JR2 (4 Viewers)

[Nick]

You are missing the point. I can decide if it's stupidity, arrogance or the need to keep the hits on this web site.

I am a director of 2 companies, if I fall out with customers trading as co 1 and then try and sell them services under the other company saying that co 1 and co2 are not linked it would not swallow as I control both companies.
SISU control all the companies listed by OSB, fan's are aware who controls the club.

What is stupid or arrogant? What's with the "need to keep the hits on the website" shit also because people disagree with you.

My point about them being different is about when people say starve CCFC isn't it and action like that?

 

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[Nick]

I see so its part of CCFC when its doing well? but not when not?

What is part of CCFC?

 

[shmmeee]

If CCFC did a Leicester and in 5-6 years time under the same ownership, won the Premiership, would SISU benefit from it?

If so surly when being hit by lack of attendance they must also take the hit?? Stand corrected if I'm wrong

Depends.

CCFC owe Sisu a metric butt load of cash (it's a high finance term). Sisu basically can take any profit we ever make until they are paid back.

The question is: what would CCFC do if their income doesn't meet their outgoings and Sisu have shut the purse strings to more borrowing (as seems to be the case).

Either: A) The club has to sell players at first, cut costs on wages and the like, then eventually go bust. Probably leading to Sisu taking Ryton and fucking off leaving us God knows where in the league structure with no players of worth, no ground and no training or academy facilities. It would also mean any debts run up in that period to suppliers or players or the like would probably be left unpaid as Sisu have dibs on any cash or assets.

or B) Sisu suddenly have a change of heart and start pumping cash in to keep the club afloat (seriously unlikely)

So the question becomes: are you willing to accelerate the demise of the club to get Sisu out? Considering that they can probably keep us going with 0 fans for another season or two on player sales and TV money alone (apparently we turned down £2m worth of bids last week, that should cover at least a season's worth of losses). Neither route (supporting the club or not) will "cost Sisu money".

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

CCFC is listed in the JR interested parties with SISU controlled companies trading as CCFC v CCC/Wasps/Higgs etc.
But that makes them a complainant ( or whatever the word is ) not just an "interested party" ?

Everybody loves OSB58 and believes what he says.... Start believing............................ Quoting OSB58............... "What is also unarguable is that Fisher can no longer say that the club is not involved in the legal actions because Otium which trades as the club CCFC is named as a plaintiff and is very much involved."......
PS. Note!

 

[Nick]

Depends.

CCFC owe Sisu a metric butt load of cash (it's a high finance term). Sisu basically can take any profit we ever make until they are paid back.

The question is: what would CCFC do if their income doesn't meet their outgoings and Sisu have shut the purse strings to more borrowing (as seems to be the case).

Either: A) The club has to sell players at first, cut costs on wages and the like, then eventually go bust. Probably leading to Sisu taking Ryton and fucking off leaving us God knows where in the league structure with no players of worth, no ground and no training or academy facilities. It would also mean any debts run up in that period to suppliers or players or the like would probably be left unpaid as Sisu have dibs on any cash or assets.

or B) Sisu suddenly have a change of heart and start pumping cash in to keep the club afloat (seriously unlikely)

So the question becomes: are you willing to accelerate the demise of the club to get Sisu out? Considering that they can probably keep us going with 0 fans for another season or two on player sales and TV money alone (apparently we turned down £2m worth of bids last week, that should cover at least a season's worth of losses). Neither route (supporting the club or not) will "cost Sisu money".

And that's the whole idea, why would they want it to cost them money if it isn't doing well?

It's ruthless, it's absolute shite but it's how it is!

 

[Nick]

Everybody loves OSB58 and believes what he says.... Start believing............................ Quoting OSB58............... "What is also unarguable is that Fisher can no longer say that the club is not involved in the legal actions because Otium which trades as the club CCFC is named as a plaintiff and is very much involved."......
PS. Note!

Who has said CCFC / Otium aren't involved in this one? It's in black and white.

It's correct, he can't say it about this one. He can about the others where they aren't named as they weren't named then.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Who has said CCFC / Otium aren't involved in this one? It's in black and white.

It's correct, he can't say it about this one. He can about the others where they aren't named as they weren't named then.

Why you asking me?.... Ask Oldfiver that question. I'll wait for your apology Nick.

 

[shmmeee]

And that's the whole idea, why would they want it to cost them money if it isn't doing well?

It's ruthless, it's absolute shite but it's how it is!

Yeah, I mean I'm not going to slag off those who think speeding up what seems like an inevitable process is the way to go. I totally understand that viewpoint. But they should be clear that's what they are doing, not hurting Sisu but causing CCFC a lot of short term pain for potential long term gain.

I also don't buy the opposing argument of "if we just fill the ground someone will buy us", mostly because Sisu have shown that they have no intention of selling. I'm convinced that their two options are: turn us around by some miracle, or let us rot on the vine until we have to go bust.

It's a proper shit sandwich. The question is do we wolf it down quick, or take little nibbles each day for years?

 

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean I'm not going to slag off those who think speeding up what seems like an inevitable process is the way to go. I totally understand that viewpoint. But they should be clear that's what they are doing, not hurting Sisu but causing CCFC a lot of short term pain for potential long term gain.

I also don't buy the opposing argument of "if we just fill the ground someone will buy us", mostly because Sisu have shown that they have no intention of selling. I'm convinced that their two options are: turn us around by some miracle, or let us rot on the vine until we have to go bust.

It's a proper shit sandwich. The question is do we wolf it down quick, or take little nibbles each day for years?

I agree, it's just to point out that it isn't going to damage SISU. They will have structured it so that it won't damage them which is why I say that it is targetting CCFC rather than SISU and in that aspect it is different.

They would quite happily just sit and let us tick over at arms length not costing them a bean.

If people realise and are doing it to harm CCFC to speed it up then it's different to doing it thinking they will make SISU go bust.

 

[oldfiver]

Why you asking me?.... Ask Oldfiver that question. I'll wait for your apology Nick.

I simply pointed out the statements above do not seem to be right

Is CCFC ( or SBBL properly ) a complainant or joined in as an interested party?
There is a difference
It will be listed in the Court documents somewhere I assume

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Everybody loves OSB58 and believes what he says.... Start believing............................ Quoting OSB58............... "What is also unarguable is that Fisher can no longer say that the club is not involved in the legal actions because Otium which trades as the club CCFC is named as a plaintiff and is very much involved."......
PS. Note!

I simply pointed out the statements above do not seem to be right

Is CCFC ( or SBBL properly ) a complainant or joined in as an interested party?
There is a difference

Please read again the Quote from OSB58...

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

But we know that Joy refused to negotiate. It was on her terms or not at all.

This is the bottom line, really. It's hard to imagine how it won't get laughed out of court (again!) given how adamant they were that they weren't interested, were building their own stadium, etc.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

This is the bottom line, really. It's hard to imagine how it won't get laughed out of court (again!) given how adamant they were that they weren't interested, were building their own stadium, etc.

Yo Man! How's it going mate. Only talking about you day before yesterday, hope you're keeping well.

 

[Sub]

Has anybody looked in to AVRO/otiums accounts to see if there are payments going in or out or to and from SISU? (i know OSB might of done but i cant remember if he has)

 

[Otis]

This is the bottom line, really. It's hard to imagine how it won't get laughed out of court (again!) given how adamant they were that they weren't interested, were building their own stadium, etc.

Where the hell have you been? You been held in a darkened cellar somewhere by the secret twin brother of Joseph Fritzl?

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Yo Man! How's it going mate. Only talking about you day before yesterday, hope you're keeping well.

I'm not bad cheers mate, hope you are well!

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Where the hell have you been? You been held in a darkened cellar somewhere by the secret twin brother of Joseph Fritzl?

I can't think of a better metaphor for the mental anguish of having your football club owned by SISU, so yes, metaphorically I have! I still have the odd read on matchday's, just to check up on your puns and SW's typo's, hee hee!

 

[Nick]

Has anybody looked in to AVRO/otiums accounts to see if there are payments going in or out or to and from SISU? (i know OSB might of done but i cant remember if he has)

Yes, OSB goes through them all with a fine toothcomb and I'd guess other people do too!

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Hey all my old likes look like they got deleted whilst I was away, I look even more unpopular than I actually was now! Ah well, 4 today, Like Rate is a mighty 1 per 2,528.5 posts, so at this rate I have a better chance of being out of the bottom 4 by April than City do.

 

[Nick]

Hey all my old likes look like they got deleted whilst I was away, I look even more unpopular than I actually was now! Ah well, 4 today, Like Rate is a mighty 1 per 2,528.5 posts, so at this rate I have a better chance of being out of the bottom 4 by April than City do.

There weren't any, ever!

 

[Sub]

Yes, OSB goes through them all with a fine toothcomb and I'd guess other people do too!

Thanks Nick so as you say damaging CCFC does not damage SISU as they are seperate companies.
But does it damage OTIUM/ARVO ?

 

[shmmeee]

Hey all my old likes look like they got deleted whilst I was away, I look even more unpopular than I actually was now! Ah well, 4 today, Like Rate is a mighty 1 per 2,528.5 posts, so at this rate I have a better chance of being out of the bottom 4 by April than City do.

There you go mate, up to 1 per 1685 now

 

[Nick]

Thanks Nick so as you say damaging CCFC does not damage SISU as they are seperate companies.
But does it damage OTIUM/ARVO ?

Otium is CCFC so will be damaged.

My point is just that people can make CCFC go bust tomorrow and Joy isn't going to be homeless or damaged from it.

 

[oldfiver]

Please read again the Quote from OSB58...

That is not answering my question is it

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

There weren't any, ever!

Yeah I know, I'm just trying to compensate for my other issues probably! :shamefullyembarrased:

Maaaan there are so many emoticons now, spoilt for choice.

 

[Sub]

Otium is CCFC so will be damaged.

My point is just that people can make CCFC go bust tomorrow and Joy isn't going to be homeless or damaged from it.

She never will they always protect the basics !!

So CCFC is otium they are linked so they can be damaged as one.

And Sisu are using OTIUM as one of therre investment companies (which they will have many) to invest their clients money to get a return on? is that right?

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah I know, I'm just trying to compensate for my other issues probably! :shamefullyembarrased:

Maaaan there are so many emoticons now, spoilt for choice.

Have another one for calling them emoticons and not emojis

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

There you go mate, up to 1 per 1685 now

Cheers shmeee!

I should probably get off this fine thread or it will get moved to Off Topic. On the other hand, I suppose the distraction might be welcome, it doesn't feel like good news.

 

[shmmeee]

She never will they always protect the basics !!

So CCFC is otium they are linked so they can be damaged as one.

And Sisu are using OTIUM as one of therre investment companies (which they will have many) to invest their clients money to get a return on? is that right?

No. Otium is CCFC. Otium trades as CCFC. They aren't an investment company. I'm a little sketchy on the details, think it's Arvo that are the investment company and then other ones under Sisu. Poke around OSBs post history for details.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Have another one for calling them emoticons and not emojis

Now there is a term that:



What's wrong with the old jargon, eh? I was in a meeting last week with someone who didn't even know what pwn was. Pfft. Kids today...

 

[Otis]

No. Otium is CCFC. Otium trades as CCFC. They aren't an investment company. I'm a little sketchy on the details, think it's Arvo that are the investment company and then other ones under Sisu. Poke around OSBs post history for details.

Whatever it is, it is hardly crystal clear is it!

 

[shmmeee]

Now there is a term that:



What's wrong with the old jargon, eh? I was in a meeting last week with someone who didn't even know what pwn was. Pfft. Kids today...

In my day we made our smiley faces in ASCII and we were glad for it!

;-)

 

[chiefdave]

What would happen if AVRo or Sisu went bust ? what would happen to CCFC ?

If the owners of Otium (CCFC) went bust then Otium would potentially be sold either as part of administration or liquidation of the parent company.

Then its up in the air if there's a points deduction. Southampton did but the argument there was the holding company only owned the football club and nothing else and therefore were essentially the same thing.

 

[Nick]

She never will they always protect the basics !!

So CCFC is otium they are linked so they can be damaged as one.

And Sisu are using OTIUM as one of therre investment companies (which they will have many) to invest their clients money to get a return on? is that right?

What can be damaged as one? Yes Otium can be damaged as that is the limited company behind CCFC.

As Shmmeee says though, another one for OSB to get into detail about!

 

[Sub]

Thanks for all the replys just trying to get my head round the Chain of command in basic terms So it looks like this below i guess?

SISU
I
OTIUM/CCFC
I
Fans/supporters