Manager problem or Club problem (4 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

Are all of these people bad managers or is there a more common problem and sacking managers not the answer

• Gordon Strachan (1996–2001) 11th
  
• Roland Nilsson (2001–2002) 11th
  
• Trevor Peake (caretaker) (2002) 20th
  
• Gary McAllister (2002–2003) 20th
  
• Eric Black (2003–2004) 12th
  
• Steve Ogrizovic (caretaker) (2004) 12th
  
• Peter Reid (2004–2005) 19th
  
• Adrian Heath (caretaker) (2005) 08th and 17th
  
• Micky Adams (2005–2007)
• Adrian Heath (caretaker) (2007)
• Iain Dowie (2007–2008) 21st
  
• Frankie Bunn & John Harbin (caretakers) (2008)
• Chris Coleman (2008–2010) 17th
  
• Aidy Boothroyd (2010–2011) 19th, 18th
  
• Steve Harrison & Andy Thorn (caretakers) (2011)
• Andy Thorn (2011–)

I think the whole club needs a change from top to bottom but I have no Idea how that will happen. Also I would like to see a manager in charge for 7 years.

Personally I would be happy with Thorn but I know that will upset a lot of you. However lets not make this about him.

Do you agree that the whole club needs sorting out Owners, Board, marketing, community work, stadium ownership family days etc... Transfer policy. Setting up feeder clubs in the local region. As oppose to getting further into debt allienating the fans, selling players without adequate replacements in place and sacking a manager every season.

 

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[skybluegod]

I agree 100% with what you have said we need a complete clean out and a long term commited manager.

 

[hitmanhearns]

SISU out is what we need followed by a normal board with a normal chairman capable of appointing someone better than the above mentioned tripe- that´s what our previous managers have been-utter tripe. I mean look at that list!!!...it´s unreal!

2 exceptions; Nilsson and Black the only ones to experience success after managing us....Both, of course, sacked.

The current problem is sisu the long term problem has been debt caused by incompetence which in turn has led to incompetent appointments.

We´ve actually never had a proven, successful, relevant manager in the championship

McAllister?- tremendous disaster

Reid?-No, he was a pundit when not being a monkey. No success with us or after us

Coleman?-barely survived in the PL same result in the championship with us. No success with us or after us

Boothroyd?-worst football witnessed ever-eventually found out. No success with us or after us

Micky Adams?-IMO the soundest of the appointments and was still somewhat relevant at this time. No success with us or after us

Dowie?-Wild card and cupfun....failed. No success with us or after us

Strange that all the managers above have dissapeared into the nothingness after managing us-coleman being the exception who still managed to get relegated in greece before taking the welsh handout.

You´ve got to get the right manager to get out of this division-it´s fundamental. In todays championship most players are of similar level with some exceptions, it is the manager that is the tipping of the scale.
We´ve never had a good one. Look at the list...

There´s your problem

And BTW we now have a scout as manager

 

[dongonzalos]

Although I dont think sacking Thorn is a good idea, if the worse happens then this makes interesting reading F.C. Copenhagen After a long period of rumors it was announced on April 1st 2011 Nilsson would take over as head coach in F.C. Copenhagen after Ståle Solbakken.[1] Nilsson joined the club on June 1st 2011.[2]. On January 9th 2012, just six months after his recruitment, despite topping the Danish Superliga at the time, he was sacked and replaced by the sporting director Carsten V. Jensen. [4] Malmö FF On 10 October 2007, Malmö FF announced that Nilsson had signed a four-year contract as coach, replacing Sören Åkeby.[3] This was a controversial move, because Malmö are the main rivals of Helsingborg and IFK Göteborg, two of Nilsson's former clubs. Nilsson enjoyed little success during his first two seasons at Malmö FF, and his side finished in mid-table positions in both 2008 and 2009. In 2010, however, he finally managed to create a winning team from the squad left by Åkeby, and the team enjoyed top league positions throughout the season finally winning the league.

 

[Sick Boy]

Strange that all the managers above have dissapeared into the nothingness after managing us-coleman being the exception who still managed to get relegated in greece before taking the welsh handout.

Coleman only lost one game out of 12 with Larrissa?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

2 exceptions; Nilsson and Black the only ones to experience success after managing us....Both, of course, sacked.

Both had excellent records at CCFC, too. Every so often we'll see this list of CCFC managers pop up as an example of why a high turnover of managers doesn't lead to success, but it's completely redundant considering that we sacked at least two high-performing managers who may well have taken us on to much better things.

 

[brinner]

Sisu are the current problem and need to fuck off.

If given the backing, Thorn would make a good manager.

To still be in with a fighting chance of staying up at this stage of the season with the shower of shit that is our current squad the man has performed a minor miracle so far this season.

 

[Otis]

Have always said we should stick by a manager if we can and stability is key to our success.

But if a manager isn't good enough, he isn't good enough and it would be madness to prolong the agony of his tenure any further. if we find we have a player who just isn't good enough, why would we offe them a new contract?

Oops, Bell and Baker. :facepalm:

 

[ccfcway]

it really is a depressing read isnt it !

 

[WillieStanley]

This is it. Roland or Black never got a fair roll of the dice. Had they been, who know's how the rest of our history would have panned out.

All this list shows is that there is a deep routed problem. One that we thought we had solved back in 2007 but alas, it just grew.

Ridiculous decisions like Jim Smith and Peter Ried cost us back then, and we didn't realise just how much. All we can do is pray that the new owners... whenever they come and whoever they are, rid us of this sea of neglect and mismanagement

 

[@richh87]

Sisu are the current problem and need to fuck off.

If given the backing, Thorn would make a good manager.

To still be in with a fighting chance of staying up at this stage of the season with the shower of shit that is our current squad the man has performed a minor miracle so far this season.

Brinner's alive!

I thought Igwe & Seppalla had rolled you up in a carpet and thrown you off a bridge!

 

[@richh87]

Have always said we should stick by a manager if we can and stability is key to our success.

But if a manager isn't good enough, he isn't good enough and it would be madness to prolong the agony of his tenure any further. if we find we have a player who just isn't good enough, why would we offe them a new contract?

Oops, Bell and Baker. :facepalm:

This thread's not about Thorn. And also you're massively unreasonable. A manager without his talent for spotting players would have us down by now. Thank god he got Nimely and Norwood in.

One question - where do you think this squad would he under the previous 3 managers?

 

[Otis]

Under Coleman, in the same place for sure. Coleman in my view though is a bad manager. He certainly was a terrible manager for us.

And I think you have missed the point of my post completely. No idea why you thought my post was about Thorn. :thinking about: It wasn't.

My post was simply saying yes, we need stability, yes, we shouldn't keep changing managers, but the one clause in all that is that if a manager proves himself to be useless it would be madness to retain him just because we keep sacking managers and we want to not keep going down that route.

The Bell and Baker comment wasn't a dig at Thorn either, I was just comparing by saying if you have players who are not good enough you get rid of them. And it should be the same with managers too. Yes, I'm all for stability and for us to build foundations and sticking by a manager, but that would be plain daft if the manager simply isn't good enough.

My post wasn't about Thorn at all.

 

[Macca]

I think that just to test the theory and stop the whiners we should keep our manager for 20 years regardless of results.

 

[Macca]

Because clearly our lack of success has been down to sacking managers

 

[@richh87]

Under Coleman, in the same place for sure. Coleman in my view though is a bad manager. He certainly was a terrible manager for us.

And I think you have missed the point of my post completely. No idea why you thought my post was about Thorn. :thinking about: It wasn't.

My post was simply saying yes, we need stability, yes, we shouldn't keep changing managers, but the one clause in all that is that if a manager proves himself to be useless it would be madness to retain him just because we keep sacking managers and we want to not keep going down that route.

The Bell and Baker comment wasn't a dig at Thorn either, I was just comparing by saying if you have players who are not good enough you get rid of them. And it should be the same with managers too. Yes, I'm all for stability and for us to build foundations and sticking by a manager, but that would be plain daft if the manager simply isn't good enough.

My post wasn't about Thorn at all.

I don't believe for a second that giving those two new contracts was his idea. I believe SISU did it to increase the book value of the squad. What's the man supposed to say "they've got new contracts but they're shite, however I have no players so will have to use them"? I also believe that he has got the best out of a bunch of kids - a fact people on your side of the fence ignore.Both hands tied behind his back, a club In turmoil and STILL making a fight of survival.

Anyway - back to the point. I believe that we need to stick with a manager for years and build. And who better to build than Thorn???

 

[Otis]

I don't believe for a second that giving those two new contracts was his idea. I believe SISU did it to increase the book value of the squad. What's the man supposed to say "they've got new contracts but they're shite, however I have no players so will have to use them"? I also believe that he has got the best out of a bunch of kids - a fact people on your side of the fence ignore.Both hands tied behind his back, a club In turmoil and STILL making a fight of survival.

Anyway - back to the point. I believe that we need to stick with a manager for years and build. And who better to build than Thorn???

Based on what Rob? That we play nice passing football? That he seems a nice bloke? That he's a novice in his first season?

Massive gamble in my book to build with a complete novice who has made mistakes and has had us in the bottom 3 since October.

The diamond thing could also well come back to bite him on the bum. If we now survive playing 4-4-2, the question is going to be asked, why didn't he do it earlier so we didn't get ourselves into such a mess in the first place? If we do well now until the end of the season, but go down, again the question will be asked, if he had changed to 4-4-2 earlier would we have survived?

 

[@richh87]

Based on what Rob? That we play nice passing football? That he seems a nice bloke? That he's a novice in his first season?

Massive gamble in my book to build with a complete novice who has made mistakes and has had us in the bottom 3 since October.

The diamond thing could also well come back to bite him on the bum. If we now survive playing 4-4-2, the question is going to be asked, why didn't he do it earlier so we didn't get ourselves into such a mess in the first place? If we do well now until the end of the season, but go down, again the question will be asked, if he had changed to 4-4-2 earlier would we have survived?

Rob?

Harry Redknapp lost his first ever game in management 7-0. People learn and become better managers - and that seems to be exactly what thorn is doing. Alex Ferguson was almost sacked because his first 4 years weren't good enough.

The reason I say he's the man to build Is that he's fantastic at spotting cheap talent and bringing through academy players. He also plays football which is attractive. I dread to think where we'd be under any of the previous ten years' managers - except possibly Black who to be fair didn't have long enough to properly be assessed.

Bothroyd, Dowie, Adams etc would have seen us on less points than we have now and we all know it. They had double the budget.

 

[Grendel]

I don't believe for a second that giving those two new contracts was his idea. I believe SISU did it to increase the book value of the squad. What's the man supposed to say "they've got new contracts but they're shite, however I have no players so will have to use them"?

People can have differing views but when statements are just made up to support an agenda this is irksome. I assume this is the Ian effect said to create conflict by having such an extreme view;

Thorn on Baker;

"Carl is just the sort of player we want to keep at this club.

"He showed his qualities when he scored earlier this season and I'm delighted he has agreed to extend his contract with us.

"He is an exciting player, he is a great character to have around the dressing room and his attitude and application are
exceptional so I for one am very pleased

Thorn on Bell and McPake;

"Bell and McPake have signed new deals committing them to the club for the next couple of years.

"Belly has been a revelation since we took over and after the injury troubles he's had he is now looking forward to spending more time in the first team.

"James also missed a lot of football last year with his broken back but he's got a few 90 minutes under his belt now and he's only going to get better.

"I brought both players into the club when I was chief scout and both are players I'd admired for quite a while."

So he made all that up did he yeah course he did.

 

[Otis]

Yep. Managers just say things to boost players confidence and we should never ever believe a single word they say.

Unless what they say proves to be positive and correct of course. In that case, then the bloke was right all along.

 

[Otis]

Rob?

Harry Redknapp lost his first ever game in management 7-0. People learn and become better managers - and that seems to be exactly what thorn is doing. Alex Ferguson was almost sacked because his first 4 years weren't good enough.

The reason I say he's the man to build Is that he's fantastic at spotting cheap talent and bringing through academy players. He also plays football which is attractive. I dread to think where we'd be under any of the previous ten years' managers - except possibly Black who to be fair didn't have long enough to properly be assessed.

Bothroyd, Dowie, Adams etc would have seen us on less points than we have now and we all know it. They had double the budget.

Sorry. Tis Monday. There is a Rob 87 isn't there? Or is it just me going senile. :facepalm:

 

[Sick Boy]

I have just shown this to a couple of West Ham fans, they are pissing themselves, to outsider this is an utter madness.

They can't believe what is being said, especially the thread about Thorn being in charge of them. They have said they feel sorry for the sensible fans but we deserve to get relegated to the Conference if we listen to people who believe Thorn is untouchable.

 

[Otis]

Why? Do they think Thorn would have them with 15 more points on board than the 10?

 

[Sick Boy]

Why? Do they think Thorn would have them with 15 more points on board than the 10?

They cannot believe it, it is truly embarrassing.

 

[Otis]

Who was it who said that anyway?

Would they kindly like to step forward and collect their award?

 

[Sick Boy]

Who was it who said that anyway?

Would they kindly like to step forward and collect their award?

The one who started this thread.

 

[@richh87]

People can have differing views but when statements are just made up to support an agenda this is irksome. I assume this is the Ian effect said to create conflict by having such an extreme view;

Thorn on Baker;

"Carl is just the sort of player we want to keep at this club.

"He showed his qualities when he scored earlier this season and I'm delighted he has agreed to extend his contract with us.

"He is an exciting player, he is a great character to have around the dressing room and his attitude and application are
exceptional so I for one am very pleased

Thorn on Bell and McPake;

"Bell and McPake have signed new deals committing them to the club for the next couple of years.

"Belly has been a revelation since we took over and after the injury troubles he's had he is now looking forward to spending more time in the first team.

"James also missed a lot of football last year with his broken back but he's got a few 90 minutes under his belt now and he's only going to get better.

"I brought both players into the club when I was chief scout and both are players I'd admired for quite a while."

So he made all that up did he yeah course he did.

There's nothing wrong with giving those guys new contracts as we can't afford to replace them.

What should we do instead - get yet more youngsters into the team?

After listening to Mourinho over the years and recently Dalglish I've learned that managers say things to motivate their squad or for effect of other types.

It's all a game.

 

[Grendel]

There's nothing wrong with giving those guys new contracts as we can't afford to replace them.

What should we do instead - get yet more youngsters into the team?

After listening to Mourinho over the years and recently Dalglish I've learned that managers say things to motivate their squad or for effect of other types.

It's all a game.

What about the underlined bit which you conveniently ignored. Good scouting success would you say - and his comments on Baker by the way sounded idiotic then and now are just off the scale of ridicule.

 

[Sick Boy]

What about the underlined bit which you conveniently ignored. Good scouting success would you say - and his comments on Baker by the way sounded idiotic then and now are just off the scale of ridicule.

This is starting to get painful.

 

[@richh87]

What about the underlined bit which you conveniently ignored. Good scouting success would you say - and his comments on Baker by the way sounded idiotic then and now are just off the scale of ridicule.

Depends how much they cost really. I actually think they're ok players. Not What you'd want for a playoff push, but certainly championship level. Both of them are talented.

 

[Otis]

Freddy is talented too.

Maybe we should give him another 4 year contract.

 

[Sick Boy]

Certain supporters are now making us the laughing stock of the football league.

Opposition fans can't believe it, I am now even getting texts taking the piss about those wanting to offer Thorn a 5 year contract. The WHU fans are having a lot of fun in particular.

 

[Otis]

Then switch your phone off.

 

[WillieStanley]

Oh, that's what's making us a laughing stock this week.

I can't wait for the next installment of "Reasons To Laugh At Coventry"
I wish people would stop getting so embarrassed by the club they support.

 

[We'll_live_and_die]

Certain supporters are now making us the laughing stock of the football league.

Opposition fans can't believe it, I am now even getting texts taking the piss about those wanting to offer Thorn a 5 year contract. The WHU fans are having a lot of fun in particular.

Where have WHU fans heard that our fans are suggesting this? I've not even heard about this myself.