Mark Labovitch re administration (1 Viewer)

Grendel · Mar 13, 2013

theferret said:
The rent alone accounted for 1/6 of turnover, which in the year to May 2012 was £7,782,519.

That doesn't include other direct income (match fees, car parking etc.), and also the indirect income it gets from having CCFC there.

Put it this way, my company uses the Ricoh to hold training and business meetings. It won't be in future (whether the club stay or not). I use the casino before and after every home game, so that would stop. You wonder if the club going would have much impact of the casino operator and if they would attempt to renegotiate their tenancy when it came up for renewal? I'm willing to bet that the 25 days where CCFC play at home are amongst their most lucrative. Another unknown really.

The true value to ACL of the stadium being home to CCFC is very hard to put a figure on.

It's impossible to put a figure on but the notion it will have no impact other than rent revenue is pie in the sky.

I too have a similar view on the main sponsor. Seem to really annoy someone at the time I recall. It is not just then either. The main exhibition hall is sponsored by another company who were definitely initially attracted by the football club. Comparisons to LG and. O2 are invalid. These are long established performance venues.

People mention alternative sporting teams to take our place but again all very easy in theory but very difficult in practice. Also to attract new clients ACL would have to recruit a new management team for that express purpose. The fact they are largely a council subsidised company will hamper dynamism as private companies normally are more reactionary.

Agree with the conference favity comments as well. We no longer use the venue. It is poor and in decline.

Grendel · Mar 13, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
Are you Grenduffy in disguise?
.

So yesterday i am Dubai sky blue and today another identity.

Or could in just be there are others on here with balanced and intelligent views not just one eyed warped logic?

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Mar 13, 2013

Grendel said:
So yesterday i am Dubai sky blue and today another identity.

Or could in just be there are others on here with balanced and intelligent views not just one eyed warped logic?

You almost had me with you for a second then, before claiming that the balanced and intelligent could share and therefore mimick your ideology

torchomatic · Mar 13, 2013

I'd certainly rather lose the points this season.

oldskyblue58 said:
just for info.................... for 10 point deduction to take effect this season should we go in to administration it needs to be done before 28/03/13 (fourth Thursday in March)

SkyblueBazza · Mar 13, 2013

ashbyjan said:
Never said it made sense OSB just reporting what Trust has been told - up to people to decide if they believe it or support it or think its madness. As already stated the only sane solution is for the respective parties to get back round the table with an arbitrator and sort the whole sorry mess out once and for all, for the good of all the supporters who are heartily sick of the whole sorry affair.

Supporters? Like, who gives a Kipper's-cock about them???

theferret · Mar 13, 2013

Grendel said:
Agree with the conference favity comments as well. We no longer use the venue. It is poor and in decline.

This.

Either they don't have much money or the place is being chronically mismanaged.

The company I do a lot of sub-contract work for are a) not renewing their croporate box at CCFC next season, mainly because of the appalling service they get from ACL employees on matchday and b) have stopped using it for business meetings altogether for much the same reason.

I used it once for my company, but never again. The client I took was amazed at how scruffy the place was, and he was equally amazed at the hoops we had to jump through just to open the fucking window, a room which had no air-con and a ropey wifi signal at best.

The whole place is in sorry state, the external areas are an embarrassment. Zero effort at external landscaping - they are bleak and windswept and more reminiscent of Leningrad circa 1980 than they are a dynamic and modern place to do business.

The litter around all parts of the complex, notably around the parts that are most visible to passing motorists, is disgraceful. And they wonder why people don't want to stage exhibitions there? Absolute shit hole. It stinks of council run facility.

SkyblueBazza · Mar 13, 2013

theferret said:
This.

Either they don't have much money or the place is being chronically mismanaged.

The company I do a lot of sub-contract work for are a) not renewing their croporate box at CCFC next season, mainly because of the appalling service they get from ACL employees on matchday and b) have stopped using it for business meetings altogether for much the same reason.

I used it once for my company, but never again. The client I took was amazed at how scruffy the place was, and he equally amazed at the hoops we had to jump through just to open the fecking window, a room which had no air-con and a ropey wifi signal at best.

The whole place is in sorry state, the external areas are an embarrassment. Zero effort at external landscaping - they are bleak and windswept and more reminiscent of Leningrad circa 1980 than they are a dynamic and modern place to do business.

The litter around all parts of the complex, notably around the parts that are most visible to passing motorists, is disgraceful. And they wonder why people don't want to stage exhibitions there? Absolute shit hole. It stinks of council run facility.

Do you like it though? Lol

Flying Fokker · Mar 13, 2013

So why use a forum like this to make comments about the Ricoh rather then directly with ACL?

theferret · Mar 13, 2013

Flying Fokker said:
So why use a forum like this to make comments about the Ricoh rather then directly with ACL?

How do you know I haven't?

I say this now here only because it is relevant to the discussion.

Grendel · Mar 13, 2013

Flying Fokker said:
So why use a forum like this to make comments about the Ricoh rather then directly with ACL?

Why use this forum to talk about ACL at all?

Flying Fokker · Mar 13, 2013

Oh, I forget we are dissing ACL today...They are crap, always will be and have robbed the club blind over the years.

Grendel · Mar 13, 2013

Flying Fokker said:
Oh, I forget we are dissing ACL today...They are crap, always will be and have robbed the club blind over the years.

Your last statement is beyond dispute. I have direct experience with ACL and so has the ferret. We agree the service provided is poor.

His analogy regarding 80's Russia is spot on. It is souless and dispiriting.

oakey · Mar 13, 2013

theferret said:
This.

Either they don't have much money or the place is being chronically mismanaged.

The company I do a lot of sub-contract work for are a) not renewing their croporate box at CCFC next season, mainly because of the appalling service they get from ACL employees on matchday and b) have stopped using it for business meetings altogether for much the same reason.

I used it once for my company, but never again. The client I took was amazed at how scruffy the place was, and he was equally amazed at the hoops we had to jump through just to open the fecking window, a room which had no air-con and a ropey wifi signal at best.

The whole place is in sorry state, the external areas are an embarrassment. Zero effort at external landscaping - they are bleak and windswept and more reminiscent of Leningrad circa 1980 than they are a dynamic and modern place to do business.

The litter around all parts of the complex, notably around the parts that are most visible to passing motorists, is disgraceful. And they wonder why people don't want to stage exhibitions there? Absolute shit hole. It stinks of council run facility.

You should try working in a school. The corporate bits of the Ricoh are like a luxury hotel in comparison!
Can't believe how pampered business people expect to be!

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Mar 13, 2013

Grendel said:
Your last statement is beyond dispute. I have direct experience with ACL and so has the ferret. We agree the service provided is poor.

His analogy regarding 80's Russia is spot on. It is souless and dispiriting.

There are many tens of thousands who have also watched them attract and host world class artists who speak very highly of The Arena and it's facilities.

Meanwhile, there are 10,000 folk who 'enjoy' a first hand interaction with SISU every week or so, who don't subscribe to your love-in

fernandopartridge · Mar 13, 2013

oakey said:
You should try working in a school. The corporate bits of the Ricoh are like a luxury hotel in comparison!
Can't believe how pampered business people expect to be!

You pay good money for a conference venue you expect something decent.

The Ricoh is competing with, in my experience, a top class venue at the University of Warwick, it needs to really up the ante if the experience is as poor as ferret says it is.

theferret · Mar 13, 2013

oakey said:
You should try working in a school. The corporate bits of the Ricoh are like a luxury hotel in comparison!
Can't believe how pampered business people expect to be!

It's as much about service as anything else. The whole set-up seems a bit amateurish. Some elements are fine, and the main atrium and entrance is impressive. Scratch at the surface and it is sorely lacking though.

No excuse for the state of the external areas. Plant some trees ffs, lay turf where there is exposed soil, and for heaven's sake clear up the litter. I walked up there the other day around the back of the exhibition hall. There was stuff everywhere, the bins were overflowing, there were crates lying about and at least a week's build up of coffee cups and cigarette butts by the smoking shelter. This is a route many business visitors will take from the car park to main entrance, and there really is no excuse for getting the basics like that wrong.

torchomatic · Mar 13, 2013

There's nothing more impressive than a gang of employees smoking and texting.

theferret said:
It's as much about service as anything else. The whole set-up seems a bit amateurish. Some elements are fine, and the main atrium and entrance is impressive. Scratch at the surface and it is sorely lacking though.

No excuse for the state of the external areas. Plant some trees ffs, lay turf where there is exposed soil, and for heaven's sake clear up the litter. I walked up there the other day around the back of the exhibition hall. There was stuff everywhere, the bins were overflowing, there were crates lying about and at least a week's build up of coffee cups and cigarette butts by the smoking shelter. This is a route many business visitors will take from the car park to main entrance, and there really is no excuse for getting the basics like that wrong.

oakey · Mar 13, 2013

We haven't had hot water or drinking water in the building I work in ... For 4 years.
I might start crying over a bit of litter in a minute.

torchomatic · Mar 13, 2013

But I don't suppose your school sells itself as an international conference venue. Or maybe it does.

oakey said:
We haven't had hot water or drinking water in the building I work in ... For 4 years.
I might start crying over a bit of litter in a minute.

corniepaste · Mar 13, 2013

coundonskyblue said:
If this were to happen is worth noting that a 10 point deduction would still be applied, as its basically what Saints tried to get away with.

I thought a points deduction applies to the following season?, so it wouldn't effect this seasons points anyway.

theferret · Mar 13, 2013

oakey said:
We haven't had hot water or drinking water in the building I work in ... For 4 years.
I might start crying over a bit of litter in a minute.

What has that got to do with anything? Leave the litter where it is chaps, and if customers moan, just tell them to feck off to the NEC because Oakey works in a run down school so they should be grateful. Incredible logic.

It was ACL who a few months ago were bemoaning the fact they were struggling to attract the number of business events and exhibitions they could reasonably accommodate. They are operating way below capacity on that front.

Given the choice of opting for a venue with pleasant surroundings and good service. it isn't any wonder businesses go elsewhere. That is my point. No skin off my nose anyway.

Flying Fokker · Mar 13, 2013

LarryGrayson said:
if only they singed off there accounts lol

I have a box of England's glory if they need them

oakey · Mar 13, 2013

Ferret, I'm yanking your chain. Calm down bud.
I take your point that it may be below the standard expected, and paid for, by corporates.
Just a different world than mine.

And, yes, my school does Market itself to hold training events ... But teachers get excited when there is a clean cup and a biscuit. So the bar is set quite low!

coundonskyblue · Mar 13, 2013

Corporate areas are the responsibility of ccfc on matchdays.

BurbageSkyBlues · Mar 13, 2013

theferret said:
Not true. Has nothing to do with prestige, and everything to do with logistics and timing. Open air concerts are no good in Britain in the winter - so you have a very limited window of opportunity with summer gigs. Many big international stars tend to tour Europe in the winter so they will use indoor venues. They also tend to do more venues/dates on arena tours (ie some acts prefer to do lots of gigs to smaller audiences rather than 4 or 5 stadium dates).

Stadium concert tours are very expensive to put on and you have to pretty much guarantee to sell out the venues to make a decent return. Very few acts will do a UK stadium tour in the summer, there might only be 4 or 5 acts doing stadium tours in any given year, and the Ricoh tends to get the best of them. Muse and Springsteen are the big tours this year, and the Ricoh has both.

But that's the point, 2 or 3 stadium gigs a year is about the most you are ever going to get, and the indoor venue cannot compete with the LG or NIA, or even the Nottingham Ice Centre, and so will only ever be a very occasional concert venue. All this begs the question, what else can the stadium be used for?

Simple really - if the future of the Ricoh did depend upon attracting more events throughout all weathers, put a roof on it.....

Grendel · Mar 13, 2013

BurbageSkyBlues said:
Simple really - if the future of the Ricoh did depend upon attracting more events throughout all weathers, put a roof on it.....

Indeed who will find the £30 million - the taxpayer? To do what host Bon jovi every other year?

oakey · Mar 13, 2013

BTW, saw 2 young chaps in suits at last year's legends day sit down, scoff the food, ignore everyone else,talk through the MC introduction of old players, then they left at about 2.30.
This is why some of us have little respect for corporates and their ilk.

torchomatic · Mar 13, 2013

Bryan Richardson had a cunning plan to put a roof on. Or do I mean he's a cunning, scheming, thieving son of a gun*? One of those.

*Edited to take the naughty word out.

Grendel said:
Indeed who will find the £30 million - the taxpayer? To do what host Bon jovi every other year?

Jack Griffin · Mar 13, 2013

I notice a new trend here, ferrett & Genduffy trying to establish a myth that the Ricoh conference facilities are "'poor and in decline. "

MORE BOLLOCKS! please itemise the rationale.. I don't think you have any real basis for such a slur.. come on show me, lets see some pictures of worn furniture, tatty decor or something CONCRETE to substantiate this argument.. frankly I don't believe it for a minute.

torchomatic · Mar 13, 2013

I'm still waiting for the evidence that SISU will buy the Arena, develop the land then liquidate the Club. I seem to read that quite a bit on here.

You can see the cigarette butts and litter for yourself. No need for photographic evidence.

Jack Griffin said:
I notice a new trend here, ferrett & Genduffy trying to establish a myth that the Ricoh conference facilities are "'poor and in decline. "

MORE BOLLOCKS! please itemise the rationale.. I don't think you have any real basis for such a slur.. come on show me, lets see some pictures of worn furniture, tatty decor or something CONCRETE to substantiate this argument.. frankly I don't believe it for a minute.

Grendel · Mar 13, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
I notice a new trend here, ferrett & Genduffy trying to establish a myth that the Ricoh conference facilities are "'poor and in decline. "

MORE BOLLOCKS! please itemise the rationale.. I don't think you have any real basis for such a slur.. come on show me, lets see some pictures of worn furniture, tatty decor or something CONCRETE to substantiate this argument.. frankly I don't believe it for a minute.

Have you ever used the "facilities" for a management conference?

grego_gee · Mar 13, 2013

theferret said:
The rent alone accounted for 1/6 of turnover, which in the year to May 2012 was £7,782,519.

That doesn't include other direct income (match fees, car parking etc.), and also the indirect income it gets from having CCFC there.

Put it this way, my company uses the Ricoh to hold training and business meetings. It won't be in future (whether the club stay or not). I use the casino before and after every home game, so that would stop. You wonder if the club going would have much impact of the casino operator and if they would attempt to renegotiate their tenancy when it came up for renewal? I'm willing to bet that the 25 days where CCFC play at home are amongst their most lucrative. Another unknown really.
The true value to ACL of the stadium being home to CCFC is very hard to put a figure on.

'ang on a minute!
I smell two rats here.....
1. Turnover to may 2012, 7.7m is that boosted by any part payments for the Olympics one off?
2. your calculation of the rent being one sixth must be based on the "old" rent of 1.2m. Even though ACL are still trying to get it- they won't. No "new" rent has been agreed, CCFC say 170,000 is the average for L1, Even ACL have said they would agree 400,000.

What would the ACL turnover be without the one off Olympics? The "new" rent say 200,000 is unlikely to be a significant help to keep ACL afloat after paying the repayments on the 14m council loan! So I hope for their sake that the confidence they undoubtedly feel after the one-off boost of the Olyimpics is not clouding their (and the councils!) vision on their future viability.

imp:

shropshirecov · Mar 13, 2013

The whole place could be run so much better. I'm sure I read somewhere that parts of the complex have been sold off separately, I could be wrong.

Jack Griffin · Mar 13, 2013

Grendel said:
Have you ever used the "facilities" for a management conference?

Which one did you book?

oldskyblue58 · Mar 13, 2013

grego .................. accounts go to 31st May 2012 .............. the Olympics were in August 2012

CCFC rent in 2012 ACL figs = approx 17%

if new rent at 400k and all other income same then Turnover would be around 6.9m and rent for ccfc would be approx 6% of total

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