Labovitch calls for independent ACL valuation (12 Viewers)

[bigfatronssba]

Maybe the value of when we were there?

Maybe it gives people an idea of what it's worth and an idea of what to bid?

Id be interested to know it's value

My opinion is the stadium value was much lower then and Sisu want this information for their own advantage in the JR.

The value of the stadium in 2012 has nothing to do with the current value of the stadium, therefore it will have no bearing on what to bid in 2014.

 

---

[dongonzalos]

Not read the article yet, there should be an independent valuation.
It should be a projected one based on the football club been at the Ricoh. I do not think SISU should gain financial reward for withholding rent and moving the club.
Then once they have the valuation obviously Higgs are still free to say we do not want to sell at that low value. Just like TF SISU would be crazy to sell at the bottom of the business cycle.

 

[Grendel]

Independent valuation, the independent part is easy there are plenty of professional firms available to do this, the basis of the valuation would be the difficult part. Do we base it on the main tenant being a club averaging 20,000 crowds in the championship (is when the SISU Master Operators took over) or is it based on 10,000 fans in League 1 or based on a club playing in Northants.

I find this a bizarre argument. If CCFC are the main reason its worth any money at all why should CCFC pay the full value. That's absurd logic - anyway we are told the share has not depreciated since the club moved out - that's the view of PWKH and Higgs. You seem to be saying they are not telling the truth?

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

If we ignore the "we've moved on" statements from SISU (which I think most people have), the only way the club will move forward is to agree some sort of deal to get back to the Ricoh.

That means that both parties have to put the "bad blood" behind them and try to develop a constructive dialogue.

On that basis, I have to question whether statements like this (made by either "side") are helpful.

 

[Grendel]

Not read the article yet, there should be an independent valuation.
It should be a projected one based on the football club been at the Ricoh. I do not think SISU should gain financial reward for withholding rent and moving the club.
Then once they have the valuation obviously Higgs are still free to say we do not want to sell at that low value. Just like TF SISU would be crazy to sell at the bottom of the business cycle.

PWKH says the value hasn't been diminished one penny since the club moved out.

What are you suggesting?

 

[bigfatronssba]

I find this a bizarre argument. If CCFC are the main reason its worth any money at all why should CCFC pay the full value. That's absurd logic - anyway we are told the share has not depreciated since the club moved out - that's the view of PWKH and Higgs. You seem to be saying they are not telling the truth?

Because ccfc willingly signed a contract that allowed acl to build there business plan around it?

Should Debenhams pay nothing in rent to West Orchards as they are the main tenant?

 

[dongonzalos]

Yes just read the article it is to with pointless JR
Why did I bother?

 

[Nick]

SISU get ACL for zero , SISU are the main tenant, then sell ccfc but tie them into a rental of £1.5m p.a.payable to SISU, charity ripped off, club saddled with a high rent but access to pie money agreed, SISU get a large chunk of their money back Nick & Grendel happy as justice has been served.

Unfortunately work in an industry where there are hedge funds buying businesses to get access to properties doing sale and leasebacks and saddling the residual business with uncommercial rents. Above might seem far fetched but its the industry that they are in and Nick & Grendel are struggling to separate the club from SISU. SISU's motivations are clear and it isn't the benefit of the club.

Not that I would want that, but why is it ok to pay the rent to acl but not sisu?

 

[Grendel]

Because ccfc willingly signed a contract that allowed acl to build there business plan around it?

Should Debenhams pay nothing in rent to West Orchards as they are the main tenant?

We are told the valuation has stayed the same - don't you believe the public statement made? I'd be careful of I were you.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Deleted member 5849....Ahh, but when I've given you 3 chances in 6 years to make an offer, and also offer a vastly reduced rent, and you turn your nose up at the offers, and move out to Northampton after telling me "You've moved on" I find myself basically saying to you.......F**k off then, and I'll sell to whom I want.

 

[dongonzalos]

PWKH says the value hasn't been diminished one penny since the club moved out.

What are you suggesting?

The value is what they are prepared to sell it for and what someone is willing to pay.

If the person intending to pay, wanted an independent valuation in order to make an offer, then I think it should be a valuation ignoring what they have done to devalue it. Seems only fair.

 

[Nick]

Deleted member 5849....Ahh, but when I've given you 3 chances in 6 years to make an offer, and also offer a vastly reduced rent, and you turn your nose up at the offers, and move out to Northampton after telling me "You've moved on" I find myself basically saying to you.......F**k off then, and I'll sell to whom I want.

So you are saying acl and the council are doing it out of spite?

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Not that I would want that, but why is it ok to pay the rent to acl but not sisu?

Because the level of rent is higher than before and a lot higher than what is currently being offered and on a point of principle a charity would have lost out and SISU would have secured a long-term lease income that they have done nothing for other than run a football club very badly

 

[chiefdave]

Maybe the value of when we were there?

Maybe it gives people an idea of what it's worth and an idea of what to bid?

Id be interested to know it's value

Given the timeframe I suspect it may be a valuation from the period in which things were very uncertain and therefore a lower end valuation. I wouldn't be surprised if ML knows what the valuation is and that's why he's so keen for this particular valuation to be made public.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Deleted member 5849....Ahh, but when I've given you 3 chances in 6 years to make an offer, and also offer a vastly reduced rent, and you turn your nose up at the offers, and move out to Northampton after telling me "You've moved on" I find myself basically saying to you.......F**k off then, and I'll sell to whom I want.

I agree SISU have had plenty of opportunities to strike a deal, it obviously hasn't suited them for whatever reason.

However, "I'll sell to whom I want", ACL/CCC must realise that CCFC (whoever owns them) are the only people they can really sell to. While ACL MAY be ticking over OK as a business, long term they will need to do something....nobody else locally other than CCFC will have the potential to actually put bums on seats in a worthwhile volume.

A very viscous circle

 

[chiefdave]

we are told the share has not depreciated since the club moved out - that's the view of PWKH and Higgs. You seem to be saying they are not telling the truth?

Are you referring to the amount shown for Higgs share in ACL in the Higgs account? Would that not be more a book value for accounting purposes than a value for sale?

 

[vincy]

Can we get a valuation of CCFC while we are at it?

 

[sky blue john]

Yawn !!
Not this old chestnut again.
When did ML started talking for the fans?
Which company hat was he wearing when he made this statement ?

 

[chiefdave]

However, "I'll sell to whom I want", ACL/CCC must realise that CCFC (whoever owns them) are the only people they can really sell to. While ACL MAY be ticking over OK as a business, long term they will need to do something....nobody else locally other than CCFC will have the potential to actually put bums on seats in a worthwhile volume.

The big problem is we don't know if ACL is ticking over OK. They could be losing money every month for all we know. However if they are breaking even or making a profit there isn't really a timeframe in which they need to do anything, they can just hold on to the share indefinitely in the hope that SISU eventually leave and new owners come in they can take advantage of / make a fair deal with (depending on your view of ACL).

 

[Houdi]

I would imagine that this latest desperate statement only confirms to CCC/ACL that they have SISU by the throat,there is clearly no plan B,and the trouble for SISU is everyone knows it.After the recent court case,it is hard to believe that the Higgs Trust would consider going back into negotiations with SISU ever again,and that's assuming CCC would ever agree to joint ownership of ACL with their sworn enemies SISU.

 

[sky blue john]

Can we get a valuation of CCFC while we are at it?

Will CCFC be worth more or less playing in Northampton ?

 

[sky blue john]

I would imagine that this latest desperate statement only confirms to CCC/ACL that they have SISU by the throat,there is clearly no plan B,and the trouble for SISU is everyone knows it.After the recent court case,it is hard to believe that the Higgs Trust would consider going back into negotiations with SISU ever again,and that's assuming CCC would ever agree to joint ownership of ACL with their sworn enemies SISU.

I agree totally with this which means the best solution for CCFC is for Sisu to sell up and fuck off !!!!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If we ignore the "we've moved on" statements from SISU (which I think most people have), the only way the club will move forward is to agree some sort of deal to get back to the Ricoh.

That means that both parties have to put the "bad blood" behind them and try to develop a constructive dialogue.

Be nice, wouldn't it

They can't do it by themselves though, not enough trust. So surely mediation/arbitration is the way forward, so at least they start talking. Within that would have to be a discussion of how to value the ground too, be it for rent or purchase purposes, but it'd be done in a more 'civilised' way.

I'm happy to accept I don't know if a ground is worth £5.50 or £550million, so appealing to me to resolve it is unhelpful really.

 

[skybluetony176]

Bit of a non story really. We all know what, how and why Higgs & CCC came to the valuations they did in their accounts. Perhaps ML really should have a meeting with OSB so he can explain it or even just read Simon's article if he really is struggling to understand it.

I suspect ML understands fully the what, how and why he's just muddying the waters ahead of the JR. I dare say we'll be seeing more of this from the sisu camp on the run up. I don't know who they're trying to convince, us or themselves. ACL, CCC & Higgs have it right, keep quiet until it's over.

 

[Astute]

According to Higgs it hasnt effected the value one bit. You are on dangerous ground there.

Don't you mean affected?

Are you proud of SISU for taking our club away from Coventry so they can try and devalue the Ricoh?

 

[James Smith]

So basically the PR non executive director* for the club has asked for a historical valuation reports to be published. These were done when the rent boycott was in operation, and would surely have affected the figures. I'd be more interested in a valuation of ACL now than ACL then, as it would show how they're doing (better or worse) without us. Getting one done now and releasing the older one might be interesting. Roll on the Judicial Review I guess.

I'd actually be more interested still to know how the work on getting a site for our new stadium is going from Mr Labovitch. We will be in Northampton for ever at this rate and there might not be a club left if we don't produce some plans and apply for planning permission soon.

*still makes me laugh.

 

[Matty_CCFC]

Full story:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/football-club-officials-call-ricoh-7073254


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is it just me but every time I here this mans name it makes my skin crawl.

 

[James Smith]

The danger with such analogies is if someone doesn't want to sell their house to me, but will to Rick Savage, they can't really be surprised if I decide to live somewhere else.

Do you think he'd re-brand the hotel and make it more rock star like?

 

[ArchieLittle]

I know what I paid for my house, I know what local estate agents would value it at and I know what I would accept for it.
They are all different figures, and anyone can make me an offer.
The only one that counts is what I would accept for it.

 

[James Smith]

The danger with such analogies is if someone doesn't want to sell their house to me, but will to Rick Savage, they can't really be surprised if I decide to live somewhere else.

Do you think he'd re-brand the hotel and make it more rock star like?

I'm assuming you meant Mr Def Leppard and not the former professional wrestler turned TV host or the porn director.

 

[Ian1779]

Given the timeframe I suspect it may be a valuation from the period in which things were very uncertain and therefore a lower end valuation. I wouldn't be surprised if ML knows what the valuation is and that's why he's so keen for this particular valuation to be made public.

Think you have hit nail on head.

 

[Grendel]

Bit of a non story really. We all know what, how and why Higgs & CCC came to the valuations they did in their accounts. Perhaps ML really should have a meeting with OSB so he can explain it or even just read Simon's article if he really is struggling to understand it.

I suspect ML understands fully the what, how and why he's just muddying the waters ahead of the JR. I dare say we'll be seeing more of this from the sisu camp on the run up. I don't know who they're trying to convince, us or themselves. ACL, CCC & Higgs have it right, keep quiet until it's over.

What are you on about?

Do you fancy OSB?

 

[Hobo]

What are you on about?

Do you fancy OSB?

What are you on about?
Are you Labo's bitch?

 

[Grendel]

Don't you mean affected?

Are you proud of SISU for taking our club away from Coventry so they can try and devalue the Ricoh?

You seem to be dodging the question.

Your question with a question is typically an attempt at sidetracking.

I'm certainly not proud of a council that has contempt for its club and their supporters

If the club is there or not hasnt changed the valuation. Why are you contradicting the statements issued on this?

 

[James Smith]

Whatever the valuation of ACL was it can't have been worse than the valuation of our club at that point.