SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Whilst Teresa Dis-May would pour boiling hot tea down anyone within reach & pinch their wallet/purse while they were being tended to
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London fire (17 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sky Blue Pete
- Start date
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
So she hid...which is kinda the point really.
Bet Maggie T would have been another one that would have immediately taken it on as her duty to visit the residents. Doubt Blair would've but I suspect Gordon Brown would have. Even Cameron might well have just done it anyway.
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dutchman
Well-Known Member
Well that's two more things than anyone will ever get from a Tory!
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
funding illegal wars tends to drain the coffers.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
I've just heard this job was never signed off by the building owners, which unsurprisingly is the local council.
I've seen and disbelieved the cover-up stories, but this is most definitely one. Why would you spend £10mill and not sign it off? I can't imagine it's the building management company that fronted the money?
I've seen and disbelieved the cover-up stories, but this is most definitely one. Why would you spend £10mill and not sign it off? I can't imagine it's the building management company that fronted the money?
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
The building managers I suppose. Like I say though if the Council own the building I'm sure they would've signed it off either as the building owner or Building Control (a council department).
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
It is entirely possible that there may be some MP's that don't have ulterior motives. You can understand the cynicism however.
Don't know if the printed press have followed up but Newsnight did a peice last night about other buildings across the country and within London.
A similar block across London had a similar fire and the same cladding and was contained.
They emphasised that particular block had fire stops between floors and around windows, another reference to that point was pertinent to another example.
All of which seemed to imply that they were not present in Grenfell Tower.
A similar block across London had a similar fire and the same cladding and was contained.
They emphasised that particular block had fire stops between floors and around windows, another reference to that point was pertinent to another example.
All of which seemed to imply that they were not present in Grenfell Tower.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Contractors cutting corners to save money instead of lives, but hey let's blame the Tories and in particular May as that's popular right now and I'll get lots of likes for doing so. It must be her fault, in fact she's responsible for everything that is bad and nothing that is good.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
David Lammie tweeted last night that the Architects who designed the upgrade were now deleting material from their website.
It usually takes a year or even more to finalise acceptance of major works, there are always snags that take time to fix & quite often disputes go to court.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
It isn't
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I don't blame May but she's in a party of government that is obsessed with deregulation and has overseen an austerity programme that essentially leads to corner cutting (i.e. doing things on the cheap), of course they deserve criticism. Whether they're directly to blame is up for debate but I won't lose any sleep over people wanting answers from the government.
Just been said on SKY.
Has class O fire safety on surface spread
which I believe relates to protective coatings, but if it is not inert to begin with is pretty useless.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
I'm sure the enquiry will commission some tests on the cladding used & similar products.
If the manufacturers are found to have have falsified their claims for the product then they deserve everything that comes to them.
In the same Newsnight peice last night certain LA's have sent samples to the Govt for testing, suggesting that they're unsure of what's been installed on their buildings.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
The Insulation has class 0 rating so meets required fire ratings. The cladding does not which is why it's illegal in foreign countries as reported. The cladding is not illegal as it's not required to have a fire rating.
Is my understanding.
Ok rich
It's a minefield and I'm behind the curve
Fire industry leaders have said it's illegal in regulations but is passed with certain ammendments.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
I'm not 100% au fait on it, but I think that because the insulation is Class0 the rainscreen does not need it. I.e. there is a flame resistant material between the flammable material and the building. Looks like a massive oversight once you get to Windows.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
For those interested in what the regulations seem to say regarding cladding and the risks identified these links make worrying reading. It took 5 minutes to get the information so why cant media, politicians, contractors, decision makers etc do it. The standards are referred to and the risks assessed
Restricting the spread of fire with external wall insulation (company website)
https://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/Fire and Security/FI---External-Fire-Spread-Part-1.pdf report compiled for Department of Communities & Local Government April 2016
CPD 6 2016: Fire safety of external cladding for high-rise buildings Training Course March 2016
House of Commons - Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs - First Report parliamentary report in 2000
Part of the BRE report indicates it is not just the cladding but also the fact that open windows create a path for fire to spread. So the cladding might be the major factor but it will not be the only factor
Surely this is not something that should be about point scoring, for political activists, for celebrity status, for being politicised, for massaging or destroying egos, for budget cutting............. its more important than that, it shouldn't take such a disaster to get the right decisions and actions taken...... this is literally thousands of lives being at risk, and the risk has been known for years ffs!
Restricting the spread of fire with external wall insulation (company website)
https://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/Fire and Security/FI---External-Fire-Spread-Part-1.pdf report compiled for Department of Communities & Local Government April 2016
CPD 6 2016: Fire safety of external cladding for high-rise buildings Training Course March 2016
House of Commons - Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs - First Report parliamentary report in 2000
Part of the BRE report indicates it is not just the cladding but also the fact that open windows create a path for fire to spread. So the cladding might be the major factor but it will not be the only factor
Surely this is not something that should be about point scoring, for political activists, for celebrity status, for being politicised, for massaging or destroying egos, for budget cutting............. its more important than that, it shouldn't take such a disaster to get the right decisions and actions taken...... this is literally thousands of lives being at risk, and the risk has been known for years ffs!
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jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Grenfell Tower fire: Block acquired for survivors - BBC News
Victims to be re-housed in a posh new block.......Great news.....
....and a surprise (if it actually happens) to cynics like myself who figured they'd just be fucked about, in & out of temporary accommodation until the nation was distracted by something else when they could be re-located to Jaywick or Stoke on trent or etc...
....I also can't help having a little smile at the thought of those that have invested millions in their little kensington shoe box in the same block......
Victims to be re-housed in a posh new block.......Great news.....
....and a surprise (if it actually happens) to cynics like myself who figured they'd just be fucked about, in & out of temporary accommodation until the nation was distracted by something else when they could be re-located to Jaywick or Stoke on trent or etc...
....I also can't help having a little smile at the thought of those that have invested millions in their little kensington shoe box in the same block......
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
So although the Cladding used is not Fire Resistant it is class 0.
PE cladding and fire ratings - what does it all mean?
Lets start with the British results, to BS (British Standard) 476 part 6 &7. As you can see, and similar to the ASTM results on the first data sheet, both the PE and FR material have achieved ‘class 0’. What does that mean – in essence, it means it passes. The test is performed as shown in the diagram below (thanks again Bayer!)
The ‘cladding tile’ is the specimen. It is placed in a holder and subjected to 20 mins of burning from a gas burner, with electric heaters also heating the surface. Go back to our diagram of the cladding tile and see if you can work out why the PE tile passes in the same way the FR one does…
If you haven’t picked up the problem yet, don’t worry, because the German results are very telling. In Germany, the tiles are tested to DIN 4102, and as you can see this time the PE and the FR tiles have DIFFERENT results. PE has been rated as ‘B2’ whereas FR has been rated as ‘B1’. If you have made it this far you really want to know what this means, and once again I can refer to the helpful guide from Bayer for guidance.
PE cladding and fire ratings - what does it all mean?
Lets start with the British results, to BS (British Standard) 476 part 6 &7. As you can see, and similar to the ASTM results on the first data sheet, both the PE and FR material have achieved ‘class 0’. What does that mean – in essence, it means it passes. The test is performed as shown in the diagram below (thanks again Bayer!)
The ‘cladding tile’ is the specimen. It is placed in a holder and subjected to 20 mins of burning from a gas burner, with electric heaters also heating the surface. Go back to our diagram of the cladding tile and see if you can work out why the PE tile passes in the same way the FR one does…
If you haven’t picked up the problem yet, don’t worry, because the German results are very telling. In Germany, the tiles are tested to DIN 4102, and as you can see this time the PE and the FR tiles have DIFFERENT results. PE has been rated as ‘B2’ whereas FR has been rated as ‘B1’. If you have made it this far you really want to know what this means, and once again I can refer to the helpful guide from Bayer for guidance.
So although the Cladding used is not Fire Resistant it is class 0.
PE cladding and fire ratings - what does it all mean?
Lets start with the British results, to BS (British Standard) 476 part 6 &7. As you can see, and similar to the ASTM results on the first data sheet, both the PE and FR material have achieved ‘class 0’. What does that mean – in essence, it means it passes. The test is performed as shown in the diagram below (thanks again Bayer!)
The ‘cladding tile’ is the specimen. It is placed in a holder and subjected to 20 mins of burning from a gas burner, with electric heaters also heating the surface. Go back to our diagram of the cladding tile and see if you can work out why the PE tile passes in the same way the FR one does…
If you haven’t picked up the problem yet, don’t worry, because the German results are very telling. In Germany, the tiles are tested to DIN 4102, and as you can see this time the PE and the FR tiles have DIFFERENT results. PE has been rated as ‘B2’ whereas FR has been rated as ‘B1’. If you have made it this far you really want to know what this means, and once again I can refer to the helpful guide from Bayer for guidance.
Looks to me like BS476 is wholly inappropriate for an external application.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
I've seen a test on the material and it goes up like a match. No way are those test results legit.
Something fishy going on with that material achieving Class 0.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
They had a chap on the TV from the manufacturers in the States who expressed shock that it was used in the UK as its not allowed in most other places, including the US.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
That's horrid isn't it
Ranjit Bhurpa
Well-Known Member
Don't disagree, during the election and since he has been a very good front man, striking a chord i think with your average man in the street. Just hope he doesn't end up the same way as Blair.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
She's certainly responsible for a large portion of the mess we're currently in that's for sure. Or do you think she's doing a good job?
rob9872
Well-Known Member
What exactly are you attributing to her? As far as I can tell, she's public enemy number 1 for putting us through an unnecessary election in the hope of increasing her majority. Obviously that was a mistake, as was the entire campaign, but as a PM I think she's doing no more, no less than I would expect her to.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
You can guess I'm not in favour of her overall
whisper it however, but I feel a bit sorry for her over this particular incident. Any legislation would have been before she took over, as was the actual renovation. As for her visit then I can see why it's more important to try and put a plan in place rather than meet the residents.Now... that doesn't stop me wanting a different government that will acknowledge the need for proper social housing etc., and it doesn't stop me thinking she had a shocking election campaign. On this issue, however, on a personal level, I kind of think she's been hung out to dry a bit.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
You can guess I'm not in favour of her overall
Now... that doesn't stop me wanting a different government that will acknowledge the need for proper social housing etc., and it doesn't stop me thinking she had a shocking election campaign. On this issue, however, on a personal level, I kind of think she's been hung out to dry a bit.
she's a bit like tim fisher. Turns up and tries to engage - pisses everyone off, keeps a safe distance - pisses everyone off.
I think the technical explanation is, they're a pair of arseholes.
Corbyn regards Blair with the utmost contempt. Quite right too and absolutely no way will Corbyn relax his principles for that fucking weasel.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Not saying they are responsible but even if it was found they were we all know that nothing really bad will happen to them.