Managers and Trends (1 Viewer)

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 9, 2015

There comes a time, when it's not coincidental if all managers fail. Taking away the ones who have a pretty consistent track record of failure (Boothroyd) with a spike at Watford we have:

Peter Reid led Man City to their highest league positions until the money started rolling in, did the same for Sunderland, and inspired Leeds to avoid relegation a season when they were down and out;
Micky Adams has a track record of promotions, including Leicester into the top flight;
Iain Dowie led Palace into the top flight and (more importantly?) got Oldham challenging for the play-offs when they were in crisis;
Chris Coleman kept Fulham up against the odds.

They're the ones who've hung around for some kind of length of time (OK, Reid wasn't here long!) and, like it or not, none of them were wet-behind-the-ears dismal failures, they all had 'pedigree' of sorts.

Come here, and they're all sacked in the end.

Now it could be that the manager's life is doomed to end that way, but it's also undeniable the path is downwards.

The question then has to be asked, does it actually matter who we have in charge? They'll maybe have a positive blip (Robins, Pressley) but the wise will get out if they have a chance during that blip, as it'll be the exception rather than the rule.

So why waste cash on bringing in another new man with his own ideas on new players?

rupert_bear · Feb 9, 2015

Because Pressley is becoming a provern failure, which will spread into the dressing room, players soon suss that out. A new broom with the same players will imo turn things around, these players are not that bad, it's just the way they are being set up

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 9, 2015

rupert_bear said:
Because Pressley is becoming a provern failure, which will spread into the dressing room, players soon suss that out. A new broom with the same players will imo turn things around, these players are not that bad, it's just the way they are being set up

...in the short term, maybe.

But then what happens next season? And the season after that?

The evidence is clear the team manager is not necessarily the issue.

Colonel Mustard · Feb 9, 2015

A sad and true story. But to be fair, it's a small sample size at present - 10 managers have been and gone since Strachan, rather than a hundred.

There's also been a bit of 'right place, wrong time' - imagine if Nilsson and Money and Black had been given the same amount of time as Coleman, Adams or Pressley. Perhaps we'd be looking back on four sacked managers rather than ten. We had one regime too eager to change, and now one too reluctant to do so.

Sheer odds say that the tide must change at some point. We'll get a manager with the results of Robins and the loyalty of Pressley.

rupert_bear · Feb 9, 2015

It is at the moment, and it is the here and now that's the concern, worry about next year, next year. These players either can't or won't do it for the manager, I suspect the latter. To stay up that has to be eradicated and easyist solution is replacing the manager

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 9, 2015

rupert_bear said:
It is at the moment, and it is the here and now that's the concern, worry about next year, next year.

The time to worry about the future is now, otherwise the same mistakes are repeated time and time again.

And we must have run out of new clothes by now, surely.

rupert_bear · Feb 9, 2015

Are you saying Steven Pressley is okay then ?

Grendel · Feb 9, 2015

Pressley is taking the club down do has to go.

Reid and Adams were on a downward cycle when they joined is and dowie built a reputation on one season.

However - Waggot must go as well as his recruitment strategy has been an abject failure.

Godiva · Feb 9, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
...in the short term, maybe.

But then what happens next season? And the season after that?

The evidence is clear the team manager is not necessarily the issue.

Losing becomes a habit - almost an addiction. Something drastic is needed to break out of a vicious circle. In the end that 'something' is by default the sacking of the manager.

The 'new manager effect' is statistically lasting 6 games, then wears off.
So send Pressley on a 6 week vacation and hire a caretaker for that period.
Welcome him back when the team is out of the losing habit.

bringbackrattles · Feb 9, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
There comes a time, when it's not coincidental if all managers fail. Taking away the ones who have a pretty consistent track record of failure (Boothroyd) with a spike at Watford we have:

Peter Reid led Man City to their highest league positions until the money started rolling in, did the same for Sunderland, and inspired Leeds to avoid relegation a season when they were down and out;

Micky Adams has a track record of promotions, including Leicester into the top flight;

Iain Dowie led Palace into the top flight and (more importantly?) got Oldham challenging for the play-offs when they were in crisis;

Chris Coleman kept Fulham up against the odds.

They're the ones who've hung around for some kind of length of time (OK, Reid wasn't here long!) and, like it or not, none of them were wet-behind-the-ears dismal failures, they all had 'pedigree' of sorts.

Come here, and they're all sacked in the end.

Now it could be that the manager's life is doomed to end that way, but it's also undeniable the path is downwards.

The question then has to be asked, does it actually matter who we have in charge? They'll maybe have a positive blip (Robins, Pressley) but the wise will get out if they have a chance during that blip, as it'll be the exception rather than the rule.

So why waste cash on bringing in another new man with his own ideas on new players?

It has always intrigued me how some managers earn a reputation in football all based on having one good season on their CV's.
Coleman had one good campaign at Fulham,Dowie got Palace up and lived off that,Reid at Sunderland,and like you say Boothroyd had one good season at Watford.Then you have great players like Bryan Robson,Roy Keane,Stuart Pearce,who because of their talents on the pitch have got manager jobs ahead of more experienced ones,and lets face it have been rubbish at managing clubs.Sounness is always on short lists all on him winning the League Cup at Liverpool but as good as a footballer he was I don't rate him as a manager/coach.Managers are just like players they're all a gamble just mention Butcher and McAllister !

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 9, 2015

rupert_bear said:
Are you saying Steven Pressley is okay then ?

I'm saying the manager is the symptom, not the cause.

The evidence is there in black and white. If it was as simple as change the manager, we'd have been back in the top flight in no time as soon as we got rid of Strachan/Nilsson/McAllister/Black/Reid/Adams/Dowie/Coleman/Boothroyd.

We'd also now be back in the championship, having seen Thorne and Robins go.

Covstu · Feb 9, 2015

I take the point of the OP to a certain extent, clearly SP has no tactical ability and tries to get a bunch of League 1 losers to play like Barca but aside from that the club doesnt have the infrastructure to support a new manager coming in. We dont really know who pulls the strings for starters, we dont know what free reign the manager has on hiring and firing to influence the position we are in.

Having said all that, if a new manager can keep our head above water for this season then lets do it!

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 9, 2015

Coleman had more than one good campaign at Fulham, and was doing OK at Sociedad, marital affairs notwithstanding. It's only really with us he's failed and, arguably, his failure was his first full season when he actually had a budget; after that he was in the position of making do. I pointed out Dowie's reputation was actually made at Oldham, a club in severe crisis who he got winning consistently. I also pointed out Reid, who's only blemish before us was a half season at basket case Leeds.

They *all* had a decent track record. They can't *all* happen to have been found out after coming to us, as that would be too much of a coincidence.

italiahorse · Feb 9, 2015

I think we have a manager and players on the cheap and in the end you only get what you pay for.
Pay peanuts get monkeys ?

lewys33 · Feb 9, 2015

Whilst I agree with the point you are trying to make, what if it were a "blip" from a new manager which saved our season?

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 9, 2015

lewys33 said:
Whilst I agree with the point you are trying to make, what if it were a "blip" from a new manager which saved our season?

If it's only a blip, then all it does is delay the inevitable.

Hindsight's wonderful, but we'd have probably, long term, been better off being relegated from the top flight when Middlesbrough got deducted their three points, and probably better off being relegated from Div 2 in the Reid season.

Continually fighting against the tide erods the foundations, increases the backwards momentum, which is then harder to fight against.

Ashdown · Feb 9, 2015

The club has been on the downslide since the millennium, finances have been dire, outside parties have had to step in to breach shortfalls like in the Ricoh build and again when the current custodians came in 2007. There is a whole failing culture about the place and many people have been held up as the sacrificial lambs to appease the masses in the short term. The demise of the club sort of reflects the whole City to a degree with so many of our major manufacturing operations closing down over the last 20 years. Like it or loath it Coventry has become one big university campus in a suburb of Greater Birmingham and it's sports teams all also live in the shadow of their neighbours now.

Evo1883 · Feb 9, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
There comes a time, when it's not coincidental if all managers fail. Taking away the ones who have a pretty consistent track record of failure (Boothroyd) with a spike at Watford we have:

Peter Reid led Man City to their highest league positions until the money started rolling in, did the same for Sunderland, and inspired Leeds to avoid relegation a season when they were down and out;

Micky Adams has a track record of promotions, including Leicester into the top flight;

Iain Dowie led Palace into the top flight and (more importantly?) got Oldham challenging for the play-offs when they were in crisis;

Chris Coleman kept Fulham up against the odds.

They're the ones who've hung around for some kind of length of time (OK, Reid wasn't here long!) and, like it or not, none of them were wet-behind-the-ears dismal failures, they all had 'pedigree' of sorts.

Come here, and they're all sacked in the end.

Now it could be that the manager's life is doomed to end that way, but it's also undeniable the path is downwards.

The question then has to be asked, does it actually matter who we have in charge? They'll maybe have a positive blip (Robins, Pressley) but the wise will get out if they have a chance during that blip, as it'll be the exception rather than the rule.

So why waste cash on bringing in another new man with his own ideas on new players?

Basically sticking with pressley is like a married couple that stay together for the kids sake , in for a life of misery

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 9, 2015

CraigSBA said:
Basically sticking with pressley is like a married couple that stay together for the kids sake , in for a life of misery

As opposed to nobbing around a bunch of psychotic crack addicts, where you end up riddled with STDs and see your car, house and wallet nicked?

Evo1883 · Feb 9, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
As opposed to nobbing around a bunch of psychotic crack addicts, where you end up riddled with STDs and see your car, house and wallet nicked?

Yes , because thats the life all single people lead , i should have just replied dafuq

ccfcway · Feb 9, 2015

Colonel Mustard said:
Sheer odds say that the tide must change at some point. We'll get a manager with the results of Robins and the loyalty of Pressley.

Loyalty ?

Evo1883 · Feb 9, 2015

ccfcway said:
Loyalty ?

Yes you know , that mysterious job offer from huddersfield that never happened but people somehow think it did

covcity4life · Feb 9, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
...in the short term, maybe.

But then what happens next season? And the season after that?

The evidence is clear the team manager is not necessarily the issue.

the one time we bucked the trend and didnt sack the manager was with andy thorn. and that got us relegated.

short team boosts kept cov in championship long term.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Feb 9, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Coleman had more than one good campaign at Fulham, and was doing OK at Sociedad, marital affairs notwithstanding. It's only really with us he's failed and, arguably, his failure was his first full season when he actually had a budget; after that he was in the position of making do. I pointed out Dowie's reputation was actually made at Oldham, a club in severe crisis who he got winning consistently. I also pointed out Reid, who's only blemish before us was a half season at basket case Leeds.

They *all* had a decent track record. They can't *all* happen to have been found out after coming to us, as that would be too much of a coincidence.

I do think looking back we had over expectations of some of them

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 9, 2015

CraigSBA said:
Yes , because thats the life all single people lead , i should have just replied dafuq

And married couples never have rocky periods that work themselves out, they're all doomed to failure as soon as things go wrong slightly.

Evo1883 · Feb 9, 2015

End of the day our supporters or at least some still hold this weird torch for pressley , it happened because his poor management has been overshadowed by our poor owners , he wouldve been out of a job at any othrr club by now

ccfcway · Feb 9, 2015

CCFC said:
I do think looking back we had over expectations of some of them

We are the absolute opposite to that now.

I am amazed that many on here seemed to be content with a 1-0 loss to Preston, as it wasnt as bad as we thought it might be.

Evo1883 · Feb 9, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
And married couples never have rocky periods that work themselves out, they're all doomed to failure as soon as things go wrong slightly.

Oh no im talking about when the marriage is completely fucked , like pressleys managerial reign , it wont get any better

Otis · Feb 9, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
There comes a time, when it's not coincidental if all managers fail. Taking away the ones who have a pretty consistent track record of failure (Boothroyd) with a spike at Watford we have:

Peter Reid led Man City to their highest league positions until the money started rolling in, did the same for Sunderland, and inspired Leeds to avoid relegation a season when they were down and out;

Micky Adams has a track record of promotions, including Leicester into the top flight;

Iain Dowie led Palace into the top flight and (more importantly?) got Oldham challenging for the play-offs when they were in crisis;

Chris Coleman kept Fulham up against the odds.

They're the ones who've hung around for some kind of length of time (OK, Reid wasn't here long!) and, like it or not, none of them were wet-behind-the-ears dismal failures, they all had 'pedigree' of sorts.

Come here, and they're all sacked in the end.

Now it could be that the manager's life is doomed to end that way, but it's also undeniable the path is downwards.

The question then has to be asked, does it actually matter who we have in charge? They'll maybe have a positive blip (Robins, Pressley) but the wise will get out if they have a chance during that blip, as it'll be the exception rather than the rule.

So why waste cash on bringing in another new man with his own ideas on new players?

Tend to agree with you, NW, but then if a manager is seemingly really, really poor, or appears to be on the way down the downward spiral, then I think it is wiser to get rid.

Of course it is hard to deduce exactly whether the man in question can turn things round given time. I do think Boothroyd, Dowie and Adams should all have been given more time. Reid had lost it for me and Coleman just seemed like a complete joke. I won't even begin to mention a certain Mr. Thorn.

As for Pressley, I backed him wholeheartedly, but it now would appear that the vast majority of fans have little faith in his tactical deployments and/or signings. I can forgive the signings to a degree, cos we all know the issues with money and budget etc., but the trend is very worrying in terms of fans consistently saying he's setting the stall out wrong and playing people out of position and deploying the wrong tactics.

I totally backed him, but then after Christmas I'm afraid I had to come down on the side of he needs to go.

For me it is all about the light at the end of the tunnel. If I can see a glimmer of what the manager is trying to build and I can see roots growing in the set up and style etc., then I am willing to give the man all the time he needs, even if that does mean relegation.

When a manager just doesn't seem to be taking the club forwards at all, no matter how small those steps may be, then I worry. And it's not just forwards incredibly slowly or sideways , but seemingly, it's the taking the club backwards.

I applaud SP for blooding youngsters and having fiath in them, but the tactical side of things is a major, major worry.

I really rated Robins and would have loved for him to stay and build something and I was hoping Pressley would be doing the same, but when we have a side that is creating so little up front and leaking goals like a rusty bucket at the back and our not addressing the main problem (that of centre midfield), then it is no wonder fans have finally had enough.

It's not straightforwards though at all and like I say, on the whole I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Evo1883 · Feb 9, 2015

And in regards to the OP , these other managers had pedigree yes , so there was that hope they could maybe turn things around or it would get better . What pedigree does pressley have ...2-3 years at an average scottish first division side that he never progressed at all , we really going to bank our league 1 status on a guy whose proven absolutely nothing as a manager

shy_tall_knight · Feb 9, 2015

There are some good points raised but of all the recent managers sacked by Cov who went on to another club and did well
Big Ron - no
Strachan - yes good at Saints average at Celtic (2 horse race) failedat M'boro
Nillson - not sure
McAllister - failed everywhere since
Black - never been a no.1 since
Reid - failed everywhere since
Adams - did ok at Vale, failed at Blades struggling with Tranmere
Dowie - did nothing since
Coleman - failed IMO since
Booth - failed at Cobblers
Thorn - failed as expected
Robbins - not sacked done OK since

jimmyhillsfanclub · Feb 9, 2015

Just sack him & appoint NO-ONE.....

...Belgium had no active or elected government for about 19 months and no-one really noticed or gave a shit....their daily lives, services & jobs continued uninterrupted & pretty much, unaffected....

Sack SP & announce that we will have NO MANAGER until 2016.
Standard coaching sessions to be taken by senior players on a rotational basis.
Let Oggy watch the sessions & then just pick the starting 11.

Bet you any money we'd see an instant improvement.....

...couldn't really get any worse could it?

Dimi_Konstantflapalot · Feb 9, 2015

Otis said:
Tend to agree with you, NW, but then if a manager is seemingly really, really poor, or appears to be on the way down the downward spiral, then I think it is wiser to get rid.

Of course it is hard to deduce exactly whether the man in question can turn things round given time. I do think Boothroyd, Dowie and Adams should all have been given more time. Reid had lost it for me and Coleman just seemed like a complete joke. I won't even begin to mention a certain Mr. Thorn.

As for Pressley, I backed him wholeheartedly, but it now would appear that the vast majority of fans have little faith in his tactical deployments and/or signings. I can forgive the signings to a degree, cos we all know the issues with money and budget etc., but the trend is very worrying in terms of fans consistently saying he's setting the stall out wrong and playing people out of position and deploying the wrong tactics.

I totally backed him, but then after Christmas I'm afraid I had to come down on the side of he needs to go.

For me it is all about the light at the end of the tunnel. If I can see a glimmer of what the manager is trying to build and I can see roots growing in the set up and style etc., then I am willing to give the man all the time he needs, even if that does mean relegation.

When a manager just doesn't seem to be taking the club forwards at all, no matter how small those steps may be, then I worry. And it's not just forwards incredibly slowly or sideways , but seemingly, it's the taking the club backwards.

I applaud SP for blooding youngsters and having fiath in them, but the tactical side of things is a major, major worry.

I really rated Robins and would have loved for him to stay and build something and I was hoping Pressley would be doing the same, but when we have a side that is creating so little up front and leaking goals like a rusty bucket at the back and our not addressing the main problem (that of centre midfield), then it is no wonder fans have finally had enough.

It's not straightforwards though at all and like I say, on the whole I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Agreed here - I backed him till Xmas and we have regressed further since then so I think the time has come now. His worrying lack of tactical nous (changing formation countless times etc) almost suggests that it was just down to us having good players going forward last season that kept us up rather than anything Pressley did. Now that we don't have that quality, he's been found out (as he was beginning to be towards the end of last season I suppose as well).

Colonel Mustard · Feb 9, 2015

ccfcway said:
Loyalty ?

Yep. That much is clear to me from Pressley's rhetoric about long-term refurbishment. I think his values are similar to Gordon Strachan's, and are commendable, regardless of performance.

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 9, 2015

Colonel Mustard said:
Yep. That much is clear to me from Pressley's rhetoric about long-term refurbishment. I think his values are similar to Gordon Strachan's, and are commendable, regardless of performance.

The problem is, the overwhelming number of loans contradicts that.

Again, given how anti-loans Pressley was start of last season he's either:

a) mad (possible, he agreed to come here despite everything after all!) or;

b) lacks control to manage as he sees fit.

If the former, would you trust the people who appointed him to get it right next time? If the latter, then anyone coming in will have no more luck.

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