left wing agitation and John Mcdonnell (4 Viewers)

[Kingokings204]

I don't believe it, not when the impact on services are calculated into that !

I don't believe it also. A lot come here and pay their taxes and do great jobs that we need but a lot also don't pay there fair share and claim all sorts and send it back home to their countries of origin to family still there.

I accept more funding needs to happen but if you can't acknowledge a demand side to this issue then that's the problem. 10m in ten years isn't sustainable.

 

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[Kingokings204]

The new arrivals from abroad are net contributors to the economy, so without them there'll be even less public funds to go around for schools etc.

So by that logic we need lots more new arrivals then?

 

[Ian1779]

How do things compare to the late Seventies/early Eighties when I was at school ? Because I remember those being fairly recessional times and our classrooms being makeshift huts and text books being shared etc. Some of the buildings were quite antiquated then ?!
People talk about budgets which of course are tight now but when are folk going to accept that the impact of 10 million new arrivals from abroad over the last 20 years are going to have a huge influence on resources, whether that be in schools, hospitals, transport infrastructure.........and with so many working in the service industry and low paid distribution jobs, their tax revenues must be negligible in reality to what's required.

The main issue in schools are that the funding has not increased at the rate at which everything else has. Give you an example over pensions and NI contributions that the school as an employer has to pay. Both have gone up in the last 12/18 months and the funding has not been increased to cover this. Net result is that schools either lay off or don't replace teachers as a result.

Also in the education 'budget' is the countless millions wasted on the free school project which has deliver nothing in terms of driving forward educational standards or supporting the need for extra school places.

If the money coming in from central government ultimately does not cover the money needed to go out, what do we do? Reduce staff which then impacts on student outcomes, which impacts on their ability to gain meaningful employment, which impacts on the ability to properly fill the skilled jobs we need in this country, which brings the need to look outside of this country for those workers.

What worries me more is the next step... how long until this sham of a government give people the chance to profit from education?

 

[Ian1779]

A lot come here and pay their taxes and do great jobs that we need but a lot also don't pay there fair share and claim all sorts and send it back home to their countries of origin to family still there.

The 'a lot that claim all sorts' you refer to is probably less than 0.1% of all those from outside of the UK that come here to work.

Yet if you read it in some papers they make it sound like it's 50%

No wonder there is so much intolerance in our society.

 

[Nick]

The main issue in schools are that the funding has not increased at the rate at which everything else has. Give you an example over pensions and NI contributions that the school as an employer has to pay. Both have gone up in the last 12/18 months and the funding has not been increased to cover this. Net result is that schools either lay off or don't replace teachers as a result.

Also in the education 'budget' is the countless millions wasted on the free school project which has deliver nothing in terms of driving forward educational standards or supporting the need for extra school places.

If the money coming in from central government ultimately does not cover the money needed to go out, what do we do? Reduce staff which then impacts on student outcomes, which impacts on their ability to gain meaningful employment, which impacts on the ability to properly fill the skilled jobs we need in this country, which brings the need to look outside of this country for those workers.

What worries me more is the next step... how long until this sham of a government give people the chance to profit from education?

What's the point of "free" schools? Isn't it just like a normal school but not controlled by a council?

 

[wingy]

The main issue in schools are that the funding has not increased at the rate at which everything else has. Give you an example over pensions and NI contributions that the school as an employer has to pay. Both have gone up in the last 12/18 months and the funding has not been increased to cover this. Net result is that schools either lay off or don't replace teachers as a result.

Also in the education 'budget' is the countless millions wasted on the free school project which has deliver nothing in terms of driving forward educational standards or supporting the need for extra school places.

If the money coming in from central government ultimately does not cover the money needed to go out, what do we do? Reduce staff which then impacts on student outcomes, which impacts on their ability to gain meaningful employment, which impacts on the ability to properly fill the skilled jobs we need in this country, which brings the need to look outside of this country for those workers.

What worries me more is the next step... how long until this sham of a government give people the chance to profit from education?

I'd wager many already do.

 

[Ian1779]

What's the point of "free" schools? Isn't it just like a normal school but not controlled by a council?

Not many schools are now left under council control as most have converted to academies.

A free school is a school controlled by no-one. Technically they answer directly to the DFE but pretty much they have no accountability day to day. It can in theory be set up an opened by anyone (you don't even have to be a qualified teacher to set one up) and then you get funding from government if they accept your application. It could be housed in an office building, community centre... pretty much anywhere.

I would say something like setting up a free school at a football academy would be a good idea - maybe not at our level but at a big PL club like Man Utd.

 

[Kingokings204]

The 'a lot that claim all sorts' you refer to is probably less than 0.1% of all those from outside of the UK that come here to work.

Yet if you read it in some papers they make it sound like it's 50%

No wonder there is so much intolerance in our society.

There is no need to go on the defensive. I have accepted many come to work and pay taxes but I also state there is a demand issue here that needs sorting. Do you accept that?

 

[shmmeee]

What's the point of "free" schools? Isn't it just like a normal school but not controlled by a council?

I worked for a free school once, it was a fucking shit show and shut down due to financial malpractice within a month of me leaving.

It's basically relaxing of a shit load of regulations so any fucker can open a school anywhere and staff it with anyone. For some reason, that doesn't always work. I wonder why. Usually it's a religious school in an office block like that Siva School (that was rated Inadequate recently) or a "business" school, also in an office block, run by some twat in a suit (that's the one I was at and there's one in Nuneaton somewhere).

Just another way for a few Tory donors to screw some cash out the system, just like Academies really. None of them do anything your average school couldn't do. Just trying to scam a few parents into sending their kids there.

 

[shmmeee]

So by that logic we need lots more new arrivals then?

Our current economic system does require constant population growth, yeah.

 

[Ian1779]

There is no need to go on the defensive. I have accepted many come to work and pay taxes but I also state there is a demand issue here that needs sorting. Do you accept that?

It's not on the defensive but you make it sound like problem is much bigger than it actually is - that may not have been your intention. A bit like the 'health tourism' scandal that turned out to be less than 0.1% of NHS spend.

I would say there are far more pressing issues in terms of tax collection and evasion than what is wasted in welfare.

 

[chiefdave]

how long until this sham of a government give people the chance to profit from education?

They already do with academies. Just because they are trusts and supposedly non-profit doesn't stop those at the top taking 7 figure salaries and / or charging management fees. Which of course then means there less money for running the school itself.

 

[Ian1779]

I worked for a free school once, it was a fucking shit show and shut down due to financial malpractice within a month of me leaving.

It's basically relaxing of a shit load of regulations so any fucker can open a school anywhere and staff it with anyone. For some reason, that doesn't always work. I wonder why. Usually it's a religious school in an office block like that Siva School (that was rated Inadequate recently) or a "business" school, also in an office block, run by some twat in a suit (that's the one I was at and there's one in Nuneaton somewhere).

Just another way for a few Tory donors to screw some cash out the system, just like Academies really. None of them do anything your average school couldn't do. Just trying to scam a few parents into sending their kids there.

Put it much better than I did.

 

[Nick]

Not many schools are now left under council control as most have converted to academies.

A free school is a school controlled by no-one. Technically they answer directly to the DFE but pretty much they have no accountability day to day. It can in theory be set up an opened by anyone (you don't even have to be a qualified teacher to set one up) and then you get funding from government if they accept your application. It could be housed in an office building, community centre... pretty much anywhere.

I would say something like setting up a free school at a football academy would be a good idea - maybe not at our level but at a big PL club like Man Utd.

ah, like the one in Walsgrave that was a barclays office!

Do they still have national curriculum, offsted?

 

[Ian1779]

They already do with academies. Just because they are trusts and supposedly non-profit doesn't stop those at the top taking 7 figure salaries and / or charging management fees. Which of course then means there less money for running the school itself.

At this stage I think it's jobs for the boys in terms of those salaries and consultancy fees... but how long till we see 'Virgin Schools' popping up somewhere....

 

[Ian1779]

ah, like the one in Walsgrave that was a barclays office!

Do they still have national curriculum, offsted?

National curriculum - not really.. OFSTED yes but it can be anywhere between 1-3 years before a full judgement is made in some cases.. plenty of time to waste a fuck load of money and mess up a kids education.

As shmmeee said - an awful lot fail pretty early on because of poor financial management.

 

[Nick]

National curriculum - not really.. OFSTED yes but it can be anywhere between 1-3 years before a full judgement is made in some cases.. plenty of time to waste a fuck load of money and mess up a kids education.

As shmmeee said - an awful lot fail pretty early on because of poor financial management.

Are a lot of them religion based?

 

[Ian1779]

Are a lot of them religion based?

Some are - and we had the situation with the Trojan Horse schools not too long ago.

I would say that more now are not affiliated to a particular religion, but it was always a good way to get hands on some land previously - which was a problem in itself - hence them being put in office blocks in some cases.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Our current economic system does require constant population growth, yeah.

Yup.

The immigration restriction argument doesn't work... unless you're prepared to change the whole system - raise taxes, invest in training, invest in wages.

Invest in an infrastructure.

 

[Ashdown]

The reason for new people is simply a complete reliance on consumerism to the masses to fuel the economy but I still think that policy is incredibly dangerous for lots of reasons but the main one being that in not too long, those same people, many of who, won't have really been able to accumulate a lot of wealth will become part of the huge 'aged population' that will need taking care of.
The cost of living in the UK now outweighs many peoples earnings, leaving them with little chance to save.

Many also though are complete arseholes who cannot manage money and piss it up the wall anyway and hope society will pick up the pieces.