Is There Anything SISU Could Do? (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Malaka
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Nick
Administrator
But when most people rant what are they actually ranting about? I honestly haven't seen him have all of the "SISU Stooge" type stuff along the lines of somebody like Fisher.
I can understand somebody wanting a completely clean slate from anybody who has been here through everything in terms of CCFC fans but has it stopped Hoffman in his day to day business when getting jobs that he was Vice chairman (I think) of CCFC?
Most of the annoyance I can see about Hoffman is all of the bid stuff and the games and then some about the academy when he was here.
If from nowhere it was announced he had bought the club and was the new chairman I'd say the negative stuff would be minimal.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Why would he have all the stuff that Fisher has had? He was never had the involvement in the day to day running that Fisher has had. There's still people out there though who don't want him involved in the club because he has been in the past under SISU. One of who has already put his hand up. It's nonsense to suggest getting involved with the club under SISU won't tarnish your reputation. Many won't forgive and forget Hoffman for it and many many more won't forgive Elliot for it. Anybody who's been involved with the boardroom under SISU haven't exactly come out of it well have they? Steve Waggots probably come out with the best reputation of any of them. No wonder we're a mess.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Yeah, my first question of anybody getting involved with SISU would be 'why'?
Nick
Administrator
But you are talking about reputation in terms of CCFC aren't you, with fans etc?
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Hence why someone like Fisher, with no local affinity to the area, is far better suited to enacting SISU's 'vision' than, say, John Clarke, who resigned as soon as it all started to blow up.
Association with SISU could have a permanent detrimental affect on your career if you're just locally based. If you fancy a career in Derivatives, maybe not...
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
They'd be the first to deliver a top six finish in many a year, so in the eyes of some fans they'd be heroes, what with that and a cup win at Wembley...
Do I really need the disclaimer?!?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Especially if you depend on your reputation locally to conduct your business. Why would you? It would be completely illogical from a self preservation point of view when inevitably you're going to be tarnished with SISU's brush.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
But that also depends on how you carry yourself as an individual while at CCFC. For example if you go about it like Fisher and some of his statements then of course it's a non starter. If you try to relate to people on their level, communicate etc then it would make a massive difference. You could have Tim Fisher doing something and then A N other going about exactly the same thing and just the approach, communication, relationship could be totally different.
For example the break even stuff, Boddy is obviously starting to try and find ways to make the break even figures higher and make the revenues go up with things like advertising, kevin keegan events, kit launch. Fisher just says "pie money". Both working with the same "break even" restraint but one seeming to go about it a better way than the other.
Obviously some people will give it the "SISU puppet" stuff from the off, but a lot would probably judge on what they could do as an individual and like some are seeing with Boddy at the minute.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="Nick, post: 1403657, member: 1"]But you are talking about reputation in terms of CCFC aren't you, with fans etc?[/QUOTE]
So all the "We batter people in court" started when they took charge of CCFC? Do you think we're blind to what they've done to businesses prior to them taking and "Conning shareholders" out of their shares?
So all the "We batter people in court" started when they took charge of CCFC? Do you think we're blind to what they've done to businesses prior to them taking and "Conning shareholders" out of their shares?
Nick
Administrator
How is that related to the context of my post?
Mr T - Sukka!
Active Member
Is there anything SISU could do? No they have totally destroyed any bridges.
Realtionship with fans - dead.
Relationship with telegraph - shot.
Relationship with council - non exsistant.
Relationship with wasps - none.
Anyone see a pattern?
Realtionship with fans - dead.
Relationship with telegraph - shot.
Relationship with council - non exsistant.
Relationship with wasps - none.
Anyone see a pattern?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Whilst any improvement in the team is welcome, as too is an improvement in relations between CCFC and its fans, could I forgive and forget SISU's part in our demise?................ NO
I think people should consider the old adage " a leopard never changes its spots" ............. SISU are here for one thing only and that is to gain benefit for the funds they manage. That is not going to change if things improve, stay the same or indeed if they got worse. SISU management have no affinity for the club, its history or team. CCFC is an investment tool to be used focussed on their investors best interests, they will continue to make decisions on the basis of SISU investors first, sometimes those interests coincide with the best interests of CCFC.
I really do not understand why because we get a few results people assume that SISU objectives and commitments have changed - it simply doesn't work that way. It hasn't changed. A little success for the fans after such a long time will not change that
Whilst SISU have not called in the loans and we believe not paid down the interest debt, they have as far as we know not provided more funds. Yes we have signed players, on the back of wage cuts, cancelled contracts etc funded by the Wembley trip, ST sales, player sales & add ons. Put simply we had to sign players simply to have a team. I accept that they have appointed MR and allowed him to commence a rebuild, but in the lowest division we have been in for decades. As yet nothing has been achieved and the problems have not changed or gone away even if currently results have started heading in the right direction.
They have parked the club in the bottom division, and at the moment got lucky that MR came back to rebuild it. They are still playing a game of bluff/risk with key decision makers based on an assessment of "they wouldn't dare"
The feel good factor of the team should not disguise the problems and the major cause of those problems. Anything they did do would not be a step forward as such but a step back to what was essential. Anything that they could do would simply be a given for many other clubs. Anything they need to do is in large part due to the awful management and decisions they have brought and would be simply to rectify their own mistakes . Should anyone give them credit or an easier time simply because the team wins a few games? or because SISU decide that they have an obligation to provide the essential basics of a professional football team? I think not
So no I neither forgive nor forget, there is nothing they are remotely likely to do that would change that for me. A little success is not going to change that
I think people should consider the old adage " a leopard never changes its spots" ............. SISU are here for one thing only and that is to gain benefit for the funds they manage. That is not going to change if things improve, stay the same or indeed if they got worse. SISU management have no affinity for the club, its history or team. CCFC is an investment tool to be used focussed on their investors best interests, they will continue to make decisions on the basis of SISU investors first, sometimes those interests coincide with the best interests of CCFC.
I really do not understand why because we get a few results people assume that SISU objectives and commitments have changed - it simply doesn't work that way. It hasn't changed. A little success for the fans after such a long time will not change that
Whilst SISU have not called in the loans and we believe not paid down the interest debt, they have as far as we know not provided more funds. Yes we have signed players, on the back of wage cuts, cancelled contracts etc funded by the Wembley trip, ST sales, player sales & add ons. Put simply we had to sign players simply to have a team. I accept that they have appointed MR and allowed him to commence a rebuild, but in the lowest division we have been in for decades. As yet nothing has been achieved and the problems have not changed or gone away even if currently results have started heading in the right direction.
They have parked the club in the bottom division, and at the moment got lucky that MR came back to rebuild it. They are still playing a game of bluff/risk with key decision makers based on an assessment of "they wouldn't dare"
The feel good factor of the team should not disguise the problems and the major cause of those problems. Anything they did do would not be a step forward as such but a step back to what was essential. Anything that they could do would simply be a given for many other clubs. Anything they need to do is in large part due to the awful management and decisions they have brought and would be simply to rectify their own mistakes . Should anyone give them credit or an easier time simply because the team wins a few games? or because SISU decide that they have an obligation to provide the essential basics of a professional football team? I think not
So no I neither forgive nor forget, there is nothing they are remotely likely to do that would change that for me. A little success is not going to change that
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Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Of course it's related. You're saying it's within the context of CCFC. I'm saying we're not all short sighted not to see the bigger picture.
Nick
Administrator
Nope, you still aren't understanding the context of it.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Oh dear you and Grendel were getting on so well
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
I agree entirely, although I would suggest atm there's more a relief we aren't sliding any further - there appears (anecdotally at least) a lot less of the 'SISU have learned from their mistakes' that we had when Mowbray started the season well.
Now I would respectfully disagree with you wrt the manager and players - I happen to think that the football side of things, considering the constraints from above, is managed relatively sensibly. It's just whenever a head of steam gets going, external factors pull the rug from under it! Of course, we'll never get to test whether my assumption that under other owners Fisher would have actually been... alright as a Chairman or CEO. I suspect many (most) will be rather relieved about that
But to argue that would detract from the general point. It's to Robins's credit we're doing well. That's despite of the owners, not because of them. The general trend is undeniably downwards and, while league position can be recovered in time, goodwill is harder to recover.
If we get our first top six finish in an eternity this season, and having won a cup last season, on bare results you could argue SISU would have been our most successful owners since Derrick Robins. That, of course, would be madness...
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Not sure we actually disagree NW. I think MR and the team he heads are doing a good job and despite the constraints showing positive movements. But the OP was specifically talking about SISU so my comments are at their level of management
I think the key phrase you used is "That's despite of the owners, not because of them"
I think the key phrase you used is "That's despite of the owners, not because of them"
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
OK, fair enough then
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
no one Nick but that's not the point. The premise is that both consciously and sub consciously if the team do well because of the fine work by MR & co then SISU get an easier ride. If they then sweetened things then people might be inclined to forgive and forget.......... especially if SISU actually stay very quiet. Personally I cant do that, but equally I do not allow it to spoil my enjoyment of sport either
Whether the team does well or not is irrelevant to SISU objectives, those haven't and wont change. They can be pressed on with the minimum of fuss and scrutiny far easier if the team is doing well, that's just a fact of life. Football fans want to see their team do well on the pitch, and very understandably are not in the main part bothered about off the pitch matters. In fact there is a sense at the moment that fans are so tired of it all they veer away from the problems/challenges whether they go to matches or not
SISU and the problems they bring have not disappeared but you would have to say currently are under far less proper scrutiny. Aside from the NOPMers there are no protests, and the protests are far harder to arrange and motivate if CCFC are winning for example
Whether the team does well or not is irrelevant to SISU objectives, those haven't and wont change. They can be pressed on with the minimum of fuss and scrutiny far easier if the team is doing well, that's just a fact of life. Football fans want to see their team do well on the pitch, and very understandably are not in the main part bothered about off the pitch matters. In fact there is a sense at the moment that fans are so tired of it all they veer away from the problems/challenges whether they go to matches or not
SISU and the problems they bring have not disappeared but you would have to say currently are under far less proper scrutiny. Aside from the NOPMers there are no protests, and the protests are far harder to arrange and motivate if CCFC are winning for example
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Yup, there was anger when we lost a couple of games early season, then it dissapated.
Now it could be argued that swinging too far into fury after a defeat or two is madness as well... but it does seem our owners get an easy ride if we've won a game.
They're still the same inept 'custodians' however. Personally I've got no problem with that being highlighted, win or lose.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
And for balance... no problem with other protagonists' ineptitude being highlighted win or lose, either!
One useful thing is if we win, build up momentum, and actually get some fans going and some exposure, it makes us harder to ignore when it comes to our place in the city.
Of course it also makes SISU's bartering material stronger too, so swings and roundabouts!
no problem with other protagonists' ineptitude being highlighted win or lose, either!One useful thing is if we win, build up momentum, and actually get some fans going and some exposure, it makes us harder to ignore when it comes to our place in the city.
Of course it also makes SISU's bartering material stronger too, so swings and roundabouts!
Nick
Administrator
Is the lack of protests when we do well the reason the whole "ccfc are forcing the legal action" approach is being taken and pushed?
People won't be as interested in protesting against ccfc if we are doing well, it doesn't mean people suddenly love sisu or forgive everything. They are just enjoying the football and ccfc so don't want to protest against that.
Not talking about you, but you can tell the desperation with some people when we do well.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I haven't seen anyone saying ccfc are forcing court action but Ccfc are clearly part of it.
But again it comes back to the OPs posting is there anything Sisu can do to get forgiveness and forgetfulness. The conundrum is all Ccfc supporters want to see the team succeed but success brings an easier ride for the biggest culprit in creating the current situation. Fact of life, and simply that people move on don't forget but don't remember so well and reprioritise. The reasons soften the picture blurs and success masks a multitude of things..... no different to any other club except this one is ours
But again it comes back to the OPs posting is there anything Sisu can do to get forgiveness and forgetfulness. The conundrum is all Ccfc supporters want to see the team succeed but success brings an easier ride for the biggest culprit in creating the current situation. Fact of life, and simply that people move on don't forget but don't remember so well and reprioritise. The reasons soften the picture blurs and success masks a multitude of things..... no different to any other club except this one is ours
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Well they could fuck off
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
No the lack of protests is due to JHW disbanding which is due to most not attending home matches any more.
If needed they are always just around the corner waiting.
Any protests now will be done by individuals there is no one overseeing what goes on.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
The fans that are left are perhaps happy with our lot. So many fans now have given up caring, I think relegation last year, totally avoidable in my opinion was the straw that broke the camels back. A serious promotion challenge might bring some interest back towards the back end of the season shan't be holding my breath though
LastGarrison
Well-Known Member
A mass suicide pact would be a start.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Only if someone comes in who can make all the decisions and they understand these things.....
The only way SISU can get any money back is success on the pitch and a charm offence.
Firstly Tim and Joy should step completely away and publically announce it. Even if they still meddle behind the scenes this should never be in public.
They need to buy the best talent around at the same level and below. Then sell these players on for a profit at the right moment and reinvest that profit into the the club to help achieve a top three/two budget.
This will take some initial investment however at this level the need not be massive.
The new public figures must go on a charm overdrive with the fans and do everything they can to maximise the crowds when the above tactic produces success. The makes them attractive to all partners they need help from.
They must also go on a charm overdrive with these partners.
The club needs to be committed long term to the Ricoh. It needs to be a conveyor belt for talent from the academy and lots of signings like Jodi Jones.
Jones should be the norm not the rare exception.
The only way SISU can get any money back is success on the pitch and a charm offence.
Firstly Tim and Joy should step completely away and publically announce it. Even if they still meddle behind the scenes this should never be in public.
They need to buy the best talent around at the same level and below. Then sell these players on for a profit at the right moment and reinvest that profit into the the club to help achieve a top three/two budget.
This will take some initial investment however at this level the need not be massive.
The new public figures must go on a charm overdrive with the fans and do everything they can to maximise the crowds when the above tactic produces success. The makes them attractive to all partners they need help from.
They must also go on a charm overdrive with these partners.
The club needs to be committed long term to the Ricoh. It needs to be a conveyor belt for talent from the academy and lots of signings like Jodi Jones.
Jones should be the norm not the rare exception.
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Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
OSB is right, they've parked the club in the lower leagues, maybe they are content to let City become a Div3 / Div 4 yo yo club, doesn't solve the ground issue though.