Just let it happen (Help if you can) (1 Viewer)

[stupot07]

I don't know. Lots of Billionaires own premier league football teams but I can't think of one who owns a premier league football team and premiership Rugby team both operating from the same first class stadium with a 200+ year lease. If Wasps did own us and were willing to invest to get us in the premier league as a package it could be very attractive to some billionaire looking for a vanity project.

Well for a start wasps haven't got the money to gamble on getting us into the PL.

I get what you're saying but I don't buy it, of it was that appealing someone would be snapping up Swansea and ospreys.

I just can't see anyone wanting to buy the 3 businesses and with thr 3 lots of joint liabilities, there are simply too many conflicting priorities.



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[stupot07]

Who knows...

True, nothing is set in stone. But now we're going from "its useless to wait for wasps to fail and move back" to "wasps will buy us get us to the PL, sell us and move back to London". That's more far fetched then the waiting for them to fail.

They may yet move back, but it looks very much that they're here for the long haul.


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[skybluetony176]

Well for a start wasps haven't got the money to gamble on getting us into the PL.

I get what you're saying but I don't buy it, of it was that appealing someone would be snapping up Swansea and ospreys.

I just can't see anyone wanting to buy the 3 businesses and with thr 3 lots of joint liabilities, there are simply too many conflicting priorities.



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I think someone is trying to buy Swansea at the moment but I think Ospreys are a totally separate company though aren't they? You'll also have to excuse my ignorance but are Ospreys actually in the premier league?

People buy whole groups. Most football teams are a group of companies. How many companies made up CCFC before limited went into admin?

 

[stupot07]

I think someone is trying to buy Swansea at the moment but I think Ospreys are a totally separate company though aren't they? You'll also have to excuse my ignorance but are Ospreys actually in the premier league?

People buy whole groups. Most football teams are a group of companies. How many companies made up CCFC before limited went into admin?

Yes, they are separate, but they own a third of thr stadium management company each. Ospreys play in the Pro12 which is equivalent to the premier league and also the European tournament that wasps play in.

Yes, I know that we are and most companies are groups of companies. I just think that the complexity of wasps owning us, the stadium and thr rugby club and all the interrelated companies makes it very difficult to attract a new owner. Ccfc group of companies are no way a comparison of a wasps, ccfc, acl, IEC, group of companies under one ownership.

I am convinced wasps will not buy us anyway, it is too much risk and requires too much money to make us anything other than league one club.

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[Astute]

Well for a start wasps haven't got the money to gamble on getting us into the PL.

How do you know that?

It wouldn't take a lot to get us to the next level. Then our attendances would go up and we would have the match day revenues that we are repeatedly told we need.

Get the right setup and we would have a chance. Nothing is guaranteed. But you can't say no chance. It would be easier for us to get to the Prem than a team like Leicester to win it after scraping survival the season before.

 

[Grendel]

How do you know that?

It wouldn't take a lot to get us to the next level. Then our attendances would go up and we would have the match day revenues that we are repeatedly told we need.

Get the right setup and we would have a chance. Nothing is guaranteed. But you can't say no chance. It would be easier for us to get to the Prem than a team like Leicester to win it after scraping survival the season before.

If you include the equity release Leicesters owners have spent well over £200 million to get to the premier league.

To my knowledge wasps haven't actually spent any money have they? Their debt ratio is as bad as sisu.

 

[stupot07]

How do you know that?

It wouldn't take a lot to get us to the next level. Then our attendances would go up and we would have the match day revenues that we are repeatedly told we need.

Get the right setup and we would have a chance. Nothing is guaranteed. But you can't say no chance. It would be easier for us to get to the Prem than a team like Leicester to win it after scraping survival the season before.

Because we still wouldn't have the financial clout, our turnover in the championship as is, would be about £10.5m (including increased attendance) we can only get limited access to f&bs due to the compass contract, yes we'd get some parking. I imagine the highest our turnover would be £12-12.5m if wasps were over generous with access to revenues

Here's the wage bills of the promoted teams thr last 4-5 years

2011/12
Southampton £28.7m
Reading £26.8m
West ham united £41.6m

2012/13
Cardiff £32.8m
Hull £25.9m
Crystal Palace £18.8m

2013/14
Leicester £36m
QPR £75m
Burnley £15m

2014/15
Norwich £51m
Bournemouth £30m
Watford £21m

Yes, Burnley is low, but still higher then what our turnover would be and that's before you add in rent, utilities, players fees, contribution to the bond interest, academy,etc, you're talking another £3-4m.

Everyone else's wage bill are huge, even Bournemouth seen as a shining light.

Yes, I can't say definitely not, but the odds are stacked against it, and wasos do not have the cash to through £6-10m+ pa on to try and get us in the PL.

This goes against wasps aims to make them the biggest rugby side europe, they want to be the real Madrid of rugby.

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[singers_pore]

I don't expect us to be taken over by Wasps. Nor do I want us to be taken over by Wasps. I say that for the following two reasons:

1. I believe Wasps are going to be in serious financial difficulties after they have spunked all their bond money on player acquisitions, new academy facilities, etc. Wasps and ACL are still loss making entities according to their most recent accounts. I don't see how adding a third loss making entity, namely CCFC, is going to improve the overall financial picture. Yes, there are a few areas of potential synergies between ACL, Wasps, and CCFC but I think those synergies are very small compared to the combined losses of the three entities. And I don't want CCFC to be dragged into Wasps' financial meltdown once their bond becomes due for repayment.

2. The management of Wasps are rugger buggers. They have no interest in football. Even if they acquired CCFC and improved the club's administration, I think that CCFC would always be "second fiddle" to the rugby side of things. As a CCFC fan, I think we need football-minded owners. We don't want the clowns of SISU or the rugger buggers of Wasps, neither of whom have any interest or expertise in football.

I think the best thing for CCFC is to wait for the bond money to run out. It's a long wait (2022) but I think that Wasps will then be gone and the Ricoh can then revert back to CCFC. Of course, that's assuming that the clowns at SISU don't fuc# it up again and assuming that CCC don't want the Ricoh to become an empty white elephant.

Finally, all this discussion about moving to a new stadium is laughable. SISU don't intend to spend a penny on this club. Do you really think they are going to spend millions trying to convert the Butts to a larger stadium or building a new stadium outside of Coventry? If you think that, you belong in a padded cell.

 

[Calista]

Football finance in this country is a cesspit. The dodgy owners, the international tax evasion, the TV contracts and the obscene wages, everything about it in the 21st Century is a world away from how it used to be. But I’ll still watch the Sky Blues under any owner who treats us as a big-city club and puts on matches in Coventry.

There’s no way I’d make a futile moral stand and stop supporting CCFC because of a link with a club who brought top-level sport to Coventry in the face of f**k all protest from their fans. There’s a world of difference from the Wimbledon/MK scenario, but I won’t bother repeating the reasons, because in the eyes of some it makes me a Wasps PR plant.

I can’t see (and wouldn’t want) a direct “takeover” by Wasps, but I can imagine some kind of affiliation and it wouldn’t trouble me, providing we got respect and it gave us hope of better times. On the other hand, if they destroy our Academy I’ll willingly join the lynch mob.

 

[Warwickhunt]

Called it days ago that it could be the ownership being forced to wasps.

Obvious really.

Did you write that? Looks like a press release

It's not surprising people will be encouraging sisu out protests now, that ramped up a few weeks ago.

How about WASPS take us over load the Wasps debt onto CCFC then put us into admin! Only joking! I think

 

[CCFC_Charlie]

If Wasps took us over do you think they'd move us 85 miles up the road as well? Although, I suppose that would be fine though because SISU wouldn't be the ones doing it.

 

[Sick Boy]

This is nothing other than straw clutching and italia trying to ease his conscience. It is also madness to want to be owned by a hedge fund who have moved a club permanently 90miles north.

There is zero evidence to suggest they would want to buy us and even if they did they'd be more likely to squeeze as much money of us as possible to fund the rugby.

 

[Sick Boy]

If Wasps took us over do you think they'd move us 85 miles up the road as well? Although, I suppose that would be fine though because SISU wouldn't be the ones doing it.

You'd have the likes of italia trotting out the excuses saying that if it's good for business then its fair enough.

 

[martcov]

Because we still wouldn't have the financial clout, our turnover in the championship as is, would be about £10.5m (including increased attendance) we can only get limited access to f&bs due to the compass contract, yes we'd get some parking. I imagine the highest our turnover would be £12-12.5m if wasps were over generous with access to revenues

Here's the wage bills of the promoted teams thr last 4-5 years

2011/12
Southampton £28.7m
Reading £26.8m
West ham united £41.6m

2012/13
Cardiff £32.8m
Hull £25.9m
Crystal Palace £18.8m

2013/14
Leicester £36m
QPR £75m
Burnley £15m

2014/15
Norwich £51m
Bournemouth £30m
Watford £21m

Yes, Burnley is low, but still higher then what our turnover would be and that's before you add in rent, utilities, players fees, contribution to the bond interest, academy,etc, you're talking another £3-4m.

Everyone else's wage bill are huge, even Bournemouth seen as a shining light.

Yes, I can't say definitely not, but the odds are stacked against it, and wasos do not have the cash to through £6-10m+ pa on to try and get us in the PL.

This goes against wasps aims to make them the biggest rugby side europe, they want to be the real Madrid of rugby.

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Have you included the TV rights, extra kit sales etc.?

 

[Sick Boy]

Just when it appears the majority of this forum are finally coming together, Italia shows his true colours once again.

 

[martcov]

But the give away the majority of their tickets and concerts and events were happening at the Arena before they came in.

It's not as if they've come in and suddenly developed and implemented a new business plan for the Ricoh.

What's more...they've technically borrowed £35m, repayable in 6 years time. So it's not as if they're brilliant business gurus and have made millions from it.

Granted, SISU are wank but to paint wasps out to be much different...


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Well they have the stadium for 250 years, have the finance and are getting more gigs. We have nothing. So based on that, I would say they are better at business than SISU. Plus the council love them and they get everything they want. All we have to do with the council takes place at appeal courts and costs time and money for SISU. I would say Wasps are different - even if goes pear shaped in the future, it is better than our situation which is going pear shaped now.

 

[Astute]

To my knowledge wasps haven't actually spent any money have they? Their debt ratio is as bad as sisu.

Wasps debts are secured on something that you constantly told us was worthless. Shows how much you know.

 

[stupot07]

Have you included the TV rights, extra kit sales etc.?

Yes, our turnover in league is around £4.5-5m, being in tbr championship adds around £5-6m more including rv, sponsorship, etc. Our turnover on relegation was around £10.5m.

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[Grendel]

Wasps debts are secured on something that you constantly told us was worthless. Shows how much you know.

Er no it isn't - the valuation is a projected valuation.

If the organisation went it to administration the lease reverts back to its original period.

The bonds are not secured in that sense at all are they?

Don't think I said it was worth nothing did I?

 

[Astute]

Yes, our turnover in league is around £4.5-5m, being in tbr championship adds around £5-6m more including rv, sponsorship, etc. Our turnover on relegation was around £10.5m.

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It is said to be worth 5m more just for being there. Then there is the extra income from higher ticket sales.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Well they have the stadium for 250 years, have the finance and are getting more gigs. We have nothing. So based on that, I would say they are better at business than SISU. Plus the council love them and they get everything they want. All we have to do with the council takes place at appeal courts and costs time and money for SISU. I would say Wasps are different - even if goes pear shaped in the future, it is better than our situation which is going pear shaped now.

But Mart, they only thing they've got is the stadium...and that's due partly to CCC. The Ricoh was already getting gigs. They've got finance in the same way we had finance in the 90's...it's all debt...they don't actually own that finance.

Coupled with the fact that they moved their club 90 miles...remember the uproar when we were moved approximately a third of that distance?

Out of the frying pan, into the fire...


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[stupot07]

It is said to be worth 5m more just for being there. Then there is the extra income from higher ticket sales.

Our last turnover in thr championship was £10.5m, our turnover now is around £4.5m. People general have wage bills of around £20m+ to get promoted. Are you really saying wasps wouldn't have to invest heavily on top of diverting matchday income into the club? Ad to that FFP means clubs can make losses of up to £13m pa, and competing against those with parachute payments.

Wasps moved to thr Ricoh because their owner could sustain their £3m pa losses, you really think they have thr money to throw £40m+ at the football club over 2-3 years?

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[Astute]

Er no it isn't - the valuation is a projected valuation.

If the organisation went it to administration the lease reverts back to its original period.

The bonds are not secured in that sense at all are they?

Don't think I said it was worth nothing did I?

You agreed with SISU when they said it was worthless.

You said it was overvalued when SISU tried what they were doing. You said Wasps got it very cheaply when they secured the debt on it. You would get much more respect if you was constant with your views no matter whichever side you was talking about.

 

[italiahorse]

There is zero evidence to suggest they would want to buy us and even if they did they'd be more likely to squeeze as much money of us as possible to fund the rugby.

That's the point. Wasps don't want to give evidence they are interested.
They are being more subtle.
They are squeezing us by pulling out of talks "because CCFC needs to do that first".
Or, with CCFC loosing the academy, "You can use our facilities"
Sisu are self destructing the club and the more pieces it is in the cheaper and easier to pick up it will be.
Moving to the Butts 'next' in temporary stands will further self destruct the finances and it's just a waiting game.
We need Sisu out in the next 2 years before that happens.

 

[stupot07]

That's the point. Wasps don't want to give evidence they are interested.
They are being more subtle.
They are squeezing us by pulling out of talks "because CCFC needs to do that first".
Or, with CCFC loosing the academy, "You can use our facilities"
Sisu are self destructing the club and the more pieces it is in the cheaper and easier to pick up it will be.
Moving to the Butts 'next' in temporary stands will further self destruct the finances and it's just a waiting game.
We need Sisu out in the next 2 years before that happens.

Perhaps the reason wasps give the impression they are not interesteinterested, is because (shot in the dark here), they are not interested?

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[Astute]

Our last turnover in thr championship was £10.5m, our turnover now is around £4.5m. People general have wage bills of around £20m+ to get promoted. Are you really saying wasps wouldn't have to invest heavily on top of diverting matchday income into the club?

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Nobody has said that it would be easy. It isn't even easy for the sides that throw money at it. But nothing is impossible.

 

[italiahorse]

Just when it appears the majority of this forum are finally coming together, Italia shows his true colours once again.

LMFAO
Coming together to do what ?

 

[italiahorse]

Perhaps the reason wasps give the impression they are not interesteinterested, is because (shot in the dark here), they are not interested?
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We shall have to wait to find that out.

 

[stupot07]

Nobody has said that it would be easy. It isn't even easy for the sides that throw money at it. But nothing is impossible.

Do you think wasps will throw cash at the football club on the outside chance they can get to the PL? Even Italia thinks they will just maintain the status quo, whilst milking us.

Wasps simply haven't got the cash

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[Astute]

Perhaps the reason wasps give the impression they are not interesteinterested, is because (shot in the dark here), they are not interested?

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Hardly anyone thinks that they are planning to take our club over. But who would be surprised by anything a hedge fund does?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Uniting against the people that threaten the existence of our clubs. You know the ones that have been here over 100 years. Don't think that's funny do you italia?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Hardly anyone thinks that they are planning to take our club over.

You can add me to the list of those who thinks they would however...

Distress the price down, nice and cheap. It makes sense to me.

Ironically (if you're anti franchising) this is where having a stubborn owner will at least stop us from jumping into the fire ready and willing!

 

[Astute]

Do you think wasps will throw cash at the football club on the outside chance they can get to the PL? Even Italia thinks they will just maintain the status quo, whilst milking us.

Wasps simply haven't got the cash

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I don't even think that they will take our club over.

I didn't think that we would end up going to Northampton either.

 

[italiahorse]

Our last turnover in thr championship was £10.5m, our turnover now is around £4.5m. People general have wage bills of around £20m+ to get promoted. Are you really saying wasps wouldn't have to invest heavily on top of diverting matchday income into the club? Ad to that FFP means clubs can make losses of up to £13m pa, and competing against those with parachute payments.

Wasps moved to thr Ricoh because their owner could sustain their £3m pa losses, you really think they have thr money to throw £40m+ at the football club over 2-3 years?

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Wasps won't need to invest, they will just keep us ticking over at this level and at cost zero for a period.
They will pick the club up for peanuts in a few years time and we will already be using their facilities so no investment costs.
The downside is that they will just let Sisu take us to the abyss and Sisu pride won't allow them to be big enough to stop that happening first.

 

[italiahorse]

Ironically (if you're anti franchising) this is where having a stubborn owner will at least stop us from jumping into the fire ready and willing!

Which will further bring the price down particularly if they move to the Butts and reduce incomes.