Is the United Kingdom a country? (12 Viewers)

[robbiekeane]

Is this a really dumb question?


Wiki definition of the United Kingdom

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, commonly known as the United Kingdom (UK) or Britain is a sovereign country in north-western Europe, off the north-western coast of the European mainland.

Wiki definition of England

Englandis a country that is part of the United Kingdom.It shares land borders with Wales to its west and Scotland to its north.

I have trouble explaining this to my American friends. Are they both countries?

 

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[skybluetony176]

Is this a really dumb question?


Wiki definition of the United Kingdom



Wiki definition of England



I have trouble explaining this to my American friends. Are they both countries?

It’s one sovereign nation made up of 4 countries. Well, 3 now.

 

[Kneeza]

No, it's a complete fuck up.

 

[Evo1883]

It's a union of 4 countries.

The United Kingdom is not a country

 

[COV]

It's a union of 4 countries.

The United Kingdom is not a country

the way things are going there probably won't be a UK soon enough, separate countries

 

[Evo1883]

the way things are going there probably won't be a UK soon enough, separate countries

Well that's a different debate , but the answer to the question is as stated

 

[SBT]

It's a union of 4 countries.

The United Kingdom is not a country

The UK has its own government, its own armed forces, its own diplomatic treaties with other countries, sits on the UN Security Council....it absolutely is a country.

 

[Tea & Busquets]

Is this a really dumb question?


Wiki definition of the United Kingdom



Wiki definition of England



I have trouble explaining this to my American friends. Are they both countries?

The easiest explanation would be that it’s a country that’s comprised of other countries.

 

[Evo1883]

The UK has its own government, its own armed forces, its own diplomatic treaties with other countries, sits on the UN Security Council....it absolutely is a country.

Hmm, a political union maybe so .

But it's 4 individual countries.. not 1 or are we classing the UK as 5 countries in total including the collective

 

[SBT]

Hmm, a political union maybe so .

But it's 4 individual countries.. not 1 or are we classing the UK as 5 countries in total including the collective

They are countries within a country - that country being the UK

I'm sure you could even argue that England, Scotland and Wales aren't countries, but then we're getting into some real nerdy/stoner stuff

 

[Evo1883]

They are countries within a country - that country being the UK

I'm sure you could even argue that England, Scotland and Wales aren't countries, but then we're getting into some real nerdy/stoner stuff

I just don't think this is correct ..

Best described as a nation maybe ...but it's certainly not a country

 

[Evo1883]

See , even we can't agree so how are you supposed to tell your friend in America

 

[SBT]

I just don't think this is correct ..

Best described as a nation maybe ...but it's certainly not a country

I think it's better expressed the other way round - England, Scotland, Wales etc are clearly all nations, with their own cultures, languages, currencies etc. But they're not nation-states - England doesn't have its own government, Wales doesn't have its own army etc....I think when we talk about "countries", it's nation-states that we're really talking about.

 

[Evo1883]

I think it's better expressed the other way round - England, Scotland, Wales etc are clearly all nations, with their own cultures, languages, currencies etc. But they're not nation-states - England doesn't have its own government, Wales doesn't have its own army etc....I think when we talk about "countries", it's nation-states that we're really talking about.

Just ........

Yea , OK yea

 

[Philosoraptor]

Treaty of Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Philosoraptor]

To stir the murky waters a little bit more.

Darien scheme - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[robbiekeane]

See , even we can't agree so how are you supposed to tell your friend in America

Hahaha I feel less stupid at least! Can't be that dumb a question.

So...where did we land? Countries within a country?

 

[hill83]

Not at all.
To some extent.
Very much so.
Don't know.

 

[Liquid Gold]

As confusing as it is it's a country made up of countries.

England, Scotland & Wales are countries in their own right and the province of Northern Ireland together make up the UK which is itself a country.

 

[shmmeee]

England isn’t a state. It has territory and population but not a government or independence to engage in relations with other states.

Montevideo Convention - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Don’t think country has a definition. State is the closest.

 

[Dog]

The UK isn't a country. It is a sovereign state where the countries are separate but joined together in a union. Very similar but much smaller than the EU. Great Britain is the main landmass without Northern Ireland included.

 

[shmmeee]

The UK isn't a country. It is a sovereign state where the countries are separate but joined together in a union. Very similar but much smaller than the EU. Great Britain is the main landmass without Northern Ireland included.

Country doesn’t have an agreed movement. It’s just a defined bit of land basically.

The EU isn’t a sovereign state, it needs member states to agree so it’s not sovereign. It’s a political union. There’s no single government or population like the U.K.

England doesn’t have a government. England can’t enter trade deals or sign treaties like the U.K. can. It’s not sovereign.

 

[rob9872]

What about all the British Isles (even if Simon Moore is an IoW international), if the UK isn't a country then are all the Isles independent countries too?

 

[Dog]

Country doesn’t have an agreed movement. It’s just a defined bit of land basically.

The EU isn’t a sovereign state, it needs member states to agree so it’s not sovereign. It’s a political union. There’s no single government or population like the U.K.

England doesn’t have a government. England can’t enter trade deals or sign treaties like the U.K. can. It’s not sovereign.

I never meant that the EU is a sovereign state. What I meant was it is a union of countries. The clue is in the name. European Union.

All the countries of the EU follow similar rules just like the countries of the UK do.

The EU is governed by their own system. The countries in the EU are also independently governed. The UK are governed as one but there are also separate governments. The head of the UK government is the reigning monarch. That is why we are a sovereign state.

 

[Dog]

What about all the British Isles (even if Simon Moore is an IoW international), if the UK isn't a country then are all the Isles independent countries too?

IIRC the British Isles consists of Great Britain, Ireland and all islands in close proximity.

 

[Liquid Gold]

IIRC the British Isles consists of Great Britain, Ireland and all islands in close proximity.

Don't bring up that fact around an Irish person though, some of them lose their minds.

 

[rob9872]

IIRC the British Isles consists of Great Britain, Ireland and all islands in close proximity.

It does, agreed, but I meant if we're splitting up th Isles for the purpose of separate countries, then each can claim their own right. If I recall, Isle of Man has some of its own laws and also Cornwall also see themselves as independent, but I'm sure that's more like the Catalans or Bavaria type and wheee does it end? It makes economic sense to remain united as so many costs would be duplicated and each would need it'd own laws, security, money, armed horses etc etc

 

[Dog]

Don't bring up that fact around an Irish person though, some of them lose their minds.

Religion and politics are the two subjects to keep away from in more than Ireland.

 

[rob9872]

Religion and politics are the two subjects to keep away from in more than Ireland.

Yep throw in women and money as subjects to avoid along with politics and religion and I reckon we'd all get along famously!

 

[Dog]

It does, agreed, but I meant if we're splitting up th Isles for the purpose of separate countries, then each can claim their own right. If I recall, Isle of Man has some of its own laws and also Cornwall also see themselves as independent, but I'm sure that's more like the Catalans or Bavaria type and wheee does it end? It makes economic sense to remain united as so many costs would be duplicated and each would need it'd own laws, security, money, armed horses etc etc

It is more of a way of explaining the separate land mass than anything else. But it can be used to cause arguments more than anything else. Just like those who say anything above Watford Gap is up north.

 

[Dog]

Yep throw in women and money as subjects to avoid along with politics and religion and I reckon we'd all get along famously!

If it wasn't for women I would be rich and happy. I could stay in the pub all day. I would never miss a game we play. I would even be allowed to think for myself.

 

[rob9872]

If it wasn't for women I would be rich and happy. I could stay in the pub all day. I would never miss a game we play. I would even be allowed to think for myself.

Nah you wouldn't, be that bloke in the pub people avoid reminiscing about the woman you used to have and spending your hard earned on hookers and Charlie

 

[shmmeee]

I never meant that the EU is a sovereign state. What I meant was it is a union of countries. The clue is in the name. European Union.

All the countries of the EU follow similar rules just like the countries of the UK do.

The EU is governed by their own system. The countries in the EU are also independently governed. The UK are governed as one but there are also separate governments. The head of the UK government is the reigning monarch. That is why we are a sovereign state.

There aren’t separate govts, there’s no English govt and Scot/Wales/NI can’t make their own trade deals or sign their own treaties, they aren’t sovereign any more than Coventry is because of CCC.

The U.K. is a sovereign state like France or the US or China, the EU isn’t. It’s closer to the UN or NATO or other supranational bodies. The EU has no power over member states like the U.K. does over E/S/W/etc. Two totally different beasts. Rules made by the EU have to be passed by member state governments to become law.

The U.K. is a state like other countries because it passes the four tests, the EU doesn’t and neither do the countries in the U.K.

 

[Dog]

There aren’t separate govts, there’s no English govt and Scot/Wales/NI can’t make their own trade deals or sign their own treaties, they aren’t sovereign any more than Coventry is because of CCC.

The U.K. is a sovereign state like France or the US or China, the EU isn’t. It’s closer to the UN or NATO or other supranational bodies. The EU has no power over member states like the U.K. does over E/S/W/etc. Two totally different beasts. Rules made by the EU have to be passed by member state governments to become law.

The U.K. is a state like other countries because it passes the four tests, the EU doesn’t and neither do the countries in the U.K.

The UK is a sovereign state as the Head of the UK government is the reigning monarch like I said earlier. That is why our PM needs permission off the Queen.

And again I said we are similar to the EU as we are a union of countries. Nothing else.

I haven't said that England has its own government. But you keep bringing it up. The Welsh have a government. The Scottish have their own government. Northern Ireland is governed by the Northern Ireland assembly. Their situation is much more complex because of the troubles.

 

[COV]

The UK is a sovereign state as the Head of the UK government is the reigning monarch like I said earlier. That is why our PM needs permission off the Queen.

And again I said we are similar to the EU as we are a union of countries. Nothing else.

I haven't said that England has its own government. But you keep bringing it up. The Welsh have a government. The Scottish have their own government. Northern Ireland is governed by the Northern Ireland assembly. Their situation is much more complex because of the troubles.

I haven’t even got a clue if you two are agreeing or disagreeing