stupot07
Well-Known Member
Agreed. And I can't see them coming and building a hotel and some eateries.
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Just putting aside the moral argument for a moment, can we consider how big a product Wasps are offering.
Currently two "franchise clubs", London Welsh and London Irish, at Oxford and Reading respectively, get what we would consider as appalling crowds for their home league fixtures 3,000 for Welsh, 6,000 odd for Irish. Other than the odd European game I can't see how much money or employment Wasps would bring to the wider economy. Rugby, much as I personally enjoy it, doesn't come close to football in terms of draw or prestige.
As an example, what's the last big European game of rugby anyone here can remember? Other than Leicester, Northampton or Bath, can anyone name a town that they'd associate strongly with Premiership rugby?
In my opinion bringing in Wasps isn't like to bring any significant benefits to the city. The kind of numbers of fans that we're talking about is hardly going to spark off any significant redevelopment, and the game at grassroots level doesn't rely on having a Premiership team on the doorstep.
There is also Gloucester and don't forget Harlequins (across the road from Twickers). New boys on the block are Exeter also.
Just putting aside the moral argument for a moment, can we consider how big a product Wasps are offering.
Currently two "franchise clubs", London Welsh and London Irish, at Oxford and Reading respectively, get what we would consider as appalling crowds for their home league fixtures 3,000 for Welsh, 6,000 odd for Irish. Other than the odd European game I can't see how much money or employment Wasps would bring to the wider economy. Rugby, much as I personally enjoy it, doesn't come close to football in terms of draw or prestige.
As an example, what's the last big European game of rugby anyone here can remember? Other than Leicester, Northampton or Bath, can anyone name a town that they'd associate strongly with Premiership rugby?
In my opinion bringing in Wasps isn't like to bring any significant benefits to the city. The kind of numbers of fans that we're talking about is hardly going to spark off any significant redevelopment, and the game at grassroots level doesn't rely on having a Premiership team on the doorstep.
And the last big European game you remember? And you call yourself a fan!
Joking aside, my point is that this isn't a game that really earns prestige or footfall (at the league level) in the same way that football can. Even a mid-table championship club at the Ricoh would attract double or treble what Wasps here will, I'd venture. Expect crowds of 3,000 - 6,000 after any initial enthusiasm has died away I'd reckon.
Putting my accountants head the real problem I have with this is how can Wasps finance it.
Turnover in 2013 6.1m and never more than 8.4m since 2002
2013 losses 3.3m 2012 2.9m 2011 2.0m 2010 3.1m...... it goes on they haven't made a profit in any year since and including 2002
2013 current liabilities exceeded current assets by 2.4m
2013 long term liabilities equalled 16.6m
2013 the balance sheet was 14m overdrawn
They are not in great financial state? Where is the finance coming from? what makes Wasps a good investment? How can they finance such a deal but we cant or wont.? Is there major funds being put in propel Wasps to the top? What about the everyday working capital where does that come from? Does it all rely on the Ricoh maintaining or improving current figures
more I look the more contradictions I seem to find. On the one hand I can see the potentials on the other the above and its a franchise from London.
We need much more detail without spin.
not being funny duffer but when was the last time CCFC showed real ambition to be a mid table Championship club? Our own crowds are nothing to shout about and I suspect fall well short of any breakeven for either the club or ACL
Putting my accountants head on the real problem I have with this is how can Wasps finance it.
Turnover in 2013 6.1m and never more than 8.4m since 2002
2013 losses 3.3m 2012 2.9m 2011 2.0m 2010 3.1m...... it goes on they haven't made a profit in any year since and including 2002
2013 current liabilities exceeded current assets by 2.4m
2013 long term liabilities equalled 16.6m
2013 the balance sheet was 14m overdrawn
They are not in great financial state Where is the finance coming from? what makes Wasps a good investment? How can they finance such a deal but we cant or wont.? Is there major funds being put in propel Wasps to the top? What about the everyday working capital where does that come from? Does it all rely on the Ricoh maintaining or improving current figures
more I look the more contradictions I seem to find. On the one hand I can see the potentials on the other the above and its a franchise from London.
We need much more detail without spin.
You've got me beat there too, although BT have signed a big deal to televise Prem Rugby... is this where Wasps money is coming from?
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/sep/12/premiership-rugby-bt-deal-broadcast
It's certainly not coming from their fans!
That's only £3.1m per team per annum. and that's if it's an equal split and the RFU aren't top slicing for lower league teams and grassroots like what happens in the PL. And agents will be looking at that pot and rubbing their hands with glee so you can bet that players wages will be increasing over the next 4 years.
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I think, but don't quote me, that there's a salary cap in Prem rugby. But I could be taking out of my backside (again). Either way, we've seen in football that TV money seems to have any number of ways of slipping through the clubs' hands and ending up in the wrong places. I doubt rugby is much better!
That's the other thing I do not get in the scenario.
I have no interest in rugby but the Chelsea's and Man Utd of rugby are Northampton and Leicester - right? Wasps seem in crowd and attractiveness a QPR. So what benefit is moving them into a catchment next to the two big teams.
Its idiotic and sure to fail. Crowds would be pathetic and how can they construct a hotel?
The council were deduced by Haskell and his delusional idea.
This has failure written all over it.
I think, but don't quote me, that there's a salary cap in Prem rugby. But I could be taking out of my backside (again). Either way, we've seen in football that TV money seems to have any number of ways of slipping through the clubs' hands and ending up in the wrong places. I doubt rugby is much better!
I could well be wrong, or missing something, but I'd tend to agree that this doesn't look great financially. Maybe that's why SISU aren't too worried - if this venture fails, what happens next to ACL? With just 10% the council will have lost control...
Just seen rosborough from coventry rugby interviewed on Sky and he didn't seem as opposed as you might expect. Was quite complimentary about wasps and their chairman Richardson so makes you wonder if he knows more about the situation or sees an opportunity for coventry to partnership with wasps.
I could well be wrong, or missing something, but I'd tend to agree that this doesn't look great financially. Maybe that's why SISU aren't too worried - if this venture fails, what happens next to ACL? With just 10% the council will have lost control...
There was another chap on the radio just after the story broke from CRFC, wasn't Rosborough, but he didn't seem too against it either. Biggest concern seemed to be that if they moved their academy up here that it was linked up to CRFC rather than any other local team.
I've been surprised, to be honest, at the response from CRFC and Wasps. I know they have smaller fanbases but compare their forums to what it was like on her when SISU moved us to Sixfields. Even compare now, there's way more posts about it here than on their own forums. Past the Wasps petition there seems to be very little activity. Surely if CRFC were against it they would have released a statement or got word out somehow.
That's why I'm a bit unsure about us protesting. Seems like we're the ones arranging that kind of thing when really it should be them sorting us and us giving our full support to them.
Just seen rosborough from coventry rugby interviewed on Sky and he didn't seem as opposed as you might expect. Was quite complimentary about wasps and their chairman Richardson so makes you wonder if he knows more about the situation or sees an opportunity for coventry to partnership with wasps.
Well, that's OK then. As long as the owners are OK with it then nothing else really matters.
Dispels some of the argument about it being the death knell for cov rugby. Getting a bit annoyed with some of the outrage from our fans - our owners have stated they don't want to buy the ricoh, Wasps need a ground to survive and seem prepared to bid. The council have a obligation to consider the bid in the interests of all coventry citizens not just the 7500 ricoh attendes and other 20000 occasional visitors.
Personally don't know why sisu aren't interested but as they aren't don't blame the council for cashing out.
Dispels some of the argument about it being the death knell for cov rugby. Getting a bit annoyed with some of the outrage from our fans - our owners have stated they don't want to buy the ricoh, Wasps need a ground to survive and seem prepared to bid. The council have a obligation to consider the bid in the interests of all coventry citizens not just the 7500 ricoh attendes and other 20000 occasional visitors.
Personally don't know why sisu aren't interested but as they aren't don't blame the council for cashing out.
Dispels some of the argument about it being the death knell for cov rugby. Getting a bit annoyed with some of the outrage from our fans - our owners have stated they don't want to buy the ricoh, Wasps need a ground to survive and seem prepared to bid. The council have a obligation to consider the bid in the interests of all coventry citizens not just the 7500 ricoh attendes and other 20000 occasional visitors.
Personally don't know why sisu aren't interested but as they aren't don't blame the council for cashing out.
Dispels some of the argument about it being the death knell for cov rugby. Getting a bit annoyed with some of the outrage from our fans - our owners have stated they don't want to buy the ricoh, Wasps need a ground to survive and seem prepared to bid. The council have a obligation to consider the bid in the interests of all coventry citizens not just the 7500 ricoh attendes and other 20000 occasional visitors.
Personally don't know why sisu aren't interested but as they aren't don't blame the council for cashing out.
So you follow exactly whatever the owners of a sports club say...?
Well, that's OK then. As long as the owners are OK with it then nothing else really matters.
There's always someone. Look at RFC.
Hypocrites keeps getting mentioned. I'd put you in that bracket. You were sticking up for sixfields and now you against a Rugby team moving to Cov. Double standards for the pro sisu lot
There is a difference between permanent and temporary, you know that, right?
Most fans thought we'd never return to Cov. The plan of Ricoh was 5 years. You seem to justify that.
Sorry but that's just rubbish.
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