London stabbings...

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

4 in 5 days. It's out of control. I don't know what the answer is but I do think that anyone caught carrying a blade should be handed a minimum 5 year sentence. Flood the streets with police. Build more prisons.
Deport any foreigners involved in gang violence back to where they came from as I don't want to pay for their prison upkeep thank you very much.
That's a start. Better than anything Mr Khan can come up with.

 

[Nick]

4 in 5 days. It's out of control. I don't know what the answer is but I do think that anyone caught carrying a blade should be handed a minimum 5 year sentence. Flood the streets with police. Build more prisons.
Deport any foreigners involved in gang violence back to where they came from as I don't want to pay for their prison upkeep thank you very much.
That's a start. Better than anything Mr Khan can come up with.

Too soft on them. Never understood the appeal of knives. Cowards.

Let the police deal with things like that rather than outrage on the internet

 

[pusbccfc]

Definitely agree with 5 years.

Should be a knife tax as well for anyone under 30. It won't do much, but will make it just that bit more tricky to get one.

 

[Otis]

4 in 5 days. It's out of control. I don't know what the answer is but I do think that anyone caught carrying a blade should be handed a minimum 5 year sentence. Flood the streets with police. Build more prisons.
Deport any foreigners involved in gang violence back to where they came from as I don't want to pay for their prison upkeep thank you very much.
That's a start. Better than anything Mr Khan can come up with.

Flood the streets with police? Aren't the police saying they are already overstretched already?

 

[martcov]

4 in 5 days. It's out of control. I don't know what the answer is but I do think that anyone caught carrying a blade should be handed a minimum 5 year sentence. Flood the streets with police. Build more prisons.
Deport any foreigners involved in gang violence back to where they came from as I don't want to pay for their prison upkeep thank you very much.
That's a start. Better than anything Mr Khan can come up with.

I don’t think Khan is the reason for reducing police numbers.

 

[dutchman]

Mandatory flogging with a cat o'nine tails for all offences involving sex, violence or drugs.

Automatic deportation for anyone of foreign origin convicted of any serious offence, along with their entire family.

 

[Nick]

A few people arrested for that Grenfell effigy.

No doubt a sick joke, also a waste of police time finding them when they could be dealing with proper crime.

 

[clint van damme]

Flood the streets with police? Aren't the police saying they are already overstretched already?

no correlation between reduction in police numbers and increase in crime according to the government even though a leaked home office report says otherwise as does every police chief in the UK, or drama queens as May referred to them when they warned her what would happen due to the cuts.

 

[clint van damme]

Mandatory flogging with a cat o'nine tails for all offences involving sex, violence or drugs.

Automatic deportation for anyone of foreign origin convicted of any serious offence, along with their entire family.

reactionary nonsense.

 

[Macca]

Stop glorifying gangster culture might help

 

[Covrock]

Increase in stop and search would help. Oh sorry we can't do that because all the snowflake, PC your picking on us brigades would be out in force. The Police can't do right from wrong, their hands are tied by snotty beurocracy. The Police know who the gangs are but are often helpless to do anything about it because of racism, harrassement etc. Talk to a Bobby on the street and they will tell you the truth about what is going on, not the people who sit in their ivory towers and only come out when the TV camera's are about.

 

[Nick]

Increase in stop and search would help. Oh sorry we can't do that because all the snowflake, PC your picking on us brigades would be out in force. The Police can't do right from wrong, their hands are tied by snotty beurocracy. The Police know who the gangs are but are often helpless to do anything about it because of racism, harrassement etc. Talk to a Bobby on the street and they will tell you the truth about what is going on, not the people who sit in their ivory towers and only come out when the TV camera's are about.

Exactly. Again it's the parents as well.

If my parents thought I was roaming the streets with a knife it would be taken off me and I'd probably be taken to the police station when I was a kid.

Now the parents fight with police for them daring to pick on their babies.

Simple one, put everybody who carries a knife and wants to use it into an arena and let them purge.

 

[Macca]

A few people arrested for that Grenfell effigy.

No doubt a sick joke, also a waste of police time finding them when they could be dealing with proper crime.

Quite happy to use police time to catch those fuckers to be fair. What do people like this move on to?

 

[Nick]

Quite happy to use police time to catch those fuckers to be fair. What do people like this move on to?

Let them have a kickin rather then wasting police resources.

 

[Macca]

Nah I think naming and shaming would be more efficient.
Frankly while society is obsessed with trying to be plastic gangster and ramming rap and fake gang signs down kids throats even before school age then a few extra coppers won't help. At least it is not a huge threat to the wider public.

People who find this culture glamorous will learn when it actually affects them. Unfortunately they won't learn that lesson from their leafy Warwickshire suburb

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Increase in stop and search would help. Oh sorry we can't do that because all the snowflake, PC your picking on us brigades would be out in force. The Police can't do right from wrong, their hands are tied by snotty beurocracy. The Police know who the gangs are but are often helpless to do anything about it because of racism, harrassement etc. Talk to a Bobby on the street and they will tell you the truth about what is going on, not the people who sit in their ivory towers and only come out when the TV camera's are about.

Evidence shows it doesn’t work but hey yeah let’s do stuff that doesn’t help improve things

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Anyone got any actual answers? How can the police investigate 120 murders since the start of the year it’s insane.

Mandatory sentences for carrying weapons may be part of the answer but the death sentence doesn’t seem to stop people murdering others.

Why is society so violent is my question? Children aren’t born wanting to take the life of another, when does it start. Have we taken our relative peace and opportunity in our country for granted and not pursued equality

If I’m honest thinking out loud a society that becomes so polarised in terms of haves and have nots all historical evidence points to the expectation of increases in crime.

You’d expect me as a liberal to say this but it’s abaolutely true that a full answer obviously includes punishment but for punishment someone will have died or been attacked. People need purpose, value, opportunity, meaning, family, friends. We remove investment in all these things and are then surprised when some in our society don’t feel they belong and accept the value given by belonging to a gang or feeling like a tough lad.

Any complete answer has to answer how we can include young people in our society. Look at youth services, look at poverty, look at housing and find long term solutions. Look at how hard you can punish people and improve things slightly short term but make no difference to the deep divisions in our society

 

[Nick]

Nah I think naming and shaming would be moresFrankly while society is obsessed with trying to be plastic gangster and ramming rap and fake gang signs down kids throats even before school age then a few extra coppers won't help. At least it is not a huge threat to the wider public.

People who find this culture glamorous will learn when it actually affects them. Unfortunately they won't learn that lesson from their leafy Warwickshire suburb

I think naming them will be the same thing.

Agree about the fake gangster thing, need to stamp it out.

The other thing is these vigils they have for them making them out to be angels. When people really are innocent and caught up in it of course but the whole "he was an angel" nonsense for gang members who get killed who clearly weren't.

Same as that one in town recently. It's all well and good the family campaigning now, what about when he was going round robbing innocent people at gun point. Why not sort it then?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think naming them will be the same thing.

Agree about the fake gangster thing, need to stamp it out.

The other thing is these vigils they have for them making them out to be angels. When people really are innocent and caught up in it of course but the whole "he was an angel" nonsense for gang members who get killed who clearly weren't.

Same as that one in town recently. It's all well and good the family campaigning now, what about when he was going round robbing innocent people at gun point. Why not sort it then?

Absolutely. I always like to look at potential and the inate value in each human life so I like that death can help us remember the good rather than the bad. But having said that I do agree that the disconnect of the families is strange. The one that frustrates me is on the a444 where they act with impunity and put everyone in danger with their vigil or memorial. Including parking on the inside lane to put candles up.or other stuff in the dark and with no hazards on etc.

 

[Nick]

Absolutely. I always like to look at potential and the inate value in each human life so I like that death can help us remember the good rather than the bad. But having said that I do agree that the disconnect of the families is strange. The one that frustrates me is on the a444 where they act with impunity and put everyone in danger with their vigil or memorial. Including parking on the inside lane to put candles up.or other stuff in the dark and with no hazards on etc.

I think people think it's about self entitlement now. The example on the A444 is that they can enable it as a "memorial" and really just use it as an excuse to drive around on motorbikes like absolute bellends. Soon as the police do anything they fire up the social media, go to the papers and whip up some outrage that the police were disrespecting the bloke who died because they dared to start pulling people over. I'd block each end of the bypass, take every single bike that wasn't road legal.

The other thing which links into stabbings is moped crime, they get away with it because the police can't chase them. Even more so when they take their helmet off the police have to stop straight away. So because people know how easy it is to get away with it they will just keep doing, start wiping them out with rubber bullets every time and I bet moped crime decreases when they know not only will they be caught but they might be hurt in the process.

As soon as people know they can do things, they will do. When I was a kid I would be more petrified of getting a bollocking from parents than I was of the actual police so if the police knocked on the door I knew I'd be in trouble. Now you have parents actively defend the kids from the police what chance is there? Why would people bother going to work for a living when they can just go and rob a few people or sell a few drugs?

 

[clint van damme]

Anyone got any actual answers? How can the police investigate 120 murders since the start of the year it’s insane.

Mandatory sentences for carrying weapons may be part of the answer but the death sentence doesn’t seem to stop people murdering others.

Why is society so violent is my question? Children aren’t born wanting to take the life of another, when does it start. Have we taken our relative peace and opportunity in our country for granted and not pursued equality

If I’m honest thinking out loud a society that becomes so polarised in terms of haves and have nots all historical evidence points to the expectation of increases in crime.

You’d expect me as a liberal to say this but it’s abaolutely true that a full answer obviously includes punishment but for punishment someone will have died or been attacked. People need purpose, value, opportunity, meaning, family, friends. We remove investment in all these things and are then surprised when some in our society don’t feel they belong and accept the value given by belonging to a gang or feeling like a tough lad.

Any complete answer has to answer how we can include young people in our society. Look at youth services, look at poverty, look at housing and find long term solutions. Look at how hard you can punish people and improve things slightly short term but make no difference to the deep divisions in our society

I don't think there's any on answer but you've made some valid points.
I definitely think inequality plays a part. Some of these kids in London live in poverty in the shadow of extreme and frankly unattainable wealth.

They've done a lot in Glasgow to reduce knife crime and death/injury from knife by making it a public health issue and knife crime has halved. They've introduced something similar in London it doesn't work over night.
It took years to take effect in Glasgow but I think we have to try something different.

 

[Nick]

I don't think there's any on answer but you've made some valid points.
I definitely think inequality plays a part. Some of these kids in London live in poverty in the shadow of extreme and frankly unattainable wealth.

They've done a lot in Glasgow to reduce knife crime and death/injury from knife by making it a public health issue and knife crime has halved. They've introduced something similar in London it doesn't work over night.
It took years to take effect in Glasgow but I think we have to try something different.

The thing is there is always going to be poverty and wealth that is unattainable. I know that unless there is a miracle I'm never going to be a millionaire driving round in supercars and living in a mansion but it doesn't mean I can use it as an excuse to start selling drugs or getting into crime.

There should be education on going to get a job and working for things like everybody else rather than blaming everybody else for it to excuse shocking behaviour.

Why would they though? They can make silly money selling drugs, if they get sent down they continue making even more money while they are inside to come out to more money than before they went inside.

Crime shouldn't pay, while it does people will do it rather than go and do an honest day's graft.

 

[clint van damme]

The thing is there is always going to be poverty and wealth that is unattainable. I know that unless there is a miracle I'm never going to be a millionaire driving round in supercars and living in a mansion but it doesn't mean I can use it as an excuse to start selling drugs or getting into crime.

There should be education on going to get a job and working for things like everybody else rather than blaming everybody else for it to excuse shocking behaviour.

Why would they though? They can make silly money selling drugs, if they get sent down they continue making even more money while they are inside to come out to more money than before they went inside.

Crime shouldn't pay, while it does people will do it rather than go and do an honest day's graft.

I doubt many of these kids on these estates are making "silly money" selling drugs.

We live in a country where inequality is through the roof and working people are living in poverty. Not saying that's the only cause but it doesn't help.
Personally, with regard to drugs. I would decriminalise like they have in Portugal. Fantastic results.
Our current policy is an abject failure, we should try something different.

 

[Nick]

I doubt many of these kids on these estates are making "silly money" selling drugs.

We live in a country where inequality is through the roof and working people are living in poverty. Not saying that's the only cause but it doesn't help.
Personally, with regard to drugs. I would decriminalise like they have in Portugal. Fantastic results.
Our current policy is an abject failure, we should try something different.

You would be surprised, they will be making much more than if they went out and got a normal job which is why it appeals to them. It's the same with moped crime, saw a documentary where they could go out for a few hours and make 500 - 1000 easily in an afternoon just stealing bags and phones.

People do sometimes need to take responsibility for themselves and their kids. I don't doubt there is inequality but it's not an excuse.

 

[clint van damme]

You would be surprised, they will be making much more than if they went out and got a normal job which is why it appeals to them. It's the same with moped crime, saw a documentary where they could go out for a few hours and make 500 - 1000 easily in an afternoon just stealing bags and phones.

People do sometimes need to take responsibility for themselves and their kids. I don't doubt there is inequality but it's not an excuse.

not disputing there are people making a lot of money from crime but a lot of kids on these estates will be low level.
Inequality isn't an excuse but I believe it is one of the reasons, (among others), we need to start doing something to tackle it.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

I watched a video about takeaway delivery drivers in London. In certain areas they will almost certainly get chased and attacked for their mopeds. They film it with helmet cams. These animals come out of nowhere with baseball bats and knives and steal the mopeds for whatever gang related activity they want to do.

The drivers don't bother calling the police. Sad times.

 

[Nick]

I watched a video about takeaway delivery drivers in London. In certain areas they will almost certainly get chased and attacked for their mopeds. They film it with helmet cams. These animals come out of nowhere with baseball bats and knives and steal the mopeds for whatever gang related activity they want to do.

The drivers don't bother calling the police. Sad times.

Yeah think that's the one I saw.

They don't give a shit, they had one where they just turned up at a bloke's house in broad daylight and started hacking away at the padlock on his bike. Didn't give a shit that they were being filmed either.

The police can't really do much, they aren't really allowed to chase them on the bike because if they fall off it's the police' fault and a big shrine of chavvy tat is made for the little twats.

Big metal bar + front wheel = The end to moped crime.

 

[Sick Boy]

What do people expect when vital public services are cut?

It would interesting to see if the carrying of weapons is linked to drug culture, which I expect it is. It is common sense that the 'War on Drugs' has failed and is unwinnable, human beings always have and always will want to take mind-altering substances. The massive hypocrisy is that alcohol - one which has the greatest impact both physically and socially - is seen as being okay. Take the power out of the hands' of criminals and invest the budget wasted on the war tackling violent crime.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

Yeah think that's the one I saw.

They don't give a shit, they had one where they just turned up at a bloke's house in broad daylight and started hacking away at the padlock on his bike. Didn't give a shit that they were being filmed either.

The police can't really do much, they aren't really allowed to chase them on the bike because if they fall off it's the police' fault and a big shrine of chavvy tat is made for the little twats.

Big metal bar + front wheel = The end to moped crime.

Yeah that's the one.



They're so brash and relaxed about it. They even seem to get offended when the driver won't just hand the moped over. Judge Dredd style executions would sort these scum out.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

It is common sense that the 'War on Drugs' has failed

there has never been a war on drugs.

 

[clint van damme]

there has never been a war on drugs.

You've been reading the Daily Mail again.
Look at what's happening in the States, (where there has definitely been a war on drugs against users of a certain demographic), the look at Portugal, which approach has been best for society?
I ask which has been best for society because there are people who benefitted massively from the approach in the States, namely the privatised prisons and the pharmaceutical companies that produce opioids.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

I don't think there's any on answer but you've made some valid points.
I definitely think inequality plays a part. Some of these kids in London live in poverty in the shadow of extreme and frankly unattainable wealth.

They've done a lot in Glasgow to reduce knife crime and death/injury from knife by making it a public health issue and knife crime has halved. They've introduced something similar in London it doesn't work over night.
It took years to take effect in Glasgow but I think we have to try something different.

You’ve been reading The Guardian again.

‘Inequality’ (whatever that is) is not a reason, or any sort of justifiable excuse for carrying a knife and stabbing some poor sod.

 

[clint van damme]

You’ve been reading The Guardian again.

‘Inequality’ (whatever that is) is not a reason, or any sort of justifiable excuse for carrying a knife and stabbing some poor sod.

no i haven't. I don't shout into an echo chamber like you.
And I clearly said it's a reason, not an excuse.

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

You've been reading the Daily Mail again.
Look at what's happening in the States, (where there has definitely been a war on drugs against users of a certain demographic), the look at Portugal, which approach has been best for society?
I ask which has been best for society because there are people who benefitted massively from the approach in the States, namely the privatised prisons and the pharmaceutical companies that produce opioids.

^ 100%

Legalise it, then you regulate it. You improve the quality from what it is 'on the streets' and take out drug dealers business in one move. But fighting the war against drugs means a good bit of money...

A good pointless fact. The poppy fields of Afghanistan are perfect for growing cotton, which is a highly profitable crop, instead of opium. But US aid/development fund will not allow that as it's for the cultivation of a crop that will end up on the world market in competition with US farmers. Which is in line with the huge increase in heroin / opium production since the invasion.

 

[Macca]

My opinion is that legalising drugs in the uk will be about as successful as introducing the 24 hour continental pavement drinking culture. More addiction, more people unable to work, more benefits paid out