Issues Could Be Solved... (1 Viewer)

[RoboCCFC90]

Any application to build a new Coventry City stadium in Exhall would be considered with an open mind, according to head of planning at Nuneaton and Bedworth Borough Council.

Coun Bob Copland, chairman of planning at the council, also said that green belt and access hurdles which have thwarted previous planning applications at the former Hawkesbury golf course site could be overcome.

Coun Copland also represents the Poplar ward, where the Telegraph revealed club bosses were believed to be eyeing up the 71-acre swathe of land – just two miles away from the Ricoh Arena.

He said: “I have to keep an open mind if any application were to come in.

“The council has no choice, if any application comes in it would have to be looked at.... on its own merits and the council will follow the appropriate process. It would end up before the planning committee and everyone’s views would be taken into account.”


Previous applications for housing on the site have been turned down due to problems with access roads and green belt restrictions, but these issues could be overcome by a potential developer.

Coun Copland said: “There has always been issues down there to do with traffic; you can get out from both ends but there’s the level crossing which will be down even more with an increased amount of trains expected in the future.

“I do think that if you have enough money to throw at it you can solve virtually every problem.

“To my knowledge all of the land is green belt. In all honesty there is always room for manoeuvre with pieces of land.

“There was a previous application to the council for houses on the green belt there which was initially approved.”

He said his initial reaction to the news that the Sky Blues could be considering a move to Exhall was surprise.

He said: “I had not heard anything and it came as a complete surprise to me. But I would say, if there was a speculative enquiry put into planning it would not necessarily have been put to me until later in the process.

“It seems to be speculative at the moment and anything would be a long way off. My understanding is the club is looking at other areas too.

“I think our council hasn’t been absolutely clear. It’s a shame for supporters that it has come to this. I think the club should play in Coventry.”

 

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[oldskyblue58]

pretty much what we all thought then............. nothing detailed or formal has happened, most planning problems can be overcome with time and money, access is difficult and would require a big spend to change, several sites are thought to be being looked at apparently (is that other sites in Nuneaton & Bedworth area, if so which?), council has a set process to go through in any approach (successful or otherwise, formal or informal)

So given the access problems, the green belt issue, the residents objections, the proximity to the Ricoh, the amount that needs to be spent on infra structure, the lack of contact with the land owners, no formal details at N&B, previous planning history etc etc ............. is this really the site they have been seriously looking at?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

pretty much what we all thought then............. nothing detailed or formal has happened, most planning problems can be overcome with time and money, access is difficult and would require a big spend to change, several sites are thought to be being looked at apparently (is that other sites in Nuneaton & Bedworth area, if so which?), council has a set process to go through in any approach (successful or otherwise, formal or informal)

So given the access problems, the green belt issue, the residents objections, the proximity to the Ricoh, the amount that needs to be spent on infra structure, the lack of contact with the land owners, no formal details at N&B, previous planning history etc etc ............. is this really the site they have been seriously looking at?

To answer your question OSB I don't think anyone but Sisu and Tim Fisher genuinely know and they're keeping their cards close to their chest, there needs to be more transparency but then again how many times have we said this in context to Sisu??

 

[SIR ERNIE]

To answer your question OSB I don't think anyone but Sisu and Tim Fisher genuinely know and they're keeping their cards close to their chest, there needs to be more transparency but then again how many times have we said this in context to Sisu??

to continue your poker analogy robbo, they're keeping their cards close to their chest because they're bluffing.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

to continue your poker analogy robbo, they're keeping their cards close to their chest because they're bluffing.

It might be a bluff, but perhaps they're waiting to play a Royal Flush on CCCouncil..

 

[Otis]

Any application to build a new Coventry City stadium in Exhall would be considered with an open mind, according to head of planning at Nuneaton and Bedworth Borough Council.

Coun Bob Copland, chairman of planning at the council, also said that green belt and access hurdles which have thwarted previous planning applications at the former Hawkesbury golf course site could be overcome.

Coun Copland also represents the Poplar ward, where the Telegraph revealed club bosses were believed to be eyeing up the 71-acre swathe of land – just two miles away from the Ricoh Arena.

He said: “I have to keep an open mind if any application were to come in.

“The council has no choice, if any application comes in it would have to be looked at.... on its own merits and the council will follow the appropriate process. It would end up before the planning committee and everyone’s views would be taken into account.”


Previous applications for housing on the site have been turned down due to problems with access roads and green belt restrictions, but these issues could be overcome by a potential developer.

Coun Copland said: “There has always been issues down there to do with traffic; you can get out from both ends but there’s the level crossing which will be down even more with an increased amount of trains expected in the future.

“I do think that if you have enough money to throw at it you can solve virtually every problem.

“To my knowledge all of the land is green belt. In all honesty there is always room for manoeuvre with pieces of land.

“There was a previous application to the council for houses on the green belt there which was initially approved.”

He said his initial reaction to the news that the Sky Blues could be considering a move to Exhall was surprise.

He said: “I had not heard anything and it came as a complete surprise to me. But I would say, if there was a speculative enquiry put into planning it would not necessarily have been put to me until later in the process.

“It seems to be speculative at the moment and anything would be a long way off. My understanding is the club is looking at other areas too.

“I think our council hasn’t been absolutely clear. It’s a shame for supporters that it has come to this. I think the club should play in Coventry.”

A 12,500 seater stadium sounds to me like they don't have 'enough money to throw at it.'

 

[RoboCCFC90]

A 12,500 seater stadium sounds to me like they don't have 'enough money to throw at it.'

Well they claim its modular and can be expanded based on the Club's success.

 

[duffer]

It might be a bluff, but perhaps they're waiting to play a Royal Flush on CCCouncil..

Possibly, but given they've already been called on their 'advanced discussions with landowners and councils' and found wanting, it's kind of hard to believe they're telling the truth this time.

All of the cards are against them at Exhall - previous planning rejection at the highest level, green belt, existing stadium nearby etc etc. If this is SISU's best hope of a location for a new stadium (and all of the evidence points that way), then I'd hate to see their worst.

Royal flush? Busted flush more like, imho.

 

[Otis]

Well they claim its modular and can be expanded based on the Club's success.

Yeah right.


Doesn't stack up Rob. Let's say we build the 12,500 seater stadium and that first year we are promoted to the Championship. We all know we could regularly get crowds of 20,000+ in the higher level, especially if the momentum of the success carries on into the Championship (as quite often happens).

They say it would take 6 months or so to expand the stadium. During this 6 months the capacity of the 12,500 seater stadium would be greatly reduced. We could therefore be playing in the Championship in front of crowds of 7,000 for most of the season.

It's a nonsense that they think they can just bolt something on the minute we have any success. It just doesn't work like that.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Just how much would a new canal bridge cost, new access over or under the railway line cost, road widening black horse lane and improvements to the Coventry Road...... there might be grants available, the Council might pay some if they thought the economic case merited it....... but usually the developer bares a substantial part of it, all those problems will add millions to the basic cost of the project at that site. You might say ah but that's the developer not the club, well just who will the developer pass that cost on to in order to make their profit?

 

[Moff]

Well they claim its modular and can be expanded based on the Club's success.

Based on our recent successes of the last ten years, and the plans of our current owners it looks like it wont be expanded for many many years then

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Yeah right.


Doesn't stack up Rob. Let's say we build the 12,500 seater stadium and that first year we are promoted to the Championship. We all know we could regularly get crowds of 20,000+ in the higher level, especially if the momentum of the success carries on into the Championship (as quite often happens).

They say it would take 6 months or so to expand the stadium. During this 6 months the capacity of the 12,500 seater stadium would be greatly reduced. We could therefore be playing in the Championship in front of crowds of 7,000 for most of the season.

It's a nonsense that they think they can just bolt something on the minute we have any success. It just doesn't work like that.

I do get where you're coming from Otis, as many have said it's hard to beleieve such stadium will be built at all, I hope not personaly..

 

[The Gentleman]

Just how much would a new canal bridge cost, new access over or under the railway line cost, road widening black horse lane and improvements to the Coventry Road...... there might be grants available, the Council might pay some if they thought the economic case merited it....... but usually the developer bares a substantial part of it, all those problems will add millions to the basic cost of the project at that site. You might say ah but that's the developer not the club, well just who will the developer pass that cost on to in order to make their profit?

Exactly, the budget cost we have been given is for the 12k ground. The infrastructure around it with rail, canal, road and walkways will be massive. It appeared that the councilor was alluding to this by mentioning all the possible difficulties. Of course they have to look at it, that don't mean it will happen. The bit about everyone's view being taken into account also tells me that me that there will be an awful lot of objection to this happening. Unfortunately for Sisu, this will be pretty much what they will encounter wherever they look.

 

[Otis]

I do get where you're coming from Otis, as many have said it's hard to beleieve such stadium will be built at all, I hope not personaly..

Me neither. We all know in our heart of hearts that it would be a cheap build and very poor in comparison to the Ricoh.

The objective has to be for us to have a successful team out there on the pitch. Everything else follows as a result (Larger attendances, more income etc.).

We all know the minute we have any success there is very much the potential for 30,000 crowds for big games.

Everything points to the Ricoh.

The costs involved with the designing, planning, building of a new stadium and changes to infrastructure of roads and access etc., plus battles over objections and suchlike, makes this whole thing a total no-brainer.

100% of effort from all sides should be to get us back to the Ricoh as a matter of urgency.

 

[Hobo]

It makes no economic sense to go the route they are going. It's a big spend and doesn't get them their money back. It's cheaper to throw a smaller portion at the Ricoh. But they are just trying to get the price down.

The reason being, they haven't got the money to buy the Ricoh let alone a new stadium, even a 12000 seater.

 

[oldskyblue58]

This expansion idea they have. So the original cost of the stadium is £25m (I suspect it might be more than that but say it is) every year or two expansion is required eg from 12000 to 15000 well that has costs doesn't it? say that costs £1m minimum to expand each time to put in more seats, open walk ways, improve health & safety issues etc that still has to be financed by the club. Where does that finance come from? more borrowing? Also will increase annual running costs to some degree (increased staffing, utilities, insurance, health safety costs etc) ok that will be covered by the increased income that required the expansion but there are additional costs and what happens if the club doesn't succeed on the pitch after expanding the stadium. All those capital and revenue costs must be paid for and that affects what can be spent on the squad unless there is more "investment" or loans or substantial increase in revenue from an additional 2500/5000 seats

 

[italiahorse]

Well they claim its modular and can be expanded based on the Club's success.

Any planning applications, roadworks etc would have to set up the infrastructure for the expanded stadium.

The cost of providing a bridge and roads under or over that railway would add another 50% to the stadium.
If you are considering that site you might as well consider behind Makro as you would only need to provide slip roads onto B4113 and A444 which are both duel carriageways off and onto M6.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=52.457578,-1.489205&spn=0.009296,0.01987&t=h&z=16

Both in Nuneaton and Bedworth, both have had planning refused, both Greenbelt.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Possibly, but given they've already been called on their 'advanced discussions with landowners and councils' and found wanting, it's kind of hard to believe they're telling the truth this time.

All of the cards are against them at Exhall - previous planning rejection at the highest level, green belt, existing stadium nearby etc etc. If this is SISU's best hope of a location for a new stadium (and all of the evidence points that way), then I'd hate to see their worst.

Royal flush? Busted flush more like, imho.

I hope you're right Duffer I am not interested in a new stadium and want the one that is about two minutes down the road from this site, leaving Sisu with no choice to negotiate for The Ricoh or sell up would be fantastic.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Me neither. We all know in our heart of hearts that it would be a cheap build and very poor in comparison to the Ricoh.

The objective has to be for us to have a successful team out there on the pitch. Everything else follows as a result (Larger attendances, more income etc.).

We all know the minute we have any success there is very much the potential for 30,000 crowds for big games.

Everything points to the Ricoh.

The costs involved with the designing, planning, building of a new stadium and changes to infrastructure of roads and access etc., plus battles over objections and suchlike, makes this whole thing a total no-brainer.

100% of effort from all sides should be to get us back to the Ricoh as a matter of urgency.

If only we could bang together the heads of people who could make this happen.

 

[The Gentleman]

This expansion idea they have. So the original cost of the stadium is £25m (I suspect it might be more than that but say it is) every year or two expansion is required from 12000 to 15000 well that has costs doesn't it? say that costs £1m minimum to expand each time to put in more seats, open walk ways, improve health & safety issues etc that still has to be financed by the club. Where does that finance come from? more borrowing? Also will increase annual running costs to some degree (increased staffing, utilities, insurance, health safety costs etc) ok that will be covered by the increased income that required the expansion but there are additional costs and what happens if the club doesn't succeed on the pitch after expanding the stadium. All those capital and revenue costs must be paid for and that affects what can be spent on the squad unless there is more "investment" or loans

As you seem to put numbers down on screen that I understand, could you be able to roughly work out if we built Legoland, what the costs would be for interest on loans for the stadium, interest on loans for Arvo (or whoever else), rent to new owners and any other costs. I am just curious to see how the numbers stack up against previous rents paid and offered in the past.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

As Otis has already said, size of stadium is paramount to being able to succeed. Blackpool took a few years to bring their stadium capacity up to approx 18k which is laughingly unsustainable for a Premiership Club with ambition at that time. The minimum size of a stadium and football club with any ambition of playing in the Premiership has to be 30k. Even to play in the Championship it has to be minimum 20k. We've proven to the owners that we can fill the Ricoh(Over 30k) for a "Piss pot Cup"...Getting to the OP's post of......"Issues Could Be Solved" It is extremely simple to solve....SISU should accept the last offer from CCC/ACL...Pay what they owe...eventually, instead of telling lies, actually pay the "Going rate for half share in the Ricoh" and pay for the share of "F+B", but this will not happen. When do SISU pay for anything!

 

[oldskyblue58]

Hawkesbury. Wouldn't a lot of the infra structure works need to be done before the stadium build? Otherwise how do they get the stadium construction traffic in and out of the Exhall site?

Say there was planning permission (likely to take years ), how long would the infra structure stuff take? so pushing off the date by which the stadium could be used.

Lot of money and time to be spent to make that site viable for a stadium let alone build one

 

[italiahorse]

Well they claim its modular and can be expanded based on the Club's success.

I would have thought in 5 years we could be back in the Premier League.

Starting with a 12,000 seater stadium seems strange to me unless Sisu are happy at this level.:thinking about:

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Well they expect to make millions from non football related opportunities? So that would pay for it, pay off the debt and make us one of the richest clubs in the country.

Happy days why haven/t other clubs tried this before??

This expansion idea they have. So the original cost of the stadium is £25m (I suspect it might be more than that but say it is) every year or two expansion is required from 12000 to 15000 well that has costs doesn't it? say that costs £1m minimum to expand each time to put in more seats, open walk ways, improve health & safety issues etc that still has to be financed by the club. Where does that finance come from? more borrowing? Also will increase annual running costs to some degree (increased staffing, utilities, insurance, health safety costs etc) ok that will be covered by the increased income that required the expansion but there are additional costs and what happens if the club doesn't succeed on the pitch after expanding the stadium. All those capital and revenue costs must be paid for and that affects what can be spent on the squad unless there is more "investment" or loans or substantial increase in revenue from an additional 2500/5000 seats

 

[italiahorse]

Hawkesbury. Wouldn't a lot of the infra structure works need to be done before the stadium build? Otherwise how do they get the stadium construction traffic in and out of the Exhall site?

Say there was planning permission (likely to take years ), how long would the infra structure stuff take? so pushing off the date by which the stadium could be used.

Lot of money and time to be spent to make that site viable for a stadium let alone build one

As I have said before you might as well go for another area in Nuneaton and Bedworth which has also had planning refused and better infrastrucure already.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=52.457578,-1.489205&spn=0.009296,0.01987&t=h&z=16

 

[oldskyblue58]

As you seem to put numbers down on screen that I understand, could you be able to roughly work out if we built Legoland, what the costs would be for interest on loans for the stadium, interest on loans for Arvo (or whoever else), rent to new owners and any other costs. I am just curious to see how the numbers stack up against previous rents paid and offered in the past.

Did something on it the other day. Say the project cost to finance for the club was £25m over 20years at 3% APR (quite cheap and over a decent period) that equates to repayments of £139k per month or £1.688m per year. At the end of 20 years they own the freehold. That's a total interest charge over 20 years of over £8.3m

Not going to get hung up on rents being charged between group members that's all internal, I prefer to look at the external debt eg loans from ARVO (don't think their rate is as low as 3% APR btw). The actual specifics of costs and running costs are any ones guess, we simply do not know, so your figures are as good as mine

So the question is how does the club finance cash flow of £1.688m per annum for the next 20 years if the build cost to them is 25m. That equates to ticket income from around 6100 fans every year for 20 years

 

[Spionkop]

The very notion that our owners are pushing a 12,500 stadium should be enough to have every self respecting City fan in uproar. It is an insult to the very name of the club, us fans and Coventry itself.
Fans should be boycotting Sixfields totally. Absolute disgrace.
Sisu have dragged us to the bottom.

 

[Captain Dart]

Well they claim its modular and can be expanded based on the Club's success.

The stadium can be expanded, but access roads have to be paid for up front. The cheapest way to get access is to find a site next to a major road and build a new junction.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The whole concept is so full of holes that it is barely worth discussion. SISU would need to pay a significant amount to improve the road infrastructure, I am not sure if this has been factored in to the £20m cost or not.

The 'modular' design is another red herring - where is the money going to come from to expand the stadium? How much of the rest of the stadium is out of action whilst expansion work is taking place?

 

[fernandopartridge]

The bit about everyone's view being taken into account also tells me that me that there will be an awful lot of objection to this happening. Unfortunately for Sisu, this will be pretty much what they will encounter wherever they look.

Exactly and it's exactly what they want.....

 

[skybluetony176]

pretty much what we all thought then............. nothing detailed or formal has happened, most planning problems can be overcome with time and money, access is difficult and would require a big spend to change, several sites are thought to be being looked at apparently (is that other sites in Nuneaton & Bedworth area, if so which?), council has a set process to go through in any approach (successful or otherwise, formal or informal)

So given the access problems, the green belt issue, the residents objections, the proximity to the Ricoh, the amount that needs to be spent on infra structure, the lack of contact with the land owners, no formal details at N&B, previous planning history etc etc ............. is this really the site they have been seriously looking at?

thats what i was thinking.

at most this statement is an invertation for sisu to talk to them. they made it quite clear in the 1st statement that there had only been an initial contact with no follow up. i think this statement shows a desire by N & B council to develop the land but you cant say it shows a desire by sisu to do it for them.

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

Me neither. We all know in our heart of hearts that it would be a cheap build and very poor in comparison to the Ricoh.

The objective has to be for us to have a successful team out there on the pitch. Everything else follows as a result (Larger attendances, more income etc.).

We all know the minute we have any success there is very much the potential for 30,000 crowds for big games.

Everything points to the Ricoh.

The costs involved with the designing, planning, building of a new stadium and changes to infrastructure of roads and access etc., plus battles over objections and suchlike, makes this whole thing a total no-brainer.

100% of effort from all sides should be to get us back to the Ricoh as a matter of urgency.

Totally agree Otis. RICOH is the only sensible approach. But SISU's desire to get it for very little is going to get in the way. Last week there was a thread that suggested Nene Park was an option. That cost 30 million and holds only 6,400, so a new stadium really is a fool hardy approach. SISU and CCC need to work together to come to a sensible & reasonable business arrangement. But I won't be holding my breath as SISU don't appear to do sensible or reasonable.

 

[exhallskyblue]

such a farce...

 

[James Smith]

The whole concept is so full of holes that it is barely worth discussion. SISU would need to pay a significant amount to improve the road infrastructure, I am not sure if this has been factored in to the £20m cost or not.

The 'modular' design is another red herring - where is the money going to come from to expand the stadium? How much of the rest of the stadium is out of action whilst expansion work is taking place?

Well CBRE are supposed to be helping so you'd think they'd have spotted the infrastructure fly in the ointment. Assuming that's actually the site that is under consideration.

 

[chiefdave]

So the question is how does the club finance cash flow of £1.688m per annum for the next 20 years if the build cost to them is 25m. That equates to ticket income from around 6100 fans every year for 20 years

You also have to add on the cost of the existing AVRO loan (that's more than £1.2m a year isn't it) plus the cost of any addtional borrowing to cover losses while at Sixfields. We're looking at £3m upwards a year. We're told £1.2m a year at the Ricoh was crippling the club yet this is affordable? We've been told the stadium is essentailly only a football stadium so the only extra revenue streams will be F&B and car parking, not convinced there's £3m plus profit in that a year to make this viable. That's before you even consider that SISU have been offered much lower rent than the £1.2m a year being paid before and access to matchday revenues.