Judicial review day 3 - judgement day

[duffer]

Yeah, his twitter was sometimes rather odd.

Then again, it was also somewhat impassioned at times! Would have probably been better off just not answering people on there full-stop.

I think in fairness that if your twitter feed says something like, this is personal and my opinion not my employer's, then I can't see why you're not allowed to engage with people on your own terms rather than that of your employers.

Twitter, imho, is a terrible forum for debate anyway. You're about to deliver your key point, the killer blow, when suddenly you run out of charac

 

[shmmeee]

Agreed. I don't think simon has had to put up with half of the dogs abuse Reid (and Sinclaire) have been subjected to. That said his twitter feed was sometimes odd, and like you said perhaps blocking and ignoring would have been the best option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

No he hasn't (though Rob is trying his best to redress the balance singlehanded it seems), but the reason for that is he didn't make wild claims that were against the views of the majority of his readership without (and this is the important bit) any evidence. Reid would've been fine if he'd either backed his views up or kept them to himself. Instead he let his hatred of the Labour council get in the way and started this ridiculous conspiracy stuff. I think there's a fair bit of arrogance in there, as shown by his comments about SkyBlueSquirrel and other bloggers. He genuinely didn't understand that his word alone is worth no more than anyone else's just because he writes in the Telegraph.

 

[Grendel]

If a company is going bust, is it worth £0 or is it worth (in the worst case scenario) £6.4m?

Are you working for sisu? That's their argument.

 

[Hobo]

Well, the money is given to a stadium management company.
The stadium is used for international matches - the Olympics in 2012 for instance.
So in theory the Ricoh could be competing with other venues within the EU.

Council QC did his best to blur this, but saying Coventry isn't metropolitan like Copenhagen may not be enough.

Don't follow your Olympic analogy, that's not affecting trade between member states.

It means if money were put into a UK car manufacturer which priced Renault and BMW out of the UK market...that would be state aid.

 

[dadgad]

I would imagine that ACL may not have been in immediate financial difficulty, however, they could have been in future if resolution of the problem (or alternative tenants) was not found (unknown at the time of the financial assistance).The fact that the refinancing of the debt allowed ACL to offer a significantly reduced rent agreement is more relevant in my eyes, benefitting the club whilst also protecting a community asset.

SISUs argument appears to be based on relatively minor legal points (probably still considered important in these circumstances though). It doesn't go to the route of the reasoning/issue(s). Why are they unhappy that the council took out the bank debt ? Lets be honest it wasn't because they want to ensure that councils around Europe follow the letter of the law in every state aid case ! Its because they wanted to take control of the debt, and in turn the ground, for a reduced price.

Councils make a mess of things all the time, my personal belief though for what its worth, is that the council should be well within their rights to protect a community asset and just because they didn't follow every single letter of the law shouldn't make a difference in this instance.

Correct assessment here. This is why the judge's interpretation is crucial. He needs to make a call not necessarily to the letter of the law but in its spirit. If he does he will find in favour of the Council, if not, we're all the poorer.

 

[shmmeee]

I think in fairness that if your twitter feed says something like, this is personal and my opinion not my employer's, then I can't see why you're not allowed to engage with people on your own terms rather than that of your employers.

Twitter, imho, is a terrible forum for debate anyway. You're about to deliver your key point, the killer blow, when suddenly you run out of charac

The Twitter account is linked to by the Telegraph and he links back, it also doesn't say it's his personal views it just portrays his journalistic credentials, if he wants a personal account he should create one. I have multiple personal and work accounts for various purposes.

 

[Nick]

Correct assessment here. This is why the judge's interpretation is crucial. He needs to make a call not necessarily to the letter of the law but in its spirit. If he does he will find in favour of the Council, if not, we're all the poorer.

Surely a judge should judge to the letter of the law?

How will you personally be out of pocket if CCC lose?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think in fairness that if your twitter feed says something like, this is personal and my opinion not my employer's, then I can't see why you're not allowed to engage with people on your own terms rather than that of your employers.

Twitter, imho, is a terrible forum for debate anyway. You're about to deliver your key point, the killer blow, when suddenly you run out of charac

Problem is, in the modern world once your name's out there, it's out there, and then reflects on your employer whether your account's personal or not.

Why it's handy to have a name like John Smith rather than Englebert Humperdinck, if you want to be controversial under your own name!

But yes, even I tried to have an argument with Reid on twitter once. Gave up as it's hard to be pithy and cutting regularly in 144 characters!

 

[play_in_skyblue_stripes]

Well, the money is given to a stadium management company.
The stadium is used for international matches - the Olympics in 2012 for instance.
So in theory the Ricoh could be competing with other venues within the EU.

Council QC did his best to blur this, but saying Coventry isn't metropolitan like Copenhagen may not be enough.

I am puzzled by the point Coventry is not metropolitan compared to Copenhagen. Its a big city.
I'm very much against SISU actions but I think this technicality could be crucial.

However I agree with others damages is not likely as in reality SISU prompted the whole thing.

 

[Sky Blues]

Are you working for sisu? That's their argument.

IIRC, Sisu's agents said it was worth £6.4m without CCFC there... If a company was going bust, would it be worth £6.4m?

 

[ccfcway]

who cares about Les Reid, can we not talk about him on a thread about the possible future of CCFC ?

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah quite.

The modern age is also (FWIW!) a fine reason why anybody wanting us all to out ourselves on here is crazy Not that I am anything other than hired scum... but I have no great desire to have to reply here as though an employee of my organisation, and nothing but.

Once it's my name upon something, it's dealing with things professionally, and not calling people a twat, even if they are

Tell me about it. This is the only place my online identity and real world identity co-exist, and I'm not particularly comfortable with it. I have the right to be a nobhead on SBT and it not effect my employment prospects, in a world of no privacy and total permanence, anonymity is the only privacy we have.

 

[Nick]

IIRC, Sisu's agents said it was worth £6.4m without CCFC there... If a company was going bust, would it be worth £6.4m?

Didn't they say it was worth nothing and the £2 million was charitable?

 

[shmmeee]

who cares about Les Reid, can we not talk about him on a thread about the possible future of CCFC ?

Point taken. Apologies.

 

[shmmeee]

Didn't they say it was worth nothing and the £2 million was charitable?

I think that was the last court case. This court case it's worth £6.4m. or £12m. or £15m. Or Nothing. I'm not quite sure.

 

[Harry Krishner]

Surely "state aid" should come from a state- which CCC is not.

Also CCC was acting in the best interests of the local area/economy- which SISU has not- ever.

 

[Sky Blues]

Didn't they say it was worth nothing and the £2 million was charitable?

From Simon Gilbert's Twitter feed, day 1:
"Court hears CBRE valuation of ACL was £19.5m with £1.2m rent per annum and £6.4m with no rent."

 

[stupot07]

No he hasn't (though Rob is trying his best to redress the balance singlehanded it seems), but the reason for that is he didn't make wild claims that were against the views of the majority of his readership without (and this is the important bit) any evidence. Reid would've been fine if he'd either backed his views up or kept them to himself. Instead he let his hatred of the Labour council get in the way and started this ridiculous conspiracy stuff. I think there's a fair bit of arrogance in there, as shown by his comments about SkyBlueSquirrel and other bloggers. He genuinely didn't understand that his word alone is worth no more than anyone else's just because he writes in the Telegraph.

But again (broken record time) that was an opinion piece not a news report, and he was well within his rights to express his opinion, regardless of whether the majority agree or not.

I agree that his responses to that abuse were irresponsible. I don't think he was the only one that showed a fair bit of arrogance on some of those exchanges....


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[fernandopartridge]

It all depends on the Judges decision. But I must point out that on the State Aid guidance and on there flow chart, it clearly states the importance of notifying the EC if there is any State Aid above 200,000 Euro's, which this was.

I think you're reading too much into that. As far as I'm aware (and my job involves spending public money) there isn't a mechanism for notifying the EU.

 

[ccfcway]

on a day where the world will join together and celebrate this fantastic sport we all follow, the club I have followed since I was a little boy is in court, not for the 1st time in 2014.

what a crying shame

 

[shmmeee]

But again (broken record time) that was an opinion piece not a news report, and he was well within his rights to express his opinion, regardless of whether the majority agree or not.

I agree that his responses to that abuse were irresponsible.


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Must....not...respond....out of respect for ccfcway...

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Must....not...respond....out of respect for ccfcway...

Meh, call him a twat behind that anonymous cloak

 

[shmmeee]

I think you're reading too much into that. As far as I'm aware (and my job involves spending public money) there isn't a mechanism for notifying the EU.

What do you mean by that?

 

[Godiva]

Surely "state aid" should come from a state- which CCC is not.

Also CCC was acting in the best interests of the local area/economy- which SISU has not- ever.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

 

[Hobo]

Surely "state aid" should come from a state- which CCC is not.

Also CCC was acting in the best interests of the local area/economy- which SISU has not- ever.

A government body ie A council is part of the state.

 

[play_in_skyblue_stripes]

I am puzzled by the point Coventry is not metropolitan compared to Copenhagen. Its a big city.
I'm very much against SISU actions but I think this technicality could be crucial.

However I agree with others damages is not likely as in reality SISU prompted the whole thing.

How ironic for Nikki Sinclair if SISU win the JR based on the workings of the EU.

The good old EU eh Nikki?

Personally I'm very pro EU and not the "little Englander" type but that way off topic.

 

[Rob S]

And Michael Byng enters the room. Geoffrey Robinson for a full house and the pot?

 

[Chipfat]

By some of the post's the judge has been looking at the root cause of why its got to this position,, the trigger seems to be non payment of rent. If that has forced a rushed process to protect the CCC interest then he may overlook any small failing in the process.

Other than that he will judge the loan was wrong and unlawful no matter about if it was forced or not by Sisu. It will end up in either case with the club not being any closer to coming home..

 

[fernandopartridge]

Don't follow your Olympic analogy, that's not affecting trade between member states.

It means if money were put into a UK car manufacturer which priced Renault and BMW out of the UK market...that would be state aid.

What about the streaking competition? It could have been held in the Netherlands

 

[Deleted member 5849]

And Michael Byng enters the room. Geoffrey Robinson for a full house and the pot?

I'd say Rogues' Gallery, but...

 

[lordsummerisle]

I have multiple personal and work accounts for various purposes.

Your personalities??

 

[Otis]

And Michael Byng enters the room. Geoffrey Robinson for a full house and the pot?

You sure when you heard Byng it wasn't just a microwave going off?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Can we stop this 'community asset' nonsense about the Ricoh. The last time I looked it was a closed environment.

 

[lordsummerisle]

[/B]
What do you mean by that?

They don't have phones or computers? Or writing paper?

That's Government cutbacks for you.

 

[shmmeee]

I'd say Rogues' Gallery, but...

Is McGinnity there?