality in this league, us included. I think teams just have to smart about it. So many teams have come to PR, scored early and sat back, which I don't blame them for, they've earned the right to do that, we just cannot break them down.