Labovitch calls for independent ACL valuation (29 Viewers)

Sky Blue Kid · May 5, 2014

@ Nick......Stop trying to put words into my mouth mate. My post clearly states, that SISU have been offered at least 3 chances to buy, and countless chances to discuss a rental deal including "Pie Money" All to which they have turned their noses up at! SISU are without question trying to distress ACL/Higgs into submission. ACL/Higgs can sell to whoever they wish, and yes even SISU at the right price. That price being the one acceptable to ACL/Higgs. It's as simple as that.

Sky Blue Pete · May 5, 2014

It's worth nothing if there is no buyer and it's priceless if the owners don't want to sell.

Make an offer you twat! Nice to see you've moved on

Lorksalordy · May 5, 2014

"It’s confusing for fans and not helpful in resolving the situation."
How he can keep a straight face and spout this hypocritical nonsense is beyond me - his statement only makes sense if you replace "It's" with "My role". He should be put in the stocks and have lumps of smelly stuff thrown at him.

Nick · May 5, 2014

Sky Blue Pete said:
It's worth nothing if there is no buyer and it's priceless if the owners don't want to sell.

Make an offer you twat! Nice to see you've moved on

Surely they need a valuation to make an offer?

ArchieLittle · May 5, 2014

Nick said:
Surely they need a valuation to make an offer?

They need to make their own valuation and make an offer based on that.
ACL don't need to know their valuation, just the offer

Otis · May 5, 2014

I see no problem whatsoever with an independant evaluation.

Grendel · May 5, 2014

Otis said:
I see no problem whatsoever with an independant evaluation.

Its fairy obvious he knows what the valuation is.

Just imagine the fuss if CCFC was valued at a pound and sisu put it out there they wanted £8 million

Whàt would people call them?

Rusty Trombone · May 5, 2014

SISU spent plenty of time doing due diligence for the purchase of Higgs shares, they would already have their own valuation from their own experts. Maybe ML could publish the valuation they had done.

Whilst it would be interesting to know what the Pwc valuation was, it was 2 years ago, and under different circumstances.

stupot07 · May 5, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
SISU spent plenty of time doing due diligence for the purchase of Higgs shares, they would already have their own valuation from their own experts. Maybe ML could publish the valuation they had done.

Whilst it would be interesting to know what the Pwc valuation was, it was 2 years ago, and under different circumstances.

Surely if the PWC valuation is worthless because it was 2 years ago and under different circumstances, then so is Sisu's due diligence and valuation as that was also 2 years ago?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Deleted member 5849 · May 5, 2014

Otis said:
I see no problem whatsoever with an independant evaluation.

Careful now Mark

Grendel · May 5, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
SISU spent plenty of time doing due diligence for the purchase of Higgs shares, they would already have their own valuation from their own experts. Maybe ML could publish the valuation they had done.

Whilst it would be interesting to know what the Pwc valuation was, it was 2 years ago, and under different circumstances.

What were the different circumstances?

ccfcway · May 5, 2014

"It’s confusing for fans and not helpful in resolving the situation."

yer, announcing 3 months ago that we should be in a position to announce where our new stadium is in the next 3 weeks, isnt confusing at all is it Mark ?
Not even seeing who our owner is isnt confusing at all is is Mark ?
Saying you have moved on, yet keeping banging on about the Ricoh isnt confusing at all is it Mark ?
not doing a short term deal to rent a stadium in our home town, whilst being more financially beneficial to the club isnt confusing at all is it Mark ?
offering £2 million to a charity, yet still not paying the £590k owed isnt confusing at all is it Mark ?

Grendel · May 5, 2014

ccfcway said:
"It’s confusing for fans and not helpful in resolving the situation."

yer, announcing 3 months ago that we should be in a position to announce where our new stadium is in the next 3 weeks, isnt confusing at all is it Mark ?
Not even seeing who our owner is isnt confusing at all is is Mark ?
Saying you have moved on, yet keeping banging on about the Ricoh isnt confusing at all is it Mark ?
not doing a shirt term deal to rent a stadium in our home time, whilst being more financially beneficial to the club isnt confusing at all is it Mark ?
offering £2 million to a charity, yet still not paying the £590k owed isnt confusing at all is it Mark ?

They can't pay the £590,000. The &2 milliion offer was preceded by a much higher offer.

Ah well.

ccfcway · May 5, 2014

Grendel said:
They can't pay the £590,000. The &2 milliion offer was preceded by a much higher offer.

Ah well.

couldnt pay the rent either i suppose ?

ah well.

Rusty Trombone · May 5, 2014

stupot07 said:
Surely if the PWC valuation is worthless because it was 2 years ago and under different circumstances, then so is Sisu's due diligence and valuation as that was also 2 years ago?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

I agree, it's ML that doesn't seem to appreciate that.

Grendel · May 5, 2014

ccfcway said:
couldnt pay the rent either i suppose ?

ah well.

That's correct - not under one regime but under two

ccfcway · May 5, 2014

Grendel said:
That's correct - not under one regime but under two

not correct though is it, they choose not to pay the rent.

Rusty Trombone · May 5, 2014

Grendel said:
What were the different circumstances?

Club moving out and uncertainty over whether ACL could generate other income to cover what the club was paying. ACL have traded for two years since and don't appear to have any problems financially.

Grendel · May 5, 2014

ccfcway said:
not correct though is it, they choose not to pay the rent.

No the club was losing millions a year so the club clearly could not afford to pay the rent.

Your accusation that the regime which was fronted up by joe Elliot could afford the rent suggests they were holding money back from creditors. That's a serious accusation.

Nick · May 5, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
I agree, it's ML that doesn't seem to appreciate that.

Unless he knows it's been valued at nothing and wants it to be made public that value is nothing? Then when acl want silly money they look bad.

Not saying he does, just an idea

Grendel · May 5, 2014

Rusty Trombone said:
Club moving out and uncertainty over whether ACL could generate other income to cover what the club was paying. ACL have traded for two years since and don't appear to have any problems financially.

The club didn't move out two years ago did they?

ccfcway · May 5, 2014

Grendel said:
No the club was losing millions a year so the club clearly could not afford to pay the rent.

Your accusation that the regime which was fronted up by joe Elliot could afford the rent suggests they were holding money back from creditors. That's a serious accusation.

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/n...pay_rent_not_sisu__deering_829590/index.shtml

Not me saying it, SISU themselves !

chiefdave · May 5, 2014

Nick said:
Surely they need a valuation to make an offer?

Not really, they offer what they think it is worth or what they are prepared to pay. If they are uncertain on some issues then they make the offer conditional and of course no sale goes through until due diligence is complete. Happens all the time in business. If SISU want to buy this is the way forward, put an offer in and then there's something to discuss. We then know they are serious and pressure can be put on the council. At the moment there's not really anything to put pressure on the council about if we're building a new stadium outside the city.

To use the old favourite house analogy if you put in an offer to buy a house and have it accepted generally before completion you will have a survey done (the equivalent of due diligence), if you find something like the boiler is knackered or the roof leaks you speak with the owner and adjust your offer accordingly. The buyer can pull out of course but if you have genuine reason to lower the price they most likely will accept your revised offer knowing any other potential buyer will spot the same thing.

Godiva · May 5, 2014

ML calls for making the 2012 valuations public.
I don't think it has anything to do with sisu wanting to initiate negotiations at this point - it's about putting facts into the public domain and is aimed at slowly winning over fans, businesses and even politicians.

If the reports are kept hidden - as comments from Higgs and ACL suggest, then the fair question is 'why?'. The reports tells nothing about the present valuation and we already know from the last day in court that they are showing values way below the general expectation - only not the exact numbers.

Question is if the businesses in and around the Ricoh will keep on accepting the council spending money (the bail out) on supressing their income by keeping some 300.000 punters away their area.
Question is if the politicians who were instructed to follow the party line and vote for the bailout really knew all details of the preceding negotiations and if the facts coming out these days are surprising to them. Maybe some will start asking if another arrangement can bring the club back to the benefit of the fans and the Ricoh area businesses.

Underestimating and ridiculing ML or sisu is not helping anyone.

ccfcway · May 5, 2014

Godiva said:
If the reports are kept hidden - as comments from Higgs and ACL suggest, then the fair question is 'why?'. .

A fair answer would be that they dont want to sell to SISU

Rusty Trombone · May 5, 2014

Nick said:
Unless he knows it's been valued at nothing and wants it to be made public that value is nothing? Then when acl want silly money they look bad.

Not saying he does, just an idea

I doubt Deering was correct when she said the £5.5m offer was in recognition of Higgs charitable status. The £2m cash offer followed that, so realistically there is no way that the value is zero.

Maybe ML issuing their valuation would force the issue a bit more.

Nick · May 5, 2014

chiefdave said:
Not really, they offer what they think it is worth or what they are prepared to pay. If they are uncertain on some issues then they make the offer conditional and of course no sale goes through until due diligence is complete. Happens all the time in business. If SISU want to buy this is the way forward, put an offer in and then there's something to discuss. We then know they are serious and pressure can be put on the council. At the moment there's not really anything to put pressure on the council about if we're building a new stadium outside the city.

To use the old favourite house analogy if you put in an offer to buy a house and have it accepted generally before completion you will have a survey done (the equivalent of due diligence), if you find something like the boiler is knackered or the roof leaks you speak with the owner and adjust your offer accordingly. The buyer can pull out of course but if you have genuine reason to lower the price they most likely will accept your revised offer knowing any other potential buyer will spot the same thing.

Surely by then a specialist has put a value on it that I would base my offer on?

Nick · May 5, 2014

ccfcway said:
A fair answer would be that they dont want to sell to SISU

So they are doing it out of spite? They don't want the cLub home asap?

Rusty Trombone · May 5, 2014

Grendel said:
The club didn't move out two years ago did they?

No, I should have said the dispute was ongoing, and the rent was under threat.

Grendel · May 5, 2014

ccfcway said:
http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/n...pay_rent_not_sisu__deering_829590/index.shtml

Not me saying it, SISU themselves !

That doesn't say they could afford it. The club was losing millions so it couldn't. You could also find a similar story that said the club chose not to pay Leon Bests transfer fee.

Why didn't they - couldn't be bothered? If was the clubs decision

Disturbingly you are one poster who never seemed to have an issue with the original rent even though it bankrupted the club not once but twice.

Before you come back with another inane sound bite focus not on sisu but prior owners. Why was it a problem for them?

ccfcway · May 5, 2014

Nick said:
So they are doing it out of spite? They don't want the cLub home asap?

Club have moved on and are building a new ground, Joy said so. I would like ACL to announce what is on the table in the short term for a rent deal until the new ground is built. I would question why they couldn't or wouldn't make that public.

Godiva · May 5, 2014

ccfcway said:
A fair answer would be that they dont want to sell to SISU

Maybe - but a fair question could be have all politicians who voted for the bailout seen the valuation?

ccfcway · May 5, 2014

Grendel said:
That doesn't say they could afford it. The club was losing millions so it couldn't. You could also find a similar story that said the club chose not to pay Leon Bests transfer fee.

Why didn't they - couldn't be bothered? If was the clubs decision

Disturbingly you are one poster who never seemed to have an issue with the original rent even though it bankrupted the club not once but twice.

Before you come back with another inane sound bite focus not on sisu but prior owners. Why was it a problem for them?

When on earth have i ever said i didn't have an issue with the rent, it was too expensive, simple as that.

Interesting that you are saying SISU make "inane soundbites"

chiefdave · May 5, 2014

Nick said:
Surely by then a specialist has put a value on it that I would base my offer on?

Depends what business your buying really. If the business is to sit alongside existing businesses you own then it has a value to you and you offer based around that. Most likely it is based on a combination of how much you think its worth and how much it would cost you to start the business yourself. For example say Coke wanted to buy a bottling plant, they would probably have an idea how much it would cost to build one from scratch so if they can purchase an existing one at a lower price that is good business for them. Thats why you often see companies offer more than the current share price in a takeover, the value to them is worth more than the actual value of the company that isn't for sale.

In our case you would look at the cost of the new stadium and think if we could get the Ricoh on an extended leasehold for less than that it would be good business. The flip of that would be if SISU believe ACL will struggle without them and / or are not worth much they might wait it out to see if they can pick them up on the cheap. After all why would you pay millions for something you might get for nothing in a couple of years?

Godiva · May 5, 2014

ccfcway said:
Club have moved on and are building a new ground, Joy said so. I would like ACL to announce what is on the table in the short term for a rent deal until the new ground is built. I would question why they couldn't or wouldn't make that public.

If I could moderate this debate I would erase any post that contained 'a house is valuated ...' and 'they have moved on ...'

Valuation of property and business is very different. The analogy is very poor.

Neither ACL nor sisu have moved on. Both actually want the club to play at the Ricoh. ACL hope it will happen when sisu runs out of money, sisu hope it will happen when ACL runs out of money.

Labovitch calls for independent ACL valuation (29 Viewers)

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