Otis
Well-Known Member
Until Thatcher came to prominence I actually thought that was a wine.
Until Thatcher came to prominence I actually thought that was a wine.Loved Pinochet.
Until Thatcher came to prominence I actually thought that was a wine.
Oh dear. I was hoping you would prove me wrong. Never mind.I have and I’m well educated in the unedifying Irish murderers who call themselves an army
Go back to your Bobby Sands poster
Grendel never proves anyone wrong, he only proves himself right.Oh dear. I was hoping you would prove me wrong. Never mind.
Oh dear. I was hoping you would prove me wrong. Never mind.
Like I said. You need to educate yourself. A trip to Kilmainham Gaol would do you good. I am happy to recommend some academic texts on Irish history if you wish, just drop me a pm.Considering if you believe one of the theories that one of the gruesome foursome you mentioned was implicit in executing another I’m surprised you mentioned them all to be honest
As for “proving you wrong” you’ve clearly accepted that the at the time unique policy of killing and more to the point assassinating non political civilians is a justifiable response to the pursuit of nationalism
There is no argument this was the policy that the IRA indulged in under Collins authority
We can all argue the rights and wrongs of Maxwell and his response to the Easter rising but the suggestion that Collins didn’t then follow a strategy of terror on innocent civilians shows an interesting side of you
It’s amusing in a way Collins was almost certainly killed in the end by his own as he was seen as looking at diplomatic solutions. Don’t tell me that was the IRA that killed him it was the Real or Dissident one as if cheap branding gives it divergence
As Lyra McKee found out nothing really changes does it?
You don't know the first thing about me mate - and you certainly know nothing about Irish history.
So were Manarchin Begin and Madela also terrorists (from my original post), or is your bile reserved only for the Irish?
My answer was that you clearly know nothing about Irish history. Like I said, feel free to pm me for some balanced academic texts.No answers to any of my points I see
Grendel never proves anyone wrong, he only proves himself right.
The only thing Grendel proves is that baby boomers could make a living without any discernible intelligence or ability.
My answer was that you clearly know nothing about Irish history. Like I said, feel free to pm me for some balanced academic texts.
Begin and Mandela?
I will leave it there as it’s pointless trying to discuss anything with you.
you come across as a an attention seeking obnoxious fool, with a misplaced superiority complex.
one last thought - and apologies for the personal question, but you remind a little of my older brother (at his worst). He was diagnosed with Aspergers a couple of years back and is now a far happier and balanced person now he has treatment.
You quote Trump and now Piers Morgan in the Daily Mail..... for god sake do some proper research and keep your mind open til then. Failing that I'd highly recommend going to uni to broaden your horizons.Do people who hack dead school girls phone's change their spots?
FFS its the 21st Century man!There is no solution. I don't want to hug a terrorist who blows up children in Manchester etc. I want them to die a very slow and painful death. Sorry but they deserve nothing less.
He didn’t even realise that the GFA is more than one agreement. He seriously thought that an arrangement that brought one of the most complicated periods in British/Irish history to a close was a one page brief on the government’s website.Like I said. You need to educate yourself. A trip to Kilmainham Gaol would do you good. I am happy to recommend some academic texts on Irish history if you wish, just drop me a pm.
He didn’t even realise that the GFA is more than one agreement. He seriously thought that an arrangement that brought one of the most complicated periods in British/Irish history to a close was a one page brief on the government’s website.
Which IRA are you talking about? You do know there’s been more than one?Hello Tony the death of the aforementioned journalist shows it’s not closed
I’m interested to see you think the IRA is a freedom fighting movement and not a terrorist group which of course is exactly what this discussion is really about
I guess some people could say Britain First is as well if that’s the way they think
It’s you that failed to comprehend the GFA (so called) is actually an opportunity for Irish unity if it so wished
Are the IRA a terrorist movement as this is essentially this rather tired and dull argument - I say yes Monners believes not
The Irish War by Tony Geraghty is a great read and gives lots of time to explaining the history all the way back to the battle of the Boyne.A Star Called Henry by Roddy Doyle. Have a read and get back to me. I used to be one of those 'no surrender' idiots too. The Irish stuff is certainly not black and white.
Which IRA are you talking about? You do know there’s been more than one?
A Star Called Henry by Roddy Doyle. Have a read and get back to me. I used to be one of those 'no surrender' idiots too. The Irish stuff is certainly not black and white.
Depends on your point of view doesn’t it. One man’s terrorist will always be another man’s freedom fighter but to take a balanced view you need to know the history to understand the mindset and you clearly don’t. Ireland was caught in the crosshairs of an English war between two opposing kings of England neither of who were English or Irish. It starts from there and gets even more complicated. You’re looking for a black and white answer from a question that is far from black and white. The fact that you’re asking for answers in that form just confirms how little you know about it.Well thanks for telling me so which ones are in your view terrorists and which are freedom fighters
Depends on your point of view doesn’t it. One man’s terrorist will always be another man’s freedom fighter but to take a balanced view you need to know the history to understand the mindset and you clearly don’t. Ireland was caught in the crosshairs of an English war between two opposing kings of England neither of who were English or Irish. It starts from there and gets even more complicated. You’re looking for a black and white answer from a question that is far from black and white. The fact that you’re asking for answers in that form just confirms how little you know about it.
Thanks for telling me what I think. You’re wrong as usual but thanks anyway.Well no I asked your opinion and you refuse to equate an answer. You dodge it and shroud your argument in bluster
You can decide if the desire for nationalism is worthy of violence ace destruction if civilian life if you wish. I would then assume if Scotland were denied it’s yet another vote on independence it decided to be a real ISA and blow up some children in Warrington you would find this acceptable - or perhaps you wouldn’t - as ultimately you find it difficult to construct any opinion at all
What I find amusing about the foursome Monners listed is that one was executed by one of the others and the one that survived several years later dragged opponents to his own self made internment camps
you are the big Irish historian so I’m sure you get the irony
There you go again. Thinking it’s black and white. For starters you have to acknowledge that more IRA men died fighting with the British Army in two world wars than died fighting the Republican cause against the British last century. If you widen that to catholic Irish men then more catholic Irish men died fighting with the British army in two world wars than in the entire history of the Republican cause. The IRA was traditionally a broad church up until the provisional IRA and many many Irish Republicans never had an issue fighting the Nazis as members of the British Army. And you won’t find that on your favourite source of wiki, you will have to read some actual factual history books on Ireland to know that.Also Tony if we are really discussing the IRA and it’s radicalism perhaps we can discuss it’s known links and alliance with Nazi Germany - thoughts?
Mandella is a dumb comparison - and significantly he gained traction through political alliance in the end not by bombing the fuck out of everyone
Although this isn't an issue I want to get involved in, surely you can use the same argument that in Ireland traction was eventually gained through political alliance not by bombing? But because they've made that transition does it excuse what they've done in the past? And if not why does it for Mandela?
I always wonder in these discussions what people would feel if we were occupied by a foreign power or oppressive government.
It’s you that failed to comprehend the GFA (so called) is actually an opportunity for Irish unity if it so wished
It may not be but g thy be question posed is were these people terrorists.
it’s skating on thin ice if you decide they were fighting nationalism and freedom as then you’d have to defend the Paisley movement for doing the same when it’s clear the remaining provinces wanted and continue to want uk sovereignty
Also the split in the Ira and the subsequent bloodshed amongst its own was worse than the preceding deaths
Mandella is a dumb comparison - and significantly he gained traction through political alliance in the end not by bombing the fuck out of everyone
I have to be entirely honest here and say that I have never heard of Dr Valera before and had to Google them.Actually Tony if we are really going to have the discussion let’s have it on De Valera - an utterly revolting individual who clearly was a megalomaniac - what’s your view on him
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?