It is all dead (4 Viewers)

[stupot07]

Of course its sisu's fault we're in the 3rd division. Who else's fault is it?

When you're revenue is in the bottom 3-4 in the league relegation at some point is almost inevitable.


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[RoboCCFC90]

I disagree.

I see why you would disagree but let's be honest the problem was there before Sisu arrived, I mean for instance it's not like we didn't flirt with the relegation zone of the Championship before Sisu took over?


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[play_in_skyblue_stripes]

I am sorry Stripes but you can't base an argument of whether we should be in the Premier League on population of the City..

We will be based on success and that is something we haven't had.

A young player can have all the talent to be able to make the highest grade but he still has to put it all together and it's the same with this Football Club, people can look at population and so on, but it makes no odds you need to make all the mixtures in the bag count and we haven't.

Can I also correct you on one thing, it's not ONLY Sisu as to why we are in the Third Tier, yes okay I accept that it's is their fault we were relegated to the third tier but this Club was a mess and we had fallen from the Top Flight and struggled to make a return before they even considered investment in our Club.


I agree population is not the sole determinate off course but it's a fairly good indication where a club should reside based on other things being roughly equal.

I completely disagree on regarding the responsibilities our current league status. They have been in charge for 6 years.
There are some people who have alleged relegation was a deliberate act to be used to claim rent was too high for level 3 club. Impossible to know, but In sure better decision making in last relegation season might have avoided it. I accept other relegated clubs could say the same with hindsight.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

When you're revenue is in the bottom 3-4 in the league relegation at some point is almost inevitable.


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I wasn't going to use that reason, but it does have an affect, but look at where the Club has been previous 5 years before Sisu took over in terms of final league position:

06/07 - 17th
05/06 - 8th
04/05 - 19th
03/04 - 12th
02/03 - 20th

Not a great picture is it, bar the 05/06 season.


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[play_in_skyblue_stripes]

I wasn't going to use that reason, but it does have an affect, but look at where the Club has been previous 5 years before Sisu took over in terms of final league position:

06/07 - 17th
05/06 - 8th
04/05 - 19th
03/04 - 12th
02/03 - 20th

Not a great picture is it, bar the 05/06 season.
V

No it's terrible

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[Cheshire Sky Blue]

And claiming that they would all travel on mass to a different town without any evidence to support such a claim is what exactly ?

Complete and utter bullshit, (not from you Bigfat..) but why would we be surprised. It is comparable with all the other crap

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I am sorry Stripes but you can't base an argument of whether we should be in the Premier League on population of the City..

We will be based on success and that is something we haven't had.

A young player can have all the talent to be able to make the highest grade but he still has to put it all together and it's the same with this Football Club, people can look at population and so on, but it makes no odds you need to make all the mixtures in the bag count and we haven't.

Can I also correct you on one thing, it's not ONLY Sisu as to why we are in the Third Tier, yes okay I accept that it's is their fault we were relegated to the third tier but this Club was a mess and we had fallen from the Top Flight and struggled to make a return before they even considered investment in our Club.


I agree population is not the sole determinate off course but it's a fairly good indication where a club should reside based on other things being roughly equal.

I completely disagree on regarding the responsibilities our current league status. They have been in charge for 6 years.
There are some people who have alleged relegation was a deliberate act to be used to claim rent was too high for level 3 club. Impossible to know, but In sure better decision making in last relegation season might have avoided it. I accept other relegated clubs could say the same with hindsight.

Insinuation's of such with regards to the Rent costs need proof, something no one has ever established, just a conspiracy.

I disagree with regards to population , you can only base your position in the sport based on your success in it, therefore we don't deserve to call ourselves a Premier League Club, but should this avenue need exploring any further then let us take attendances as an example when things were going well last season we managed 15,000+ in one League fixture (let's just base this on the league) however Wolverhampton a City with almost 90,000 less population then a Coventry can average almost 12,000 more supporters a week, how does that seem capable of a Club that as many on this thread have stated should be of "Premier League size" it's just not true.


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[stupot07]

Stupot - as you imply, you've repeated that piece of information a number of times.

I think that I'm right in saying that your implication is that disconnect between "attendance league position" and "revenue league position" is down to what has become known around these parts as "pie money".

You may well be right, but it occurs to me that other factors such as ticket prices may have played a (large?) part.

Have you been able to identify such other factors and rule them out? (not a dig - I'm not sure if this would be available).

I ask because whilst I would agree that the more revenue streams the club has access to the better, I'm not sure how much of a game changer it would be in reality.

If I get the chance I'll have a proper look at it. You're right it's not just F&B's as Wingy points out our ticket prices are one of the lowest, mainly because that's what the fans complained about, that and giving away free tickets, kids for a quid take a mate for £10, free season tickets for u7's etc that they have done to try and keep and entice new fans on the back drop of dropping revenue. Also things like lettings (meetings, functions, etc), concerts and U21's games (stadium MK gets these too, Shrewsbury also recently hosted U21's), stand sponsorship (look at some of the PL clubs, e.g cardiff is covered with it, we only get pitch side), hotel (Reading also have one - £5.2m income that brought in 2011/12).




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[thelookout]

When you're revenue is in the bottom 3-4 in the league relegation at some point is almost inevitable.


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Well they should of bought the higgs share when they took the club on then shouldn't they.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

No it's terrible

There in lies the issue, the Clubs free fall has been continuous over many years bar the odd indifference and to change the mindset of the Club over that period of time was difficult.

Even when we were in the Premier League it was the same, the one example I can relate us to in recent years is Wigan, they always managed to JUST survive in the Premier League but alas a cat has only so many lives, the difference between when we came down and since Wigan have come down is that they're trying to give it a go about getting back up there something I don't think we did to that length..


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[skybluebal]

Agree with the OP.

 

[stupot07]

Well they should of bought the higgs share when they took the club on then shouldn't they.

Yes they should have, along with slashing the wage bill and getting rid of big wages for below average players. I'm not sure owning half of ACL would be enough to tap into the funding as a) we wouldn't have been paying £1.3m rent (ACL's record profits are £1m) and 2) I'm not convinced the council would have approved then taking a dividend out or majorly destructing existing contracts.

Moreover, Robinson et al should have let the whole group of companies go into administration before sisu took over.


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[Samo]

By the way... its either 'it is dead', or 'they are all dead'. Just saying!

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Well they should of bought the higgs share when they took the club on then shouldn't they.

The Club should have never sold that share in ACL from the start, I know we were in financial trouble (a long winded conversation of which I'd avoid) but you have to question those who made that decision (I.e McGinnity and Robinson I believe) as to why that decision was made and why they believed that decision would benefit the Club long term?


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[RoboCCFC90]

By the way... its either 'it is dead', or 'they are all dead'. Just saying!

The poster with an Avatar with Zombies ought to know this in detail you'd think


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[DaleM]

If we are still in Northampton for another season , which is looking increasingly likely , CCFC will become irrelevant to a lot more people .

The worst nightmare would be no deal for the Ricoh. No start on the "Fishbowl". SISU losing the JR and Northampton being relegated.

I can see a deal with Cardoza happening then for a league club in Northampton .

 

[stupot07]

If we are still in Northampton for another season , which is looking increasingly likely , CCFC will become irrelevant to a lot more people .

The worst nightmare would be no deal for the Ricoh. No start on the "Fishbowl". SISU losing the JR and Northampton being relegated.

I can see a deal with Cardoza happening then for a league club in Northampton .

No chance. .



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[RoboCCFC90]

If we are still in Northampton for another season , which is looking increasingly likely , CCFC will become irrelevant to a lot mors people .

The worst nightmare would be no deal for the Ricoh. No start on the "Fishbowl". SISU losing the JR and Northampton being relegated.

I can see a deal with Cardoza happening then for a league club in Northampton .

How can that be possible, FA rules state that no party that has a connection to another Football Club in that Country can purchase another Club of that Country, so for instance Sisu owning us and Northampton.

It's scaremongering.


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[skybluetony176]

lets have a musical interlude

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EL20VKlvbs

 

[DaleM]

How can that be possible, FA rules state that no party that has a connection to another Football Club in that Country can purchase another Club of that Country, so for instance Sisu owning us and Northampton.

It's scaremongering.


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Who said anything about SISU owning us and Northampton . I said doing a deal with Cardoza . That could mean do a deal for non league Northampton and amalgamate the two into one. Stranger things happen . As I said if no Ricoh, No JR , No new stadium what is going to happen then . Dissolve CCFC ?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Who said anything about SISU owning us and Northampton . I said doing a deal with Cardoza . That could mean do a deal for non league Northampton and amalgamate the two into one. Stranger things happen . As I said if no Ricoh, No JR , No new stadium what is going to happen then . Dissolve CCFC ?

Non League or Football League there are FA Rules against it Dale, it's not possible.

Bar the fact it isn't possible there is no real incentive that I can foresee in that illustrious idea to be honest, Northampton is predominantly a Rugby orientated Sporting Town not a Football one. Plus there is no financial benefit I can see moving us to Northampton as certainly all Cobblers and Sky Blue fans would write off any merged establishment.


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[DaleM]

lets have a musical interlude

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EL20VKlvbs

Good choice :guitar2:

 

[play_in_skyblue_stripes]

Insinuation's of such with regards to the Rent costs need proof, something no one has ever established, just a conspiracy.

I disagree with regards to population , you can only base your position in the sport based on your success in it, therefore we don't deserve to call ourselves a Premier League Club, but should this avenue need exploring any further then let us take attendances as an example when things were going well last season we managed 15,000+ in one League fixture (let's just base this on the league) however Wolverhampton a City with almost 90,000 less population then a Coventry can average almost 12,000 more supporters a week, how does that seem capable of a Club that as many on this thread have stated should be of "Premier League size" it's just not true.

Sorry I thought we were a premier club for 34 years. We were successful, Only Everton and Liverpool had bettered that when relegated. Arsenal position in top flight originally has some dubious dark factors.
Man United and Tottenham have now also achieved 30 years plus top level status.
That recent tenure over a significant period in top level cements our position of being of being a top level club or top level potential statue all things being equal.

Population has a positive relationship with potential fan base and revenue. Those feed into the likelihood of top level status. Sure other factors but it's a pretty major one.



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[Samo]

The poster with an Avatar with Zombies ought to know this in detail you'd think


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You're dead right. But they are only Hammer zombies!

 

[DaleM]

Non League or Football League there are FA Rules against it Dale, it's not possible.

Bar the fact it isn't possible there is no real incentive that I can foresee in that illustrious idea to be honest, Northampton is predominantly a Rugby orientated Sporting Town not a Football one. Plus there is no financial benefit I can see moving us to Northampton as certainly all Cobblers and Sky Blue fans would write off any merged establishment.


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Good but if all of the scenarios happen , lose JR , no Ricoh deal , no new stadium, what happens next then ? Groundshare losing millions forever ?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Good but if all of the scenarios happen , lose JR , no Ricoh deal , no new stadium, what happens next then ? Groundshare losing millions forever ?

As my father would say to me Dale "Don't look ahead before you have entered the unknown" in essence, there is no point looking beyond the JR when none of us can predict outcomes, stipulations or any public damage.


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[skybluetony176]

Good choice :guitar2:

this one should be the suxfields anthem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJVpihgwE18

 

[RoboCCFC90]

We were a Premier League Club for 34 years, but does that generate success? Well looking at our history of League finishes out of the 34 years we spent in the top division on 10 occasions we did finish in positions above the bottom third of the table.

So for 24 years we finished in a league position that suggested we looked over our shoulders, simply not good enough. In the first 5-10 years we should have looked to stabilise and push on it but it never happened, there in lies that trend of which we always had to look over our shoulder and that fight to avoid relegation was something Coventry City consistently fought in.

You also state Clubs like Liverpool, Everton, Manure and Spurs but they have been bigger Clubs than ours for many years, their success and history proves that without having to look at League standings over a set time.

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[bigfatronssba]

The Club should have never sold that share in ACL from the start, I know we were in financial trouble (a long winded conversation of which I'd avoid) but you have to question those who made that decision (I.e McGinnity and Robinson I believe) as to why that decision was made and why they believed that decision would benefit the Club long term?


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The deal was done because them pair were about to lose the money they had put into the club. (had the council not voted to allow Higgs to become a shareholder in ACL, administration proceedings were due to start against the club the next day).

Basically Robinson and McGinnity had put money in, completely messed up the whole club, and then thought they deserved a return on their investment.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

The deal was done because them pair were about to lose the money they had put into the club. (had the council not voted to allow Higgs to become a shareholder in ACL, administration proceedings were due to start against the club the next day).

Basically Robinson and McGinnity had put money in, completely messed up the whole club, and then thought they deserved a return on their investment.

Thank you for the accurate recollection Ron it has to be said that my brain and memory is fried with everything that has happened over the last couple of seasons not to mention beyond that, but alas that mindset of McGinnity and Robinson shows the mindset of Sisu and Brian Richardson beforehand of which every owner wanted to make sure they took something out of our Football Club.

I think it would have been much better had we of gone into Administration back then or before Sisu were to take the Club on that way it would of highlighted the financial issues and strains on the Club and within good will and positive air, new terms may have been agreed upon, problem is we ended up with a situation which was completely the opposite and what could of been was never likely.


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[skybluericoh]

No, it was last year. Our season ticket prices were some of the most competitive in the Championship/L1 and £5 for the JPT sold the place out - unfortunately our supporters were not convinced.
The Big Club mentality has for years seen us bypassed by smaller clubs but at least their fans stuck by them in troubled times. Would Leeds fans boycott Sixfields if Leeds moved to Wakefield? Of course they wouldnt.

No they wouldn't need boycott they would have had whoever burnt at the stake, and stayed a eland road.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Thank you for the accurate recollection Ron it has to be said that my brain and memory is fried with everything that has happened over the last couple of seasons not to mention beyond that, but alas that mindset of McGinnity and Robinson shows the mindset of Sisu and Brian Richardson beforehand of which every owner wanted to make sure they took something out of our Football Club.

I think it would have been much better had we of gone into Administration back then or before Sisu were to take the Club on that way it would of highlighted the financial issues and strains on the Club and within good will and positive air, new terms may have been agreed upon, problem is we ended up with a situation which was completely the opposite and what could of been was never likely.


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Would have almost certainly been better.

At that point in 2003 we would have gone into admin whilst owning half the Ricoh project. The club in admin at that point would have been at its most attractive since HR was sold and more attractive than its ever been since. Admin wiping out most of the debt, planning and design of the new stadium all in place etc.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Would have almost certainly been better.

At that point in 2003 we would have gone into admin whilst owning half the Ricoh project. The club in admin at that point would have been at its most attractive since HR was sold and more attractive than its ever been since. Admin wiping out most of the debt, planning and design of the new stadium all in place etc.

Any logical being would have seen this as the best way forward but as I type this I realise that no CCFC Owner of the last 20 years has had any logical sense worth mentioning.


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