Joe Elliott (3 Viewers)

lordsummerisle · Aug 17, 2011

rob9872 said:
Separate

Not a spelling forum, been through this 1,000 times before, but if you're going to criticise, then it's better not to make such mistakes.

Did notice it after I'd typed it, but would have been unfair to edit it really, hoist by my own petard.

les_miserables · Aug 17, 2011

lordsummerisle said:
Exactly my thoughts, most of the SISU lovers who have dramatically changed their minds are ready to go with another bunch of faceless "investors", with no questions asked, being pushed again by Teflon Joe.

So exactly what would you do my Lord

SydneySkyBlue · Aug 17, 2011

It's the million dollar question. Seeing as he predicted all this before even SISU did i'm surprised he hasn't told us what will happen next!

SydneySkyBlue · Aug 17, 2011

lordsummerisle said:
Given the evidence that they Dann and Fox were sold the following summer and that he said that he couldn't stop them leaving, their "heads were turned", I'd say that his "hands off" warning meaning the opposite was true.

He wasn't actually very good at resigning either was he?

Hoffman appointing a Chairman means very little, if we don't know who the backers are or what their finances are like, and business practices.

After all, you seem to think that a Chairman is powerless, even if he brought in the backers, as was the case with Ranson and SISU.

Unless he's suggesting that Ranson controlled the purse strings I don't know what he's getting at.

SydneySkyBlue · Aug 17, 2011

Lloyd said:
My point is, it's almost as if all of you anti Hoff / Elliot supporters think that they had a say in what went on all the time in the boardroom. If they did they wouldn't have resigned / forcibly removed.

Now I know a lot of you guys like to just be naysayers and doombringers, but those gentlemen are actual supporters, you know, like you and me. All they have been doing is trying to do what is best for the club, they brought in SISU, who at the time promised us a strategy to take us back up to the Premier League, this is why they supported SISU, this is why a majority of us supported SISU.

However, after they started selling our young talent and restricted us from buying more young talent, we saw that they had actually switched strategy, as did Ranson, Hoffman, Elliott etc.

I'm afraid there's far too much logic here for our lordship to comprehend. Unless you hate and mistrust everything to do with the club then you've got your "head in the sand".

howzer · Aug 18, 2011

i cant stand sisu so dont get me wrong, but you cant blame them for messing Hoff around, it was his job to bring in investment to the club, all of a sudden with in a couple of weeks of leaving the club he has multi million pound investors???!! come on, in any business that is underhanded, its like us taking our employers clients and then setting up a rival company, Hoffmans trying one on, so no one can blame sisu for messing his around, and wanting to 'meet with his investors' ,,, of course they do, they want investment!!

this doesnt distract from the senceless way in which the company have treated the club and the fans which is currently disgraceful. i still think they will bring players in yet.

lordsummerisle · Aug 18, 2011

GinettasStickySofa said:
Unless he's suggesting that Ranson controlled the purse strings I don't know what he's getting at.

You wouldn't know what I'm getting at because you are pretty stupid.

Do you know who will be pulling the purse strings on any Hoffman backed take-over?

Hoffman himself it seems isn't the person, he's just bringing in "investors", rather like poor innocent Ranson did.

SkyBlueScottie · Aug 18, 2011

Lloyd said:
their strategy is to buy the half of the stadium and invest in getting a team again, easily done with 40 mil.

Quite possibly a flawed one since we are supposedly in debt by around 40 million, if you believe the press Sisu ultimately convinced the previous board to go off into the distance licking their wounds, I cant see them doing the same. They are somewhat in the position of power at the moment and are obviously not going to sell for £1 and then agree to deferred payments when or IF we achieve some sort of success which then eats into the supposed 30 or 40 million bought to the table by the "Hoffman group"

Ref the purchase of the Ricoh, would it be possible for us to buy back matchday rights first of all? as this would cost a lot less while increasing cashflow through the business?

SydneySkyBlue · Aug 18, 2011

howzer said:
i cant stand sisu so dont get me wrong, but you cant blame them for messing Hoff around, it was his job to bring in investment to the club, all of a sudden with in a couple of weeks of leaving the club he has multi million pound investors???!! come on, in any business that is underhanded, its like us taking our employers clients and then setting up a rival company, Hoffmans trying one on, so no one can blame sisu for messing his around, and wanting to 'meet with his investors' ,,, of course they do, they want investment!!

this doesnt distract from the senceless way in which the company have treated the club and the fans which is currently disgraceful. i still think they will bring players in yet.

If you, as a fan, were on the board at the club and could see its owners were no longer acting in its interests wouldn't you resign and try and bring in your own team, if you could?

Sure I can see why they wouldn't like it but from a business perspective but I think the circumstances are different here. SISU don't see us as anything but a business (their own investment). That's the problem really.

SydneySkyBlue · Aug 18, 2011

lordsummerisle said:
You wouldn't know what I'm getting at because you are pretty stupid.

Do you know who will be pulling the purse strings on any Hoffman backed take-over?

Hoffman himself it seems isn't the person, he's just bringing in "investors", rather like poor innocent Ranson did.

The difference is that Hoffman chooses the money-men individually himself. Yes, Ranson found out, to his and our club's detriment, that his investors no longer wanted to back the club in the way planned; but if it were all to go south with Hoffman's consortium I think you'd find Hoffman would be in a better position to find investors than SISU are now.

After all, did they find Hoffman's backers or did he?

SydneySkyBlue · Aug 18, 2011

It's unbelievable to think I find myself defending a fellow fan who's trying to inject cash into our club because he knows the owners won't!

lordsummerisle · Aug 18, 2011

GinettasStickySofa said:
The difference is that Hoffman chooses the money-men individually himself. Yes, Ranson found out, to his and our club's detriment, that his investors no longer wanted to back the club in the way planned; but if it were all to go south with Hoffman's consortium I think you'd find Hoffman would be in a better position to find investors than SISU are now.

After all, did they find Hoffman's backers or did he?

He took his time to find backers, after all that was what he was brought onto the board for wasn't it?

Again, do you know who the backers are? Are they individuals, or another hedge fund?

You have no idea, yet, again, you give unquestioning backing.

Quite possibly SISU, God knows i have no love for them, never have done(unlike yourself), didn't want to back Ranson, as his judgement, particularly on chooising managers was shown to be particularly flawed.

They did back him with the purchases of Dann,Fox, Westwood, Eastwood, Gunnarsson and others, however with Coleman in charge actually managed to finish in worse or the same position as before.

Appointing Aidy "No hoofball" Boothroyd hardly improved the position either, and as you and many others kept saying we "had the best squad since relegation", though never seemed able to explain how we didn't get any better.

The lack of progress on the pitch then led to decreasing match-day income, and associated income with that.

He was a failure as a Chairman, which is why he was remeoved, and he didn't exactly leave empty handed did he?

ashbyjan · Aug 18, 2011

There have been some pointless arguments on these pages but this one takes the biscuit - what exactly are you arguing for and about? Lets be clear SISU do not own this club - it is owned by several investment funds controlled by SISU but who the actual investors or owners into those individual funds are we have no idea and SISU are under no obligation to make such information public - so in fact we could be owned by Colonel Gadaffi or the Unite Union Pension Fund. We don't even know how many funds have the shares of SBS&L in them and whether these shares are part of a portfolio or are the only shares in the fund.
As for Hoffman - at this stage I would be amazed if he started publicly shouting who his investors were and alerting every other investment hungry football club about potential source of funding - just hope they aren't all far eastern investors who decide to hold onto their money until Man Utd are floated on the Singapore stock exchange.

So we don't know who owns us and we don't know who is trying to buy us - but on track record I would have a modicum more faith in Hoffman than in SISU simply because he is a City fan through and through, cares deeply for the club, resigned on a matter of principle and is offering an alternative to the current mess. In this case, for me, its definitely not a case of better the devil you know but a tempered maybe the grass is greener.

Otis · Aug 18, 2011

Thing is with all of this, most of it is guesswork from posters on here and other forums.

None of us really know what went on with Ranson and Sisu and who said what and to who and who was responsible for what decisions were made. None of us know what really went on with Hoffman either. Lots of conjecture on here that Hoffman backed Sisu wholeheartedly when he was onboard. None of us know this for sure. He may well have done, he well have have been at odds with them the entire time but towed the company line. We don't know. How many of us on here have been at odds with our own bosses but don't want to talk ourselves out of a job and have therefore carried out our duties, albeit through gritted teeth.

The fact is we simply don't know what went on and indeed what is going on now. I have no idea what Sisu's real intentions are for this season and why it seems they may be prepared for us to get relegated, nor do I know if Hoffman is credible or not.

Just find there is a lot of second guessing on here and elsewhere.

edgy · Oct 31, 2011

Paxman II said:
Please come back in May and repeat that.
What ever happens during the course of this season with a take over or a continuation of SISU at the helm this club will not get relegated.

Study the other clubs and you will see there will probably be 3 or 4 who will enter admin before season's end quite apart from whatever we do and a minimum 10 points reduction on all of them.

We will not be relegated. All this down beat rhetoric at such an early stage is so over the top.
Any number of things could happen yet.

Just can't help thinking had we held on to the 1 nil win at Palace would it be a change of tone to lots of maybe's?
Like maybe we are not so bad?
Give it a rest till we get a dozen games under our belt. If we are still in the same predicament then, I'll take your side Edgy.

Ok Paxman, I gave you an extra 2 games for the hell of it. We are in the bottom three, having just scrapped a draw from a poor Doncaster outfit.

Now, can you confirm you have seen sense or are you still as deluded as ever? :facepalm:

cloughie · Oct 31, 2011

CCFC said:
Deluded much? Did you see our team last night? We have 10 senior players available at the moment in

Murphy............LOWER LEAGUE
Keogh..............lOWER LEAGUE
Cranie
Hussey.............LOWER LEAGUE
Clingan.............RELEGATED WITH NORWICH
ROD.................NEVER PLAYED THE LEVEL
Juke
Baker................LOWER LEAGUE
Dunn................LOWER LEAGUE
McPake.............SCOTTISH LEAGUE( LOWER THAN OUR LEAGUE)

Sorry to point out but if you buy a lower league team eventually you become one!

Sterling Archer · Oct 31, 2011

Otis said:
Thing is with all of this, most of it is guesswork from posters on here and other forums.

Absolutely spot on and it would be worth reminding this to all the Anti SISU and Pro SISU posters.

It alarms me how much some posters take hearsay as gospel on this forum.

skybluesam66 · Oct 31, 2011

I could counter that with

oggy lower league
borrows lower league
downes relegated
peake lower league
killer lower league
gynn lower league
mcgrath no experience
bennett lower league
houchen lower league
regis
pickering

subs
sedgley - no experience
rodger no experience

cloughie · Oct 31, 2011

On reading through this thread it appears to me that Lord Summerilse thinks he is superior to all other posters especially those who disagree with him.

Your replies to others have included the following name calling ' Arsehole, know knothing idiot, stupid, moron, and pretty stupid.......Hardly the work of a superior intelligence.

You imply your slant on other peoples statements has Fact when you do not know the truth either way on what they may or may not have meant.

An open intelligent mind sifts the facts from fiction to find the truth. It would appear you use either to always be right.

Now I don't beleive I am any better than the next man, unlike yourself.

cloughie · Oct 31, 2011

skybluesam66 said:
I could counter that with

oggy lower league
borrows lower league
downes relegated
peake lower league
killer lower league
gynn lower league
mcgrath no experience
bennett lower league
houchen lower league
regis
pickering

subs
sedgley - no experience
rodger no experience

Got me on this one , have to agree, they are a different class to our current lot.

CUS Wyken · Oct 31, 2011

cloughie said:
CCFC said:

Deluded much? Did you see our team last night? We have 10 senior players available at the moment in

Murphy............LOWER LEAGUE
Keogh..............lOWER LEAGUE
Cranie
Hussey.............LOWER LEAGUE
Clingan.............RELEGATED WITH NORWICH
ROD.................NEVER PLAYED THE LEVEL
Juke
Baker................LOWER LEAGUE
Dunn................LOWER LEAGUE
McPake.............SCOTTISH LEAGUE( LOWER THAN OUR LEAGUE)

Sorry to point out but if you buy a lower league team eventually you become one!

Click to expand...

Ok to point outsomething to you.

Swansea and Norwich are currently holding there own with players who on the whole with no Premership expereince. The reason there doing well is 1) spent wisely and 2) have decent managers.

It can be done

Otis · Oct 31, 2011

Aren't Brighton, Peterborough and Southampton playing with a load of League One players too?

CUS Wyken · Oct 31, 2011

Otis said:
Aren't Brighton, Peterborough and Southampton playing with a load of League One players too?

and Derby really. Mixture of youth and Lower League. Look how there coping.

The Reverend Skyblue · Oct 31, 2011

Edgy what a great memory you've got. To remember something from 5/6 weeks ago is very impressive, i'm certainly not going to upset you as you will hold the grudge for ages.
Just to confirm i agree with you on this as i also feel we're in a spot of bother., but i do feel we will get better.

The Rev

edgy · Oct 31, 2011

It's not a grudge, Rev. It's just hard to forget how deluded Paxman is at times.

cloughie · Oct 31, 2011

as stated got me on this one ,but its not black and white here, peterbough loans vis fergersons connections, Brighton spent money ,yes on lower league players but i think they will fade. southampton don't know enough about them to comment. Derby had a sticky patch last season but have stuck with the manager.

I may have been hasty with the 'buy lower league players' etc comment but The teams above have all done things that we have failed to do ie spend money use loan players and stick with the manger, something that some are calling for Thorn to go

Nonleagueherewecome · Oct 31, 2011

CUS Wyken said:
and Derby really. Mixture of youth and Lower League. Look how there coping.

Fielding cost a fair whack from Blackburn and is an England U-21, as did Cywka from Wigan. They even have a few of their ex-Prem players like Pearson, doubtless on miles more than we can afford to pay. They may have bought 2 players from Crewe last season-but for 750k! Way beyond our reach. It's like the people on the post-match show on Saturday banging on about Palace doing OK when they haven't signed anyone...until Clive pointed out that they brought in 6 players in the summer, one for 650k, and that they have 2 loan players. There really is no team in our division who is so pathetically under-funded!

CUS Wyken · Oct 31, 2011

Nonleagueherewecome said:
Fielding cost a fair whack from Blackburn and is an England U-21, as did Cywka from Wigan. They even have a few of their ex-Prem players like Pearson, doubtless on miles more than we can afford to pay. They may have bought 2 players from Crewe last season-but for 750k! Way beyond our reach. It's like the people on the post-match show on Saturday banging on about Palace doing OK when they haven't signed anyone...until Clive pointed out that they brought in 6 players in the summer, one for 650k, and that they have 2 loan players. There really is no team in our division who is so pathetically under-funded!

I didnt mention money did I? I mentioned lower league players. Which they have. Yes theyve spent money and so have everyone else including us but the fella above mentioned lower league players. Thats all.

CUS Wyken · Oct 31, 2011

cloughie said:
as stated got me on this one ,but its not black and white here, peterbough loans vis fergersons connections, Brighton spent money ,yes on lower league players but i think they will fade. southampton don't know enough about them to comment. Derby had a sticky patch last season but have stuck with the manager.

I may have been hasty with the 'buy lower league players' etc comment but The teams above have all done things that we have failed to do ie spend money use loan players and stick with the manger, something that some are calling for Thorn to go

The reason the following haven't lost there jobs because theyve done well.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Oct 31, 2011

Otis said:
Aren't Brighton, Peterborough and Southampton playing with a load of League One players too?

Not quite the full picture though - how much did Brighton spend on Craig Mackail Smith (please pardon spelling), Southampton have bought players like a certain Danny Fox etc etc

CUS Wyken · Oct 31, 2011

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
Not quite the full picture though - how much did Brighton spend on Craig Mackail Smith (please pardon spelling), Southampton have bought players like a certain Danny Fox etc etc

The argument isnt about money. Its about Lower League players.

lordsummerisle · Oct 31, 2011

cloughie said:
On reading through this thread it appears to me that Lord Summerilse thinks he is superior to all other posters especially those who disagree with him.

Your replies to others have included the following name calling ' Arsehole, know knothing idiot, stupid, moron, and pretty stupid.......Hardly the work of a superior intelligence.

You imply your slant on other peoples statements has Fact when you do not know the truth either way on what they may or may not have meant.

An open intelligent mind sifts the facts from fiction to find the truth. It would appear you use either to always be right.

Now I don't beleive I am any better than the next man, unlike yourself.

If the cap fits...

cloughie · Oct 31, 2011

lordsummerisle said:
If the cap fits...

As previously stated, hardly the work of a superior intelligence

Unless you mean your wearing a cap with your prolific vocabulary printed on it. I'm sure they could fit all your intelligent words on it as it would have to be big enough to fit on that head of yours

cloughie · Oct 31, 2011

Sorry guy's I seem to be getting off the thread a bit here, just got a little distracted

Grendel · Oct 31, 2011

lordsummerisle said:
If the cap fits...

Isn't it time for your appointment with the Whicker Man?

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