Liberation day (6 Viewers)

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Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
The tariff on cars is an odd one, given that even if cars are manufactured in the US they still often need parts from other countries.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The tariff on cars is an odd one, given that even if cars are manufactured in the US they still often need parts from other countries.
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Cars and car parts tend to be taxed differently at the border.

The rationale for the tariffs policy is to address uneven trade balances the US has with protectionist markets (e.g. the EU) and to bring some manufacturing back to the US. There’s some sound thinking here but it’s going too far as to alienate the world economy.

My view is that it’s going to backfire because Trump has this romantic vision of a bygone era that’s no longer a reality. It’ll drive up inflation, make US businesses potentially less competitive and import taxes are a tax on your own population.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Cars and car parts tend to be taxed differently at the border.

The rationale for the tariffs policy is to address uneven trade balances the US has with protectionist markets (e.g. the EU) and to bring some manufacturing back to the US. There’s some sound thinking here but it’s going too far as to alienate the world economy.

My view is that it’s going to backfire because Trump has this romantic vision of a bygone era that’s no longer a reality. It’ll drive up inflation, make US businesses potentially less competitive and import taxes are a tax on your own population.
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Of course it's going to backfire. If this was a great thing to do economically then everyone would already be doing it. Even the likes of China with a huge internal market rely heavily on exports.

If his plan is to get companies (including non U.S. companies) to set up manufacturing in the U.S. then again it would be tit-for-tat and other countries would demand U.S. manufactured goods are made in their country. But then he probably doesn't get that, just like he seemed genuinely surprised and angry when those countries he had placed tariffs on placed tariffs on U.S. goods, calling them 'nasty' when he's the reason they did it.

And about car parts etc. Countries could easily choose to put tariffs on the parts to the U.S. instead.

He's a privileged idiot who isn't used to people not doing what he wants.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Of course it's going to backfire. If this was a great thing to do economically then everyone would already be doing it. Even the likes of China with a huge internal market rely heavily on exports.

If his plan is to get companies (including non U.S. companies) to set up manufacturing in the U.S. then again it would be tit-for-tat and other countries would demand U.S. manufactured goods are made in their country. But then he probably doesn't get that, just like he seemed genuinely surprised and angry when those countries he had placed tariffs on placed tariffs on U.S. goods, calling them 'nasty' when he's the reason they did it.

And about car parts etc. Countries could easily choose to put tariffs on the parts to the U.S. instead.

He's a privileged idiot who isn't used to people not doing what he wants.
Click to expand...

China, India and the EU have markets that are significantly more closed than the US.

It’s strange to see how in favour people of the left are now making the argument for free trade now that Trump is going against it… 😂

The US automobile manufacturers uprooting jobs from the US, outsourcing those jobs to Mexico who then supply the same products duty free should be opposed by anyone left-leaning.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
China, India and the EU have markets that are significantly more closed than the US.

It’s strange to see how in favour people of the left are now making the argument for free trade now that Trump is going against it… 😂

The US automobile manufacturers uprooting jobs from the US, outsourcing those jobs to Mexico who then supply the same products duty free should be opposed by anyone left-leaning.
Click to expand...
Its not really about being for or against the free market. I would say the vast majority of people who agree with the end result with be very much against the way Trump is trying to achieve it.

What benefit is it to anyone if he tanks economies world wide and makes everything more expensive for Americans? There were several experts on the news this morning lining up to say that there's not a single car made in America that will meet Trumps requirements to be tariff free. And there's little chance of that changing any time soon as you can't make changes like that overnight.

Even Trump has admitted to this but has said he doesn't care if prices for the consumer increase.
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
China, India and the EU have markets that are significantly more closed than the US.

It’s strange to see how in favour people of the left are now making the argument for free trade now that Trump is going against it… 😂

The US automobile manufacturers uprooting jobs from the US, outsourcing those jobs to Mexico who then supply the same products duty free should be opposed by anyone left-leaning.
Click to expand...
It’s wider than free or not and open or closed markets
Or even left and right wing politics
For me I consider myself centre left in terms of politics globalisation free trade requires agreed checks and balances and the thing I’m offended by with trump is not his desire for companies to make things in the USA to sell in the USA it’s that he wants all the benefits with none of the costs
And fundamentally he’s greeedy and is on the side of the greedy who want to exploit everything countries raw materials the planet to be richer and more powerful
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete said:
It’s wider than free or not and open or closed markets
Or even left and right wing politics
For me I consider myself centre left in terms of politics globalisation free trade requires agreed checks and balances and the thing I’m offended by with trump is not his desire for companies to make things in the USA to sell in the USA it’s that he wants all the benefits with none of the costs
And fundamentally he’s greeedy and is on the side of the greedy who want to exploit everything countries raw materials the planet to be richer and more powerful
Click to expand...

What do you mean by that Pete?

Pre-Liberation Day, the EU imposes much harsher tariffs on US origin goods than vice versa. Same with India, Brazil and China. In fact, the US had the lowest average duty rate among the major global economies (China, Korea Republic, EU, Japan, UK, Brazil and Mexico).

The US companies face much harsher import levies to many markets, particularly in areas of food stuffs and automobile industries (there’s more).

A few quick examples:
EU imposes 10% duty on US cars, versus 2.5% US reciprocal levy.
India had a 100% duty on US motorcycles (reduced recently) v 2.4% US duty on Indian goods.
EU levies 24% on fruit spreads from the US.

Is it fundamentally unfair that a country seeks to even the playing field?

It’s a bold strategy and arguably too aggressive to achieve its stated aims. We’ll wait and see.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
What do you mean by that Pete?

Pre-Liberation Day, the EU imposes much harsher tariffs on US origin goods than vice versa. Same with India, Brazil and China. In fact, the US had the lowest average duty rate among the major global economies (China, Korea Republic, EU, Japan, UK, Brazil and Mexico).

The US companies face much harsher import levies to many markets, particularly in areas of food stuffs and automobile industries (there’s more).

A few quick examples:
EU imposes 10% duty on US cars, versus 2.5% US reciprocal levy.
India had a 100% duty on US motorcycles (reduced recently) v 2.4% US duty on Indian goods.
EU levies 24% on fruit spreads from the US.

Is it fundamentally unfair that a country seeks to even the playing field?

It’s a bold strategy and arguably too aggressive to achieve its stated aims. We’ll wait and see.
Click to expand...
Trump wants to restore the US to a system where nobody is taxed and the government income is primarily from tariffs. That was before any semblance of a welfare state.

19th century economic policy in a 21st century world that will benefit the robber barons and few others.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
China, India and the EU have markets that are significantly more closed than the US.

It’s strange to see how in favour people of the left are now making the argument for free trade now that Trump is going against it… 😂

The US automobile manufacturers uprooting jobs from the US, outsourcing those jobs to Mexico who then supply the same products duty free should be opposed by anyone left-leaning.
Click to expand...
I've not been against free trade. I'm not some militant trade unionist wanting jobs to be kept in this country at all costs.

I've not been happy with the China situation regarding our imports, given how much they ignore IPR and also the human rights regarding their workers. India is increasingly getting like that. But I know slapping tariffs on those isn't going to bring about the change needed.

It's a stupid thing to do. Even Liz Truss wasn't mad enough to do that!
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
What do you mean by that Pete?

Pre-Liberation Day, the EU imposes much harsher tariffs on US origin goods than vice versa. Same with India, Brazil and China. In fact, the US had the lowest average duty rate among the major global economies (China, Korea Republic, EU, Japan, UK, Brazil and Mexico).

The US companies face much harsher import levies to many markets, particularly in areas of food stuffs and automobile industries (there’s more).

A few quick examples:
EU imposes 10% duty on US cars, versus 2.5% US reciprocal levy.
India had a 100% duty on US motorcycles (reduced recently) v 2.4% US duty on Indian goods.
EU levies 24% on fruit spreads from the US.

Is it fundamentally unfair that a country seeks to even the playing field?

It’s a bold strategy and arguably too aggressive to achieve its stated aims. We’ll wait and see.
Click to expand...

The US imposes a 25% on light trucks and vans etc versus the 10% reciprocal.
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
What do you mean by that Pete?

Pre-Liberation Day, the EU imposes much harsher tariffs on US origin goods than vice versa. Same with India, Brazil and China. In fact, the US had the lowest average duty rate among the major global economies (China, Korea Republic, EU, Japan, UK, Brazil and Mexico).

The US companies face much harsher import levies to many markets, particularly in areas of food stuffs and automobile industries (there’s more).

A few quick examples:
EU imposes 10% duty on US cars, versus 2.5% US reciprocal levy.
India had a 100% duty on US motorcycles (reduced recently) v 2.4% US duty on Indian goods.
EU levies 24% on fruit spreads from the US.

Is it fundamentally unfair that a country seeks to even the playing field?

It’s a bold strategy and arguably too aggressive to achieve its stated aims. We’ll wait and see.
Click to expand...
I mean it’s wider than that
Fundamentally we live in a global world of deep deep inequality and those with the most money and power need to do more than those without

Inequality normally brings down empires and I expect the same in our era as before
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Trump wants to restore the US to a system where nobody is taxed and the government income is primarily from tariffs. That was before any semblance of a welfare state.

19th century economic policy in a 21st century world that will benefit the robber barons and few others.
Click to expand...

I’d be surprised if that’s under serious consideration. It’s a pipe dream and nothing more of the American Right.

The stated aims Trump has outlined is:
- bring manufacturing jobs to America
- trade equalisation / revenge
- lowering tariffs

It’s a bit all over the place but given that the US and UK have some of the most liberal MFN regimes globally, there’s a certain rationale to aggressively force a change to that current state of affairs.

After all, the traditional diplomatic means have failed in getting China to engage in free and fair trade and opening up the EU and India’s protectionist tendencies.

I’m interested to see how it all pans out, if there’s an economy that can throw its weight around to this extent, it’s the USA.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
I’d be surprised if that’s under serious consideration. It’s a pipe dream and nothing more of the American Right.

The stated aims Trump has outlined is:
- bring manufacturing jobs to America
- trade equalisation / revenge
- lowering tariffs

It’s a bit all over the place but given that the US and UK have some of the most liberal MFN regimes globally, there’s a certain rationale to aggressively force a change to that current state of affairs.

After all, the traditional diplomatic means have failed in getting China to engage in free and fair trade and opening up the EU and India’s protectionist tendencies.

I’m interested to see how it all pans out, if there’s an economy that can throw its weight around to this extent, it’s the USA.
Click to expand...
Joe Biden did bring manufacturing jobs to the states-around 150,000 of which Trump cancelled out of spite.
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
I’d be surprised if that’s under serious consideration. It’s a pipe dream and nothing more of the American Right.

The stated aims Trump has outlined is:
- bring manufacturing jobs to America
- trade equalisation / revenge
- lowering tariffs

It’s a bit all over the place but given that the US and UK have some of the most liberal MFN regimes globally, there’s a certain rationale to aggressively force a change to that current state of affairs.

After all, the traditional diplomatic means have failed in getting China to engage in free and fair trade and opening up the EU and India’s protectionist tendencies.

I’m interested to see how it all pans out, if there’s an economy that can throw its weight around to this extent, it’s the USA.
Click to expand...
Then it’s the end justifying the means and I think the end is about personal greed and power and not righting the process
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
The US imposes a 25% on light trucks and vans etc versus the 10% reciprocal.
Click to expand...

As part of the new measures, yes. Pre-Liberation Day that figure was one tenth of that.

Sky Blue Pete said:
Then it’s the end justifying the means and I think the end is about personal greed and power and not righting the process
Click to expand...

Does this sentiment apply to the EU and Indiawho imposes high tariffs?
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Trump wants to restore the US to a system where nobody is taxed and the government income is primarily from tariffs. That was before any semblance of a welfare state.

19th century economic policy in a 21st century world that will benefit the robber barons and few others.
Click to expand...
Yes I actually think we should switch off all reliance on the World, Byyyeeee!
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
PVA said:
The US imposes a 25% on light trucks and vans etc versus the 10% reciprocal.
Click to expand...
I’m sure I read before that overall tariffs between the EU and USA are more less equal and actually very low. It’s obvious that this isn’t what it’s about though.
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
I’m sure I read before that overall tariffs between the EU and USA are more less equal and actually very low. It’s obvious that this isn’t what it’s about though.
Click to expand...
They are about 3% trump says they’re 39% but seems to be basing calculations on trade deficit rather than tarriff
 
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