Judicial review day 3 - judgement day (2 Viewers)

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Hobo

Hobo

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
So is that him saying the state aid law was breached but because they were misled or am I reading it wrong?
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Don't know as it is not worded very well. Even if procedure wasn't followed doesn't make end result necessarily illegal?

There are two strands to the case. Let's wait and see what the Judge makes of it.
 
Sub

Sub

Well-Known Member
Simon Gilbert@TheSimonGilbert · 2m Council says ACL statement a private investor wouldn't go above 12m was not a council statement and was made during negotiations with bank.
 
Sub

Sub

Well-Known Member
Simon Gilbert@TheSimonGilbert · 1m Council QC has also been saying Sisu has sought to introduce new arguments that are not admissible.
 
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dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Rob S said:
In rebutting Sisu's claim, the CCC QC misquoted the Sisu QC (from yesterday) which is where the argument came from.

There's been a lot of discussion about the rent and if there was an agreement to reduce it, run down the escrow etc. The legal decision here (which is what counts) will be that whatever was discussed in 2012 wasn't legally binding so the club going ahead with the discussed terms is non-payment, even if reduced rather than complete non-payment.

Bear in mind that the appeal judge that got us to this point accepted that some rent was paid so the judgment today should include an actual legal decision on that if I understand correctly. We'll see what the judge says in his summing up.
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Thanks Rob

Also do you how SISU have now moved the goalposts for their case?
Is it that they are now saying that councillors were not given enough info?
 
Sub

Sub

Well-Known Member
Simon Gilbert@TheSimonGilbert · 8s Council QC says £590k escrow account used to pay ACL rent during strike was funded by the FA.
 
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Sub

Well-Known Member
Simon Gilbert@TheSimonGilbert · 44s Council QC says rent strike was crucial to all of this and not immaterial as Sisu have suggested.
 
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dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Rob S said:
BTW, worth following @skybluechick today. She's been tweeting furiously and seems to have been picking quite a few holes in Simon Gilbert's reporting.

(For context, she's away days only but doesn't trust anyone in this dispute and just wants it over.)
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Yes she has the same opinion as you. That there were things the QC picked the council up on. Despite the council QC seeming more confident he was not as good when challenged.
 
Sub

Sub

Well-Known Member
Simon Gilbert@TheSimonGilbert · 10s Council QC says 500k escrow account used to pay ACL after club stopped paying rent was funded by the FA.
 
Rob S

Rob S

Well-Known Member
Hobo said:
The JR remit has always been narrow. I think SISU have used it to get disclosure and try and bring things out to their advantage. However the Judge has kept it, rightly, to what is relevant to the case he is hearing.

I think a lot of fans haven't always had their heads around what the JR was going to be about, reading many of the posts in recent months.
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I think this is spot on. Sisu do have loads of documents, they just haven't been able to do much with them (unlike the Higgs case). I've been trying to find out if they may ever become public. Maybe during a civil action? (*groan*)
 
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dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Rob S said:
I think this is spot on. Sisu do have loads of documents, they just haven't been able to do much with them (unlike the Higgs case). I've been trying to find out if they may ever become public. Maybe during a civil action? (*groan*)
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That's the biggest worry if that's what they are gearing themselves for then we have another few years of SISU building towards a civil action with no stadium built.

The biggest threat to them is expulsion from the league after three years. If it gets to that point them they can still negotiate a return to the Ricoh.
I imagine by then it will be the end for many Cov fans
 
Rob S

Rob S

Well-Known Member
dongonzalos said:
Yes she has the same opinion as you. That there were things the QC picked the council up on. Despite the council QC seeming more confident he was not as good when challenged.
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I was actually paraphrasing her thoughts so I don't want to take credit for them!

(Hence the 'Overall thought from yesterday from someone who was paying close attention' intro) on my post at #45
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Rob S said:
I think this is spot on. Sisu do have loads of documents, they just haven't been able to do much with them (unlike the Higgs case). I've been trying to find out if they may ever become public. Maybe during a civil action? (*groan*)
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Funny how sisu seem to have loads of documents that "proove" they're are the victim in all of this. But when it came to finding the Golden share, nothing, apparently. Did Mr Appleton ever find it or did it just come down to the FL deciding that the Golden Share was in Ltd and had never been transfered with them so it couldn't be anywhere else?
 
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dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
tisza said:
public interest being the taxpayers money or having a team in Coventry?
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I got the impression Most of the Coventry fans did not want a charity to be ripped off. Not sure about the wider public. Not sure if that comes into public interest?
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
Sub said:
Simon Gilbert@TheSimonGilbert · 10s Council QC says 500k escrow account used to pay ACL after club stopped paying rent was funded by the FA.
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Keith Perry said:
Council QC says the Escrow account, from which ACL took around £500,000 when Coventry City stopped paying rent, was funded by the Football Association.
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There's a very subtle difference in the reporting.
 
Rob S

Rob S

Well-Known Member
dongonzalos said:
That's the biggest worry if that's what they are gearing themselves for then we have another few years of SISU building towards a civil action with no stadium built.

The biggest threat to them is expulsion from the league after three years. If it gets to that point them they can still negotiate a return to the Ricoh.
I imagine by then it will be the end for many Cov fans
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Absolutely. This is why we desperately need negotiations. I'm still toying with bundling Joy Peter K-H & Chris West into a meeting room. It's intensely frustrating. Joy is 6ft in front of me, CW 8ft front right & PKH over the other side of the room.
 
Hobo

Hobo

Well-Known Member
Rob S said:
I think this is spot on. Sisu do have loads of documents, they just haven't been able to do much with them (unlike the Higgs case). I've been trying to find out if they may ever become public. Maybe during a civil action? (*groan*)
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I would say they remain confidential as they are either deemed sensitive or irrelevant to the case and therefore not entered the public domain. Sensitive in disclosure term means sensitive information not relevant I.e. An email to Chris West might show Joy Seppala's personal mobile number. If the court wanted the document disclosing the number would be blocked out.

Documents may exist but can only be used if they have evidence that supports their case or portions of them can be used that offer the evidence.
 
Sub

Sub

Well-Known Member
Council QC says Sisu trying to get the loan deal overturned to get ACL back to the distressed financial position it was in so they can seek to gain control of the Ricoh Arena.
 
Sub

Sub

Well-Known Member
Simon Gilbert@TheSimonGilbert · 19s Council QC finished by saying Sisu sought to overturn ACL loan deal to distress ACL and gain control of the Ricoh Arena.
 
Rob S

Rob S

Well-Known Member
dongonzalos said:
Thanks Rob

Also do you how SISU have now moved the goalposts for their case?
Is it that they are now saying that councillors were not given enough info?
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Yes (paras. 21–64 in the skeleton argument – not sure if I'm allowed to broadcast so will hold off but note this for later reference) & part of their argument is that West & Reeves didn't tell councillors about the possible restructuring of the Yorkshire Bank loan. Sisu didn't get any details of the council meeting minutes (not sure about cabinet meeting) but I do know that a complaint has gone into the relevant ombudsman (not from Sisu) because of the apparent lack of a record (which is pretty scandalous TBF).
 
Sub

Sub

Well-Known Member
ACL QC says burden of proof lies with Sisu and must include economic analysis of the effect on competition of any state aid. He says Sisu have only provided statements that a market existed.
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
Sub said:
Council QC says Sisu trying to get the loan deal overturned to get ACL back to the distressed financial position it was in so they can seek to gain control of the Ricoh Arena.
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If I agreed with nothing else, I'd say this is beyond dispute.
 
Sub

Sub

Well-Known Member
Simon Gilbert@TheSimonGilbert · 22s ACL QC going over European state aid law. Seems to be arguing this isn't a matter for EU but a national court.
 
Rob S

Rob S

Well-Known Member
ccfcway said:
What's this got to do with garlic ?
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I'll ask her :)

(Assuming her role as chair of stadium group makes her an interested party as well as her City fandom & professional background. Don't read too much into the seating arrangements – we're all jammed in at the back here so all together. Although is telling that the Higgs posse are behind the press bench on the far side of the room from Joy & Tim.)
 
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