Joy Seppala: “We will not interfere with any deal between Wasps and ACL re: Ricoh" (2 Viewers)

Rob S · Oct 3, 2014

chiefdave said:
This is all very odd. I was hoping Rob was going to come back from his meeting with SISU and say they would be putting a bid in but this reads more like a SISU press release than one for a fans protest group.

So basically SISU are going to stick to the line that they are building there own stadium until well past the point of no return leaving the club deep in the shit if they never actually get round to building it.

Now that there can be no objections from CCC did she let you know where this new stadium will be?

TBF it's a press release aimed at getting press. I'm happy to go into more detail here.

Joy's basic argument against the Ricoh was that she thinks it's too much of a business risk at the price ACL want. "The revenue potential is too unclear." Key points were:

IEC/Compass contract(s): She freely admitted that after multiple meetings and attempted explanations, she was still in the dark as to how it worked. The length of the contract was also a big worry.

Dealing with CCC: She pointed to the Weber Shandwick campaign – and has lots of evidence of how deep it went in the form of Subject Access Requests (SARs) – and how she just didn't think the council would ever want to sell to / work with the club / her

ACL: Would really need to be broken up and a NewCo formed with new contracts

(BTW, despite the fact that she doesn't see any possibility of buying in to the Ricoh, I think that it would be a possible deal but the conditions & price would have to be right. And there's the crux of the problem. )

Sky Blue Dal · Oct 3, 2014

So ACL/Higgs have not made contact with them?? Why should they it is up to SISU to do that and from her response she is not interested for NOW!! :thinking about:

I have my theory what she is doing... the cunning cow!!

Wasp buy the 90% share in the Ricoh, They move in and then after two years Wasp realise they cannot sustain running the Ricoh due to loss of there fans and possible boycotts from both the Wasps fans and the people of City of Coventry. Then out of the blue.. SISU announce they have just bought the land to buy build a new stadium in or around Coventry and moving out in 2 years.

This panics Wasp and they are distressed to point of bankruptcy .. then BANG!!!!! SISU pick up the Ricoh on the cheap.

Brilliant plan hey

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 3, 2014

Rob S said:
Dealing with CCC: She pointed to the Weber Shandwick campaign – and has lots of evidence of how deep it went in the form of Subject Access Requests (SARs) – and how she just didn't think the council would ever want to sell to / work with the club / her

Whilst I can see the rest, and whilst I appreciate it's not you saying that, it doesn't exactly suggest the moving on we all need to get a secure future, does it?

Don't we have to leave the past in the past?

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 3, 2014

sky blue john said:
Protest off then ?

Why because Joy mentioned Legoland?

chiefdave · Oct 3, 2014

Rob S said:
Joy's basic argument against the Ricoh was that she thinks it's too much of a business risk at the price ACL want. "The revenue potential is too unclear."

It doesn't really matter what her argument is through does it? The very key point is SISU have no interest in purchasing the Ricoh yet have given no evidence to support the fact that they are building a new group so there's a very real prospect as a result of her actions we will end up not having a stake in any ground but potentially not even having anywhere to play, essentially killing the club. And she's thinks that is a sound business strategy!

Her comments make it very difficult to campaign against CCC & ACL selling the stadium to any other interested buyer. They have a stadium where the only major team using the stadium are insisting they are going to move out and are not interested in tabling an offer to purchase. What are there options, do they just hang on and hope SISU decide to walk away before killing the club, can they risk SISU taking the club away and the stadium being left empty?

It seems the only avenue for protest left open to us is the franchise argument against Wasps moving so far from their traditional home location. Hopefully we can get a decent number of Wasps fans along to protest on Tuesday to drive that point home, Cov RFC fans as well.

Rob S · Oct 3, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Whilst I can see the rest, and whilst I appreciate it's not you saying that, it doesn't exactly suggest the moving on we all need to get a secure future, does it?

Don't we have to leave the past in the past?

Good point but I think this was in the light of the latest news re: Wasps as we haven't had a chance for the peace & reconciliation period that was supposed to happen. I did get a look at some of the SARs stuff and it is NOT pretty.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 3, 2014

sky blue john said:
How many wasps are coming for the protest ?
Shouldn't this be a wasps fans driven protest now ?

Why its our stadium our home I'd rather blow it up than anybody else have it!

Sky Blue Dal · Oct 3, 2014

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Why its our stadium our home I'd rather blow it up than anybody else have it!

Whoa!!!!! be carful what you saying... Hope you posted that from a TOR browser.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 3, 2014

Rob S said:
Good point but I think this was in the light of the latest news re: Wasps as we haven't had a chance for the peace & reconciliation period that was supposed to happen. I did get a look at some of the SARs stuff and it is NOT pretty.

Even if worst comes to the worst and we have to build a new ground:facepalm: even if it was on the edge of the city (Warwick Uni) we'd need to consult the city council as they'd weant a say on access and the like.

So in some sense they have to move on, anyway. If they're doing that, they might as well move on re: at least discussing the Ricoh.

Rob S · Oct 3, 2014

Nick has just had a heart attack ;-)

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 3, 2014

Sky Blue Dal said:
Whoa!!!!! be carful what you saying... Hope you posted that from a TOR browser.

I said rather,than I would do it,wouldn't know how to,should have said demolish it. I am now expecting a visit :facepalm:

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 3, 2014

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
I said rather,than I would do it,wouldn't know how to,should have said demolish it. I am now expecting a visit :facepalm:

tbf, if they just wait till tuesday they can just stroll down the road

italiahorse · Oct 3, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
You seem determined to be pro-franchising now.

Why are you concerned about franchising for a Rugby team?

I'm concerned how this effects CCFC.
CCFC/SISU are not interested in the Ricoh so what do you expect to get from protesting this deal.

I feel powerless but I will not stand around outside the council office protesting for a Rugby team.

What will be protest against other than the above ?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 3, 2014

italiahorse said:
Why are you concerned about franchising for a Rugby team?

I wonder:facepalm:

covmark · Oct 3, 2014

italiahorse said:
Why are you concerned about franchising for a Rugby team?

I'm concerned how this effects CCFC.
CCFC/SISU are not interested in the Ricoh so what do you expect to get from protesting this deal.

I feel powerless but I will not stand around outside the council office protesting for a Rugby team.

What will be protest against other than the above ?

Hypocrite

Moff · Oct 3, 2014

italiahorse said:
Why are you concerned about franchising for a Rugby team?

I feel powerless but I will not stand around outside the council office protesting for a Rugby team.

What will be protest against other than the above ?

Are you and John in a tag team today on totally missing the point?

I seem to remember you actually saying you were never coming back, had given up on the club, would never go again etc about the disgrace of moving a club from its home, when we were at Sixfields.

Seems now its just a rugby team its ok with you, and that actually you support franchising, or are you just being a hypocrite?

Sky Blue Dal · Oct 3, 2014

italiahorse said:
What will be protest against other than the above ?

I am beginning to wonder that myself.

If it were Wasp or Cov RFC fans arranging it we could say that there cause is worth it and we should rightly show solidarity for there plight.

These fans who are affected really need to come and organise a protest themselves. If our owners have made it plain and clear that they have no intension of putting a counter bid forward who are are we to start a protest behalf of the Wasps and Cov RFC. That is for them to do.

All we can do is show them support by joining them and not interfering by running there protest for them.

We really need to spend our energy on now demanding that SISU/Otium build the new Stadium in Coventry.

wingy · Oct 3, 2014

Rob S said:
TBF it's a press release aimed at getting press. I'm happy to go into more detail here.

Joy's basic argument against the Ricoh was that she thinks it's too much of a business risk at the price ACL want. "The revenue potential is too unclear." Key points were:

IEC/Compass contract(s): She freely admitted that after multiple meetings and attempted explanations, she was still in the dark as to how it worked. The length of the contract was also a big worry.

Dealing with CCC: She pointed to the Weber Shandwick campaign – and has lots of evidence of how deep it went in the form of Subject Access Requests (SARs) – and how she just didn't think the council would ever want to sell to / work with the club / her

ACL: Would really need to be broken up and a NewCo formed with new contracts

(BTW, despite the fact that she doesn't see any possibility of buying in to the Ricoh, I think that it would be a possible deal but the conditions & price would have to be right. And there's the crux of the problem. )

so ~~in reality as i said elsewhere in the thread ,the article Is nothing like the reality.

limoncello · Oct 3, 2014

@Rob, are the SARs and Nick having a heart attack connected?

duffer · Oct 3, 2014

I'm still trying to get my head around this.

I think it works a bit like this.

Joy is saying that she doesn't want to buy into ACL. One of the concerns appears to be that the catering and functions deal with IEC has been front loaded, meaning that ACL have received the cash, but presumably IEC now get all the ongoing benefit. In other words, buying into ACL doesn't give you access to F&B and the other revenue streams from the Ricoh, which the club needs.

What I don't understand here is that over 70% of IEC is held by ACL - so ACL clearly do still have access to those streams, don't they? Therefore whoever buys them gets access too, presumably.

Moving on from that, when I read through the press release what I'm really pulling out of this is that SISU don't want to pay what Wasps seem to be willing to pay for the Ricoh.

Rob, I think, is suggesting not only should we push the Council to block the Wasps deal, but also that we lobby the council to sell it to the club for less.

With regard to the the first part, I'd agree. The Wasps deal is an abomination. As to whether we should try to persuade the Council to sell to the club for less than Wasps are paying, I'm really not convinced.

I liked where we were a few weeks ago. The club had got back to the Ricoh, and both sides needed to negotiate for what they wanted. I'd like the council to abandon the Wasps deal, and the club to accept that building a smaller, crappier, worse located stadium is an absolute nonsense.

Only utter pig-headed obstinancy on all sides has led to this, is it too much to hope that someone sees sense now?

skyblueinBaku · Oct 3, 2014

duffer said:
Only utter pig-headed obstinancy on all sides has lead to this, is it too much hope that someone sees sense now?

Yes, duffer, I think that is too much to hope for. :facepalm:

limoncello · Oct 3, 2014

My blame-allocation-ratio calculator's just had a meltdown.

Nick · Oct 3, 2014

limoncello said:
@Rob, are the SARs and Nick having a heart attack connected?

Ay? News to me?

italiahorse · Oct 3, 2014

Moff said:
Are you and John in a tag team today on totally missing the point?

I seem to remember you actually saying you were never coming back, had given up on the club, would never go again etc about the disgrace of moving a club from its home, when we were at Sixfields.

Seems now its just a rugby team its ok with you, and that actually you support franchising, or are you just being a hypocrite?

They never fought my battle so why should I fight their's?

If they remained at Sixfields I was withdrawing my attendances home and away.
It is the only way I could put it over to SISU that I was not happy.
I feel it worked.

So if we protest for the Rugby how does that help CCFC ?
I feel that we are aimlessly challenging this in the off chance that SISU might still be interested in the Ricoh.

I need some more facts before I bare my chest.

Woz01 · Oct 3, 2014

Are we sure it's even being sold to Wasps or is it a consortium including the Wasps owner and Ranson as Les Reid suggests. He seems to think they will bid for the club or at least want it. If that is the case the club would come out well from that scenario wouldn't it?

Rob S · Oct 3, 2014

Nick said:
Ay? News to me?

I was thinking more the terrorist threats

stupot07 · Oct 3, 2014

Joy Seppala: “We will not interfere with any deal between Wasps and ACL re: R...

duffer said:
I'm still trying to get my head around this.

I think it works a bit like this.

Joy is saying that she doesn't want to buy into ACL. One of the concerns appears to be that the catering and functions deal with IEC has been front loaded, meaning that ACL have received the cash, but presumably IEC now get all the ongoing benefit. In other words, buying into ACL doesn't give you access to F&B and the other revenue streams from the Ricoh, which the club needs.

What I don't understand here is that over 70% of IEC is held by ACL - so ACL clearly do still have access to those streams, don't they? Therefore whoever buys them gets access too, presumably.

Moving on from that, when I read through the press release what I'm really pulling out of this is that SISU don't want to pay what Wasps seem to be willing to pay for the Ricoh.

Rob, I think, is suggesting not only should we push the Council to block the Wasps deal, but also that we lobby the council to sell it to the club for less.

With regard to the the first part, I'd agree. The Wasps deal is an abomination. As to whether we should try to persuade the Council to sell to the club for less than Wasps are paying, I'm really not convinced.

I liked where we were a few weeks ago. The club had got back to the Ricoh, and both sides needed to negotiate for what they wanted. I'd like the council to abandon the Wasps deal, and the club to accept that building a smaller, crappier, worse located stadium is an absolute nonsense.

Only utter pig-headed obstinancy on all sides has led to this, is it too much to hope that someone sees sense now?

I read it more that Compass paid a lot up front, so rather than IEC getting the money, Compass get the profit.

Pretty sure someone mentioned this when we returned.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Monners · Oct 3, 2014

I made the mistake of doing some paid work for a few hours so have only just picked this up again, also excuse any misinterpretation: I pretty much agree with Duffer on this - why would anyone search out a buyer (Sisu) that has never shown any interest in making a serious offer and ask them to pay less than the apparent serious offer that is on the table from elsewhere? I also agree that it is abhorent that CCC should prostitute themselves in this way re the franchise with Wasps. The buck stops with Sisu as owners - their strategy has led to this nonsense i.e. litigation, litigation. litigation; although I suspect they didn't foresee that CCC would behave in such a shark like Gordon Ghecko manner (Sisu being out sisued - who would have thought).

It is a desperate state of affairs. If only someone had put the Club and fans first eh! Life isn't always about money. and I am comfortable with that personal viewpoint

Almost forget - there is a game tomorrow isn't there!

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 3, 2014

italiahorse said:
They never fought my battle so why should I fight their's?

We never fought Wimbledon's, but they fought ours.

It is our battle anyway. Surely, *surely* after everything that's happened, you realise the danger of welcoming teams from places other than where they were 'born'?!?

torchomatic · Oct 3, 2014

As Moff said you're missing the point. We asked other clubs to fight on our behalf, didn't we? And this isn't just a "one club" thing. It's not just all about us, or Wasps. It's the slippery slope, the thin end of the wedge, etc etc.

italiahorse said:
They never fought my battle so why should I fight their's?

italiahorse · Oct 3, 2014

torchomatic said:
As Moff said you're missing the point. We asked other clubs to fight on our behalf, didn't we? And this isn't just a "one club" thing. It's not just all about us, or Wasps. It's the slippery slope, the thin end of the wedge, etc etc.

I'll join their protest. Where is it ?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 3, 2014

italiahorse said:
I'll join their protest. Where is it ?

Good man, letsallingtogether will be pleased of the company.

stupot07 · Oct 3, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Good man, letsallingtogether will be pleased of the company.

I think he meant London Wasps not ours....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

duffer · Oct 3, 2014

stupot07 said:
I read it more that Compass paid a lot up front, so rather than IEC getting the money, Compass get the profit.

Pretty sure someone mentioned this when we returned.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Stu, I'm not pretending for a moment to understand it, but how could that work? If IEC is 70% owned by ACL, and in turn owns the right to all of the F&B etc., then surely ACL gets access to a large proportion of what IEC makes?

If I've read this right, Compass did indeed pay £125m for a ten year deal, but now it all sits in IEC.

http://www.xperiology.com/speaker-preview-striking-the-deal-in-house-or-outsource/

I am genuinely confused. Generally though, if ACL are such a poor investment, why are Wasps looking to buy in?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 3, 2014

duffer said:
I am genuinely confused. Generally though, if ACL are such a poor investment, why are Wasps looking to buy in?

Hindsight often gives the answer mind you.

Just because a sporting owner has a grand idea doesn't automatically make it a good one... you must have learned that much by now

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