Gint11
Well-Known Member
Agree 100%. Absolutely spot on.
We all want what's best for the team so I won't criticise anyone for that. But, with all due respect, I do think you lack foresight now as you did then.
We're 9th now, our results against the top 6 (albeit mainly at home) suggests we can mix it with the best in this division. So, for me, instead of getting rid of anyone we don't have to, we should be looking to build on what we have. I do agree that we need to sign more players, but I'd rather sign a few in January, to plug a hole or two and then work on really strengthening in the summer. Bayliss is not a luxury, the guy has won our last two games without playing particularly well. At 19, he's a player who will improve and become more consistent and if this club is serious about getting promoted to the Championship, we keep a hold of him unless there's an insane offer come in for him.
To provide a bit of context, we've gone from the bottom of League 1to 9th in two years with a season in L2 sandwiched in between. We had to gut the team when we got relegated and had to add a lot of quality when we got promoted despite losing our best goal scorer. The speed at which Robins has achieved this is staggering and for people suggesting we should be in the playoffs as a minimum requirement completely lack any context or foresight in my view. Playoffs in a possibility, but the more likely outcome is top half.
I have seen Willis improve substantially over the past year.I disagree strongly, as I did with the notion selling Willis last season. If I’m wrong, I do apologise, but I’m sure we had this debate around Willis and looking at where we are now, it’s fair to say that not selling Willis was undoubtedly the right choice.
You’re presenting the options as binary, whether by accident or design. It appears that you’re making the point that to get more balance in the team, we need to sell Bayliss. But, that’s not the case at this moment in time. We don’t have to rush into signing a load of players to improve the team and this is a process that can take an extra 2-4 windows.
I don’t think Westbrook showed more than Bayliss at all. Frankly, Westbrook didn’t stand out today and was pretty steady, and his blocked shot attempt was a decent effort, but that’s about it. Bayliss takes risks, and the trade off of that is making a few mistakes. There was that one occasion today where we spun out around the half way line, glided through about 2-3 players only to give the ball away, frustratingly. But, the assist for Hiwula’s goal today was top class, and handed it on a plate. Frankly, he’s won us the last two games off the back of mixed performance — put that one into perspective! We’re not going to get better quality than that and he’s only going to improve over the next 2-3 seasons.
I don’t like the way some sections of the fan base have turned on him a bit. He’s certainly had a bit of stick going his way the last 2-4 home games and it’s unwarranted. He’s not played particularly well, but who was during our bout of bad form? He’s 19 and still learning his trade, he’ll make mistakes. In my view, when people overhype players like they did with Bayliss last season, they’re going to get disappointed when they aren’t as effective in a higher league. I never liked the Maddison comparison or saying he was better than Maddison because the latter cut his teeth in L1, not L2.
Have to be prepared to lose someone we don't want to lose though.
Sold?Don't go Otis, we can't face you being sold to another forum
Edit - but if it is a choice between you and Willis, I'll give you a lift !!
Sold?
I'd have to pay a great big wodge just in order for someone to even consider taking me.
bad team performances.
Ever since he has come back into team we have played the worse football this season.
He managed to get relegated with Orient to non-league last season.
As won't have the Sterling is dreadful ones.This post hasn't aged well.
As won't have the Sterling is dreadful ones.
Same as Chaplin hasn't been that bad, nor has Bakayoko.People who tend to make rash judgements also tend to make themselves look like a tit.
There’s a difference between having a few bad performances and being a bad player or a having a bad team. A lot of people cannot differentiate the two. Even during the our bad run, some of our performances weren’t that bad.
Oh, don't go all CC4L on us, please!!Big fan of Kelly. The unsung hero of Notts county away (and probably the last 2 months of last season) said somewhere on here during our week off when the fa Cup fixtures were on, I hoped they were giving him intense fitness training to get up to speed because we needed him. Glad I was right
Same as Chaplin hasn't been that bad, nor has Bakayoko.
Earlier in the season Brown was getting a lot of flack too, as was Hiwula.
Willis' improvement is precisely why we should've kept him because he was someone who could improve as he's still relatively young and had previous in L1, and our defence was red hot in the first half of the season.
Generally speaking, us fans are prone to lack perspective and we tend to be fickle by nature. We're generally fickle because our loyalty is to the team over players or managers and we lack perspective because we only see what happens on Saturdays, not the preparation or how people perform in training. I probably come across as an enthusiastic Robins supporter, I am to an extent because his successes speak for themselves. But, don't get me wrong, if things went horribly wrong and we're in a relegation dogfight and results are terrible, it changes things. For me, I place my trust in the manager and trust he'll do the best things until that trust is broken through chronic bad results (Mowbray in 2017 and Slade). Robins is the only manager I actually have had faith in whilst I've supported Cov (Mickey Adams when we came 7th and Eric Black come close).
Always liked Kelly, a Carrick esque player which doesn’t get noticed but always works hard and wins the ball. He freed up Bayliss a lot yesterday to do what he should be doing best (mixed results obviously).
Sterling is a class above any of our current players and whilst I see no issue with fans wanting our team do better we need to be realistic about their current capabilities. Chaplin has worked hard (maybe a little too hard in trying to score). But due to injuries we cannot give him a break. Back our boys not berate them
Good postThe issue I have with the scenario you’re suggesting is that it rarely comes off. Selling your best asset in order to bring in multiple ‘good’ players rarely works IMO. Peterborough have been doing it for years and have barely come close to getting out of League One.
Plus look at us this season. We sold McNulty and whilst our league position is solid, i’d happily replace the majority of players that were brought in come the summer.
A lot of fans seem to find fault with Bayliss because they expect the world from him and like you said that is unfair but it comes with the territory unfortunately as he hasn’t been playing well.
But, isn’t that the reason why we shouldn’t sell him in jan? He’s our best asset but his stock will rise and fall based on his form. You wouldn’t sell stock at its lowest price would you. So why would you sell Bayliss at a price lower than his actual worth? Obviously we’d never accept anything less than a huge offer but realistically no club is going to offer what we want due to the reasons I’ve laid out. Regardless that’s a different topic for a different thread.
My issue is, is that taking the view of selling the likes of Willis/Bayliss to bring in ‘better’ or more ‘good’ players is completely oversimplifying the work and effort that goes into recruitment. It’s simply not as easy as that so it’s a pretty huge risk. E.g. selling McNulty and ending up with two pretty poor strikers and an OK one. Hence, why I’ve always taken issue with Peterborough’s model as from a footballing perspective it’s crap.
You speak very well and rational when you make your points which I applaud. It’s good to have a constructive debate and exchange opinions without personal insults that get floated about to easy on here. A good few can debate and have differing opinions in a healthy way.
I too trust in MR, he’s shown enough to me to think he will make the right decision on if stick or twist on players to make the side better or wheel and deal if he feels he needs it.
Not every signing will work or hit the ground running, we all need to be realistic of the level of players. I might not sound like I’m patient in allowing him to build a side but that’s far from the truth and I think you and others have read enough of my posts over the years to see I’m reasoned and not afraid to talk about the unthinkable sales of some.
One things for sure we all want the same, a thriving ccfc side preferably blessed with local players and seeing our talents play at the highest level with or without us or funding that rise once again.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I also have faith in Robins, which is why I failed to join in all the 'we are in crisis' panic.You speak very well and rational when you make your points which I applaud. It’s good to have a constructive debate and exchange opinions without personal insults that get floated about to easy on here. A good few can debate and have differing opinions in a healthy way.
I too trust in MR, he’s shown enough to me to think he will make the right decision on if stick or twist on players to make the side better or wheel and deal if he feels he needs it.
Not every signing will work or hit the ground running, we all need to be realistic of the level of players. I might not sound like I’m patient in allowing him to build a side but that’s far from the truth and I think you and others have read enough of my posts over the years to see I’m reasoned and not afraid to talk about the unthinkable sales of some.
One things for sure we all want the same, a thriving ccfc side preferably blessed with local players and seeing our talents play at the highest level with or without us or funding that rise once again.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Couldn’t agree more. Mistakes are bound to be made in any season and by any manager. Transfers seem particularly difficult to get right, especially if you’re going after players with potential as opposed to being the finished article.I also have faith in Robins, which is why I failed to join in all the 'we are in crisis' panic.
All managers make mistakes. Sometimes you just have to look at the bigger picture.
Thank you! We all want what's best for the club and all have different opinions on how to get there, that's the point of a forum! I try to make my points as best as I can, even if they're not right all the time.
I don't feel like there's a manager out there who's a better fit than Robins at this moment in time. He's not the perfect manager, there are things that he does, or doesn't do rather that I'd do differently if I were the manager, but, he's the one getting paid for it and we always have the benefit of hindsight when things go badly. Right now, he's generally got things right and we're doing well in 9th place with two winnable games ahead of us. So, for me, it's about backing the manager and viewing this team as a project. It's got plenty of youthful players who'll improve, it needs probably about 4-6, possibly more players to really compete next season.
This isn't by any means a direct comparison, but Portsmouth lost 20 games last season, finishing 8th and we're in a similar situation this season. So, I'd say we've got the foundations roughly right at the minute. Chaplin needs to find his groove and hopefully strikes a good partnership with Hiwula.
I also have faith in Robins, which is why I failed to join in all the 'we are in crisis' panic.
All managers make mistakes. Sometimes you just have to look at the bigger picture.
There is a corresponding downward drift from people thought highly of at the start - Andreu then Chaplin and JCH are all well down on their original player ratings - figures to follow when I can get the timeSame as Chaplin hasn't been that bad, nor has Bakayoko.
Earlier in the season Brown was getting a lot of flack too, as was Hiwula.
He’s our best asset but his stock will rise and fall based on his form. You wouldn’t sell stock at its lowest price would you.
But then, the expectancy of Chaplin was far too high from a large number of fans.There is a corresponding downward drift from people thought highly of at the start - Andreu then Chaplin and JCH are all well down on their original player ratings - figures to follow when I can get the time
I think during the run of bad games people just wanted him to play in a style far to expansive for what MR will ever play, he’s closer to Jose than Klopp so it goes against him as negative but that’s his way and it’s a sensible way for L1 with players we have learning here.
His interviews generally reflect on what I’ve seen and thought too, tho if I was to throw another spanner in the works I’d prefer Steve Taylor back to partner him than Adi Viveash.
Anyway, my only grip will be if he don’t address the wide players situation this January and permanently in the summer.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?