cc84cov
Well-Known Member
I’ve forgot which prediction is your latest
Stay up or going down ?
Which one is it today
I’d still rather Gnandillet than Gyo
Loan Watch (17 Viewers)
- Thread starter SlowerThanPlatt
- Start date
Stay up or going down ?
Which one is it today
I’d still rather Gnandillet than Gyo
MusicDating
Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
I know a guy who worked for a company that provided Leicester with all the analytics on players and he said that Maddison was one that he'd produced a report on. I asked him why he didn't go to one of the top 6 from Norwich and he simply replied 'consistency'.Spot on
As mentioned previously it's how all top clubs operate.
We have Badlan, Benthom & (I believe 5) full time scouts working under them.
We use a combination of Technical Scouting & Traditional Scouting. Every single player is thoroughly scouted (over years usually), will be watched in person multiple times & we regularly contact coaches a player has previously worked with for character references etc. A lot of the time after receiving a recommendation Robins will also want to watch the player personally too.
Of course, most clubs are now moving in this direction but we've been a little ahead of the curve & with Badlan previously being European Scout at bigger clubs he has sizeable knowledge, databases & contacts, this enables us to unearth raw potential or undervalued talent etc.
Anyone expecting us to sign the finished article to immediately be a top Championship player though will be disappointed. If they are already at that level they will be targets for bigger clubs & be out of our budget.
Obviously most bigger clubs have significantly larger scouting budgets than us & will have analysts or scouts covering every league imaginable whereas we will focus on probably 6-8 leagues around the world. This is going to have to change somewhat with the new Brexit rules & I feel we may have to discount some of the leagues we've previously looked in & expand into areas like South America etc. instead.This makes things even more difficult as skillsets don't usually transfer so easily as well as the huge changes in culture in moving continent.
The utter tripe about the recruitment team deserve no credit for the likes of Hamer etc. because they're 'Known' is plainly daft. Badlan has had Hamer on his radar for over 5 years. If he was that well known bigger clubs would have already snapped him up.
We'll be signing players that have the raw ability and the plan is that we can develop them into better, more consistent players. Some work out, some fail.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Exactly & our record since Robins returned & the new structure has been in place has been exceptional, it's one of the main reasons we are where we are now.
D
Deleted member 11652
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The issue with signings like Kastaneer and Hilssner is that they weren’t ripping up trees in Europe. Kastaneer was useless for NAC Breda (I think?) and their fans told us exactly that when he joined us. Hilssner was playing third tier of Germany after an ACL. What exactly did our scouting team see in them?
The reason a big team didn’t come in for Hamer is because he isn’t good enough for a big team so I’m not sure why that has been said. He’s totally different to the aforementioned 2 due to the fee spent and the fact that most of these football analytics pages had heard of him so he wasn’t exactly a hard find.
Dabo we knew all about as he’d played for Chelsea and Swindon anyway. Jobello may have worked out if not for injury so who knows on that. Da Costa doesn’t seem to be the greatest signing either.
Badlan can say he’s watched players for years all he wants and I don’t doubt that he has. He also said Kastaneer was a coup for league 1 so maybe his word shouldn’t be gospel. My issue is with how much had Robins watched them and what exactly he saw to think yeah great sign them.
Gyokeres had played in the same team as Ostigard and for Swansea so what did Robins see on the tapes that made him think he was better than Biamou, just to then watch him in training and decide he isn’t? It’s baffling.
I can forgive dud signings like Ogogo and junior Brown as on paper they looked good but didn’t work out for whatever reason. It’s the ones like Kastaneer where we get told exactly what the player is like by the people who have watched him regularly and it comes true. If it was a cheap punt then great but I highly doubt it given Badlan’s comments and the length of his contract!
I dunno why @cc84cov is piping up he said the Kastaneer signing was that good it convinced him to get a season ticket.
The reason a big team didn’t come in for Hamer is because he isn’t good enough for a big team so I’m not sure why that has been said. He’s totally different to the aforementioned 2 due to the fee spent and the fact that most of these football analytics pages had heard of him so he wasn’t exactly a hard find.
Dabo we knew all about as he’d played for Chelsea and Swindon anyway. Jobello may have worked out if not for injury so who knows on that. Da Costa doesn’t seem to be the greatest signing either.
Badlan can say he’s watched players for years all he wants and I don’t doubt that he has. He also said Kastaneer was a coup for league 1 so maybe his word shouldn’t be gospel. My issue is with how much had Robins watched them and what exactly he saw to think yeah great sign them.
Gyokeres had played in the same team as Ostigard and for Swansea so what did Robins see on the tapes that made him think he was better than Biamou, just to then watch him in training and decide he isn’t? It’s baffling.
I can forgive dud signings like Ogogo and junior Brown as on paper they looked good but didn’t work out for whatever reason. It’s the ones like Kastaneer where we get told exactly what the player is like by the people who have watched him regularly and it comes true. If it was a cheap punt then great but I highly doubt it given Badlan’s comments and the length of his contract!
I dunno why @cc84cov is piping up he said the Kastaneer signing was that good it convinced him to get a season ticket.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Every time this thread come up for a split second I think it says Liam Walsh and get excited
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
cc84cov
Well-Known Member
ccfc1234
Well-Known Member
He was recruited from the continent. The same as Jobello 'ffs'
ccfc1234
Well-Known Member
If you can provide proof that suggests you know better and 'We don't operate like that' I would be happy to stand corrected. A family member I have is very close to an agent who regularly deals with Newcastle United transfers and says it's common practice for clubs to take a punt on players based on a money ball approach (data driven) approach to signings.
You are free to assert we sent scouts to watch Kastaneer live 3 or 4 times before we signed him. But I would personally very much doubt it.
ccfc1234
Well-Known Member
Your entitled to that view but you realise some of the biggest managers in the game have admitted signing players based of video highlights. There are also platforms like Wyscout that cater for the money ball approach to scouting.
As I said in another thread I know from a family contact clubs take data driven punts on players below a specific value.
I suspect the scouting networks clubs at League one level relay on, might be smaller than you think they are. If you actually think we did watch Kastaneer 3 or 4 times live what do you think of Baldens ability given he talked him up as a coup signing??????
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Hobo
Well-Known Member
Sunday League Under 7's - is that the Under 7 Foot League?
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Read any of the interviews with Badlan.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
He joined us from Chelsea
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Budget wise in the transfer market we hardly have a pot to piss in.
So the scouting budget will be a fraction of that. It is going to be internet subs and youtube surfing.
ccfc1234
Well-Known Member
Your right but wrong as this topic is about scouting. He was registered to Chelsea but he hadn't kicked a ball professionally in England for 2 seasons when he joined us. We signed him based on his form in European leagues. Or maybe your right and we signed him based on his off season kick abouts on the beach or Hackney Marshes
.
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ccfc1234
Well-Known Member
Agree 100%. perhaps not YouTube but there are plenty of data driven platforms that are exponentially growing due to this approach to signings facilitated by technological advancements.
cc84cov
Well-Known Member
My point is based on Badlan and his European targets
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
They're taking a gamble aren't they? If we were talking about big money transfers consistently being duds that would be one thing but we're taking a diamond in the rough approach trying to find players in our price range who outperform their price tag.
What's the hit rate for other teams?
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Your right but wrong as this topic is about scouting. He was registered to Chelsea but he hadn't kicked a ball professionally in England for 2 seasons when he joined us. We signed him based on his form in European leagues. Or maybe your right and we signed him based on his off season kick abouts on the beach or Hackney Marshes
He was identified by Viveash due to his Chelsea connections, not due to European scouts. He just then happened to be on loan at a European league when we had a look at him.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
I don't know why I'm bothering as you obviously don't understand & will twist whatever to suit your agenda but...
So, Hamer + a few cheaper options we identified...
Jobello = Signed for League One, was doing ok, played a (small) part in helping us get promoted.
Dacosta = Signed for nothing, regular in a Championship squad.
Hilßner = Signed for a small fee. Fitness issues mean we haven't really seen him yet.
Kastaneer = 100% flop
You'd also technically have to include Østigård as he'd not played in England before & we signed him based on his performances in Europe. He obviously also followed Dabo's performances in Europe too.
Rose is an obvious hit so no doubt you'll want to exclude Scotland for that reason.
Even if you consider them all to be flops (which you no doubt will), simply the sale of Hamer would cover the cost of all of them multiple times over.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Viveash played a part in Dabo choosing us & obviously his insight helped but Badlan had been tracking him since Chelsea youth team anyway. Bear in mind Viveash had never seen him play a senior game at any level.
See post #391
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Scottish first division sub??? MmmmI’ve forgot which prediction is your latest
Stay up or going down ?
Which one is it today
I’d still rather Gnandillet than Gyo
Blind-Faith
Well-Known Member
So Drysdales doing well then???
cc84cov
Well-Known Member
So bar Hamer who we paid £1.2m for the rest were a waste of time
larry_david
Well-Known Member
Loan watch has taken off today!!
ccfc1234
Well-Known Member
Who do you think had a look at him then if it wasn't our scouts covering Europe? I agree Vivash and his connections to Chelsea no doubt gave us the initial insight.
ccfc1234
Well-Known Member
I was not initially being critical of Balden but I definatily do feel there is a bit of undeserved hype from some around his scouting abilities. So every one can assess his player spotting talents I have found this on soccerbase to a lot of our signings since Balden became head of recruitment in 2018, sorry it seems to miss off the likes of Jordan Thompson and Morgan Williams (who both seem destined for new clubs). If anyone has a better list please share. It gives a picture of the volume anyway.
Probably worth noting some of the signings like Allen and McFaz were wanted by Robins.
'He shouldn't be in L1' - Lowdown on new Sky Blue signing
Head of recruitment Chris Badlan reveals all about Coventry City's eighth senior signing
Players in
| PLAYER | FROM | FEE | DATE |
|---|---|---|---|
| Bouwe Bosma | Eastbourne | Unknown | 01 Jul, 2018 |
| Jonson Clarke-Harris | Rotherham | Undisc. | 01 Jul, 2018 |
| Junior Brown | Shrewsbury | Free | 01 Jul, 2018 |
| Abu Ogogo | Shrewsbury | Free | 01 Jul, 2018 |
| Reise Allassani | Dulwich H | Undisc. | 01 Jul, 2018 |
| Brandon Mason | Watford | Free | 06 Jul, 2018 |
| Jordy Hiwula | Huddersfield | Undisc. | 02 Aug, 2018 |
| Dexter Walters | Tamworth | Undisc. | 03 Aug, 2018 |
| Amadou Bakayoko | Walsall | Unknown | 07 Aug, 2018 |
| Conor Chaplin | Portsmouth | Undisc. | 04 Jan, 2019 |
| Charlie Wakefield | Chelsea U23 | Free | 31 Jan, 2019 |
| Marko Marosi | Doncaster | Free | 22 May, 2019 |
| Ben Wilson | Bradford | Free | 23 May, 2019 |
| Fankaty Dabo | Chelsea U21 | Free | 05 Jun, 2019 |
| Wesley Jobello | GFC Ajaccio | Undisc. | 14 Jun, 2019 |
| Declan Drysdale | Tranmere | Undisc. | 1 May 2019 |
| Gervane Kastaneer | NAC Breda | Undisc. | 20 Jun, 2019 |
| Jamie Allen | Burton | Undisc. | 28 Jun, 2019 |
| Michael Rose | Ayr | Free | 01 Jul, 2019 |
| Kyle McFadzean | Burton | Free | 01 Jul, 2019 |
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Frostie
Well-Known Member
If you are genuinely interested in scouting/recruitment, have a read through some of the well known analysts work like MRKT Insights & listen to their podcasts etc. they frequently hail our recruitment team as one of the best around.
Here's Michael Rose's agent talking about Badlan:
And then there's Mark Robins (you know the guy he actually recruits for) who name drops him in plenty of national press interviews saying what a great job he does.
"The way things are set up is brilliant.” Robins said. Chris Badlan does a great job"
PRESS WATCH: Mark Robins Speaks With BBC Coventry & Warwickshire
Sky Blues boss, Mark Robins spoke with BBC Coventry & Warwickshire’s Phil Upton yesterday morning, as he reflected on the latest additions to his side and future transfer plans.
www.ccfc.co.uk
I'm sure all these people actually involved in football are just overhyping him though & you, who can't even spell his name correctly, know better about the job he does.
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Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
victim of the success we’ve had. Some current players were hired to get us out of league 1 not complete in championship
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I'm buying that good signings are down to Robins, bad signings down to Badlan!
Even looking at that list, which seems to miss a lot of players (Godden, McCallum, O'Hare, Walker, Hamer etc), the sale of McCallum, JCH and Chaplin probably covers a good chunk, if not all, of the cost of the 'failures'. Isn't that a sign of our system working?
That's a cracking point
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Not just L1, Kelly, Shipley, Hyam and Biamou all played a big chunk of games in our L2 season, Jones as well but obviously he's been injured.
That's what they mean when they say we got here earlier than expected
ccfc1234
Well-Known Member
If you are genuinely interested in scouting/recruitment, have a read through some of the well known analysts work like MRKT Insights & listen to their podcasts etc. they frequently hail our recruitment team as one of the best around.
Here's Michael Rose's agent talking about Badlan:
And then there's Mark Robins (you know the guy he actually recruits for) who name drops him in plenty of national press interviews saying what a great job he does.
"The way things are set up is brilliant.” Robins said. Chris Badlan does a great job"
PRESS WATCH: Mark Robins Speaks With BBC Coventry & Warwickshire
Sky Blues boss, Mark Robins spoke with BBC Coventry & Warwickshire’s Phil Upton yesterday morning, as he reflected on the latest additions to his side and future transfer plans.
I'm sure all these people actually involved in football are just overhyping him though & you, who can't even spell his name correctly, know better about the job he does.
Frostie, I don't doubt that the club have been given some praise. I guess very important details like what has been said and by whom, matters and based on your post is unknown. Given you have invoked a "the people in the know think he is great vs silly me from the stands knows nothing" type argument. Please recall and preferablely link to some of the numerous eulogies people have given Badlan and the CCFC set up in podcasts so we can at least review the substance and validity to your claims.
Your link to the agent of Rose praising Badlan!! Have a think and see if you can come up with any reasons a football Agent might have a vested interest in his praising the abilities of a recruitment manager like Badlan!! Who lets not forget has already put money directly in his pocket by signing one if his players!!
Like you, I have heard Robins praise Badlan a few times and thank you for linking to a supporting story where he has. I would hope sure your smart enough to appriciate the possibility of sub texts being used, and that Robins words of praise could be for more than one reason.
Granted it could be the one dimentional comment you clearly believe it to be, and that Robins just thinks Badlan is just an phenomenally impressive lead scout. But perhaps the is another factor at play and Robins like all managers wants be able to sign players and is trying to give Joy etc confidence in the recruitment team so she has confidence and sanctions more spending?
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