Lowest Ever Coventry City Attendance? (2 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

i know what my point is, whats yours?

mine is, it cant be aid if its getting paid back in form of a loan.

will sisu take Northampton Council to court for illegal use of state aid in form of the loan they have arranged for NTFC to build the extension at sixfields?

It could be aid if the loan is something that isn't otherwise accessible to other companies in that member state.

No, but why would they? The loan in that case had no impact on them.

 

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[torchomatic]

I would imagine back in the early 1880s there wasn't a lot of choice!

I said 'became what was Coventry City', in an earlier post I said Coventry 1883. Could you just give up on a football team representing the City of Coventry. What happened when we were first formed, people had to start supporting something they hadn't previously.

 

[Captain Dart]

I may have this wrong, but my analysis from 10,000 feet (ignoring details) is..

SUSU's argument is that public funds were used in support of an attempt to distress a private company (ie CCFC).

CCC's defence is that there was no such conspiracy and funds were used to restructure the finances of an asset to prevent it becoming worthless.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I may have this wrong, but my analysis from 10,000 feet (ignoring details) is..

SUSU's argument is that public funds were used in support of an attempt to distress a private company (ie CCFC).

CCC's defence is that there was no such conspiracy and funds were used to restructure the finances of an asset to prevent it becoming worthless.

Yeah. That sounds about it from my point of view.

It'll be interesting to hear the court outcome and see what's disclosed during the proceedings.

 

[wingy]

Yeah. That sounds about it from my point of view.

It'll be interesting to hear the court outcome and see what's disclosed during the proceedings.

If the Vehicle used was CNR Ltd ,I can't see any difference between this Instance and the one where It was used to Complete the Construction of the Stadium ,Its a simple reversion to the same ,In fact the council on this occasion are making a return on the loan ,which suggests less in terms of aid than first time round.

 

[James Smith]

I may have this wrong, but my analysis from 10,000 feet (ignoring details) is..

SUSU's argument is that public funds were used in support of an attempt to distress a private company (ie CCFC).

CCC's defence is that there was no such conspiracy and funds were used to restructure the finances of an asset to prevent it becoming worthless.

If the Vehicle used was CNR Ltd ,I can't see any difference between this Instance and the one where It was used to Complete the Construction of the Stadium ,Its a simple reversion to the same ,In fact the council on this occasion are making a return on the loan ,which suggests less in terms of aid than first time round.

They could also point (if allowed) to the comments of the first judge that the rent boycott was an attempt to distress ACL - hence the need for the loan.

 

[skybluetony176]

It could be aid if the loan is something that isn't otherwise accessible to other companies in that member state.

No, but why would they? The loan in that case had no impact on them.

although it would be funny if sisu actually could fill sixfields and gain direct benefit from the state aid extension

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I would imagine back in the early 1880s there wasn't a lot of choice!

Now however, a change is gradually being brought about and a game that only one or two seasons ago was looked upon with indifference in Coventry is rapidly gaining in public favour. If any proofis wanted of what I say I need only point to the match on Saturday between Singers and the Unity Gas Works in the third round of the Birmingham Cup when about 1,400 spectators put in an appearance at Stoke Road, thus establishing what has been termed a "record gate"

That's from five years after the club's foundation.

 

[fernandopartridge]

If the Vehicle used was CNR Ltd ,I can't see any difference between this Instance and the one where It was used to Complete the Construction of the Stadium ,Its a simple reversion to the same ,In fact the council on this occasion are making a return on the loan ,which suggests less in terms of aid than first time round.

I am not sure. The council own the freehold to the stadium so it's legitimate for them to invest in its construction.

 

[fernandopartridge]

although it would be funny if sisu actually could fill sixfields and gain direct benefit from the state aid extension

Come on Tone, realistic scenarios only please.

 

[bigfatronssba]

If the Vehicle used was CNR Ltd ,I can't see any difference between this Instance and the one where It was used to Complete the Construction of the Stadium ,Its a simple reversion to the same ,In fact the council on this occasion are making a return on the loan ,which suggests less in terms of aid than first time round.

I would have thought that sisu's only chance of winning is if they can prove the council used public funds to specifically stop sisu buying the arena.

As for the rest of it, ACL makes money, that council is charging interest so it will make money, and a public asset is secured.

So I can see no situation where the loan itself was deemed illegal, but only its motive.

 

[The Gentleman]

I would imagine back in the early 1880s there wasn't a lot of choice!

However, my point still stands. Everybody has got to start somewhere, whether it is 1080, 1580, 1880, or 2014, if there was absolutely no other option, could you support a new team ?

 

[italiahorse]

I would have thought that sisu's only chance of winning is if they can prove the council used public funds to specifically stop sisu buying the arena.

As for the rest of it, ACL makes money, that council is charging interest so it will make money, and a public asset is secured.

So I can see no situation where the loan itself was deemed illegal, but only its motive.

I can't see the 'motive' of pushing a non payer of an agreed rental out as being illegal.
Also ACL, and most of us, would have liked someone new in who was willing to buy the stadium at a fair price and take on the team.
We need to wait to find out what actually happened.

 

[Captain Dart]

But there is still a grey area, even if some officials/elected representatives wanted SISU out & (rather foolishly) said so or left a paper trail showing that was being considered, it is still more likely in my opinion that correspondence discussing the rationale for the actual loan was all fine and SISU still need to prove intent. I think they'll have a hard time doing that.

 

[martcov]

Maybe SISU just want to keep it going win or lose. CCC is effectively gagged as they daren't open their mouths for fear of giving SISU some evidence. SISU can tell their investors that their investment still has a chance of a pay off, thus winning time and avoiding a panic which would be caused by saying we blew up to 60m and it is now over. As long as plans are being made, court cases are pending etc. they don't have to admit that they have lost a fortune by buying a football team with no long term inexpensive lease and only limited revenue streams.

I say wait and see…. let the press start digging, ACL start bringing in new potential Partners for the stadium business or CCC find someone in the event and exhibition business to take over ACL. Let SISU move on and build their stadium in the country. Start questioning their use of the name "Coventry City" when they have said enough times that they are not coming back within the City.

SISU is looking very exposed now and the reaction to the Trust link showed how worried about bad publicity that they are. Give them more bad publicity. Challenge them over the stadium plans. Stay away from Sixfields, but attend away games when possible. Move on as they say….

 

[shmmeee]

That's from five years after the club's foundation.

Fuck me, same amount of home fans now as then.

 

[bigfatronssba]

But there is still a grey area, even if some officials/elected representatives wanted SISU out & (rather foolishly) said so or left a paper trail showing that was being considered, it is still more likely in my opinion that correspondence discussing the rationale for the actual loan was all fine and SISU still need to prove intent. I think they'll have a hard time doing that.

My understanding is its perfectly legal for the council to state they want sisu out. Its a free country and if the peoples representatives do not support the leadership of a leading business in the area they are perfectly entitled to shout that view from the roof tops, so long as they do not state any incorrect "facts".

Another one of Tim's complaints was the council was willing to sell to others but not sisu. Well TS Tim, the council is within its rights to have a preferred bidder. They have to look at the long term future of the business for sale.

The only way it becomes an issue is if public funds were used to try and force sisu out because of personal feelings at the council. Very difficult for sisu to prove IMO.

 

[James Smith]

My understanding is its perfectly legal for the council to state they want sisu out. Its a free country and if the peoples representatives do not support the leadership of a leading business in the area they are perfectly entitled to shout that view from the roof tops, so long as they do not state any incorrect "facts".

Another one of Tim's complaints was the council was willing to sell to others but not sisu. Well TS Tim, the council is within its rights to have a preferred bidder. They have to look at the long term future of the business for sale.

The only way it becomes an issue is if public funds were used to try and force sisu out because of personal feelings at the council. Very difficult for sisu to prove IMO.

If Sisu are asked in court why they didn't negotiate before going on the rent boycott, I wonder what their answer would be? I mean the reason for the breakdown in relations was caused by the sudden and repeated non payment of rent.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

I wouldn't. A new team wouldn't be Coventry City, would it?

If Coventry City had been liquidated and it was a "phoenix" club, absolutely it would be Coventry City. The same as Nuneaton Town are Nuneaton Boro, AFC Wimbledon are Wimbledon and the Glasgow Rangers now playing in Division 2 are the ones that have won all of those trophies. There's a clear precedent and the fans of those clubs don't in any way feel as if their identity is compromised-if anything, they are more aware of it than ever before having fought to bring their club back from the dead. Try telling an AFC Wimbledon fan (and I know quite a few) that they don't support the side that won the FA Cup under Bobby Gould and see what response you get!

 

[Grendel]

If Coventry City had been liquidated and it was a "phoenix" club, absolutely it would be Coventry City. The same as Nuneaton Town are Nuneaton Boro, AFC Wimbledon are Wimbledon and the Glasgow Rangers now playing in Division 2 are the ones that have won all of those trophies. There's a clear precedent and the fans of those clubs don't in any way feel as if their identity is compromised-if anything, they are more aware of it than ever before having fought to bring their club back from the dead. Try telling an AFC Wimbledon fan (and I know quite a few) that they don't support the side that won the FA Cup under Bobby Gould and see what response you get!

The fans answering the survey don't agree.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The fans answering the survey don't agree.

tbf it's a question in the here and now.

And it shows that most people don't want another club while the current one has a pulse, even if it's on life support.

It might become a different story if that one dies; for that matter if it did die, the question becomes a bit redundant anyway as then it just becomes a question of whether other clubs are viable or not and whether people want to follow one... not forcing people to make a choice as of now.

 

[covmark]

tbf it's a question in the here and now.

And it shows that most people don't want another club while the current one has a pulse, even if it's on life support.

It might become a different story if that one dies; for that matter if it did die, the question becomes a bit redundant anyway as then it just becomes a question of whether other clubs are viable or not and whether people want to follow one... not forcing people to make a choice as of now.

what you state is the crux of the matter, ccfc is still alive, only just, but it's still here. I definitely couldn't get behind a new club now. In the future? Maybe, but I couldn't support them with the same vigour as I support the original ccfc. It just wouldn't be the same for me. To be even talking about this situation is disgraceful. Ccfc come home, it's already been far too long.