Marvin Sordel and his thoughts on depression (1 Viewer)

dadgad · Sep 15, 2018

What Sordell is identifying is a tabu.
Society, and particularly men have been inculcated to ‘man up’ and deny their feelings. If a club proactively employs a full-time counsellor then immediately that ruinous culture is kicked into touch. Counsellors are trained to be confidential.
Any supposition that people would be ‘shy’ about a session of let’s say, mindfulness or cbt, isn’t really getting the point.
We can only respond to our environment and if that environment welcomes these initiatives then the participant’s mindset changes in tandem with the culture.

That’s all Sordell is saying and he’s right, 100%.

dadgad · Sep 15, 2018

Another thing.
Drink, cocaine and gambling are people self medicating due to some unresolved issue, an anxiety that can become extremely debilitating if it isn’t resolved.
The intervention of psychological help early on wards off a problem that very quickly becomes physiological.
How long would George Best’s career have lasted if he’d been able to reach a counsellor who could have given him this insight?
Not having counsellors cost clubs ££££.

Nick · Sep 15, 2018

dadgad said:
Another thing.
Drink, cocaine and gambling are people self medicating due to some unresolved issue, an anxiety that can become extremely debilitating if it isn’t resolved.
The intervention of psychological help early on wards off a problem that very quickly becomes physiological.
How long would George Best’s career have lasted if he’d been able to reach a counsellor who could have given him this insight?
Not having counsellors cost clubs ££££.

I wasn't trying to say people shouldn't be helped, it's just for example if a player is drinking or having a bit of coke they might feel more willing to tell somebody independent rather than somebody at the club.

It could be some sort of monthly workshop where somebody goes into clubs and speaks to the players to explain what its about, how it can help and just have a chat. Then the door is there where the player can arrange a session with them or somebody similar from an approved list from the PFA or something like that.

Samo · Sep 15, 2018

Nick said:
I wasn't trying to say people shouldn't be helped, it's just for example if a player is drinking or having a bit of coke they might feel more willing to tell somebody independent rather than somebody at the club.

It could be some sort of monthly workshop where somebody goes into clubs and speaks to the players to explain what its about, how it can help and just have a chat. Then the door is there where the player can arrange a session with them or somebody similar from an approved list from the PFA or something like that.

Mental health in the workplace is a buzz topic and there will be legislation coming to force employers to better care for staff. Football clubs are employers just like any other business and need to do better. There should be a whole range of interventions coming into clubs including training, information points/events, counselling and other types of 1to1 support, etc. Clubs should be rewarded by the FL for reaching/maintaining good standards of mental health/wellbeing care for their staff, and that shouldn't be just the prized assets, that should be ALL staff. And clubs need to realize that it's in their interests to do this... all the stats on this show that if you look after your staff they lose less sick time and are more productive whilst at work. Organisations investing in staff wellbeing actually save money.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Sep 15, 2018

Nick said:
It's not the same, don't get me wrong in the ideal world it should be but realistically it's not.

I am not saying nobody would see them, I am saying for the reasons stated people may not want to. If I had a counsellor at work that I saw day in, day out and knew all of my workmates and my boss then I'd feel less inclined to open up to them (especially if it was work related) than I would if it was a random independent counsellor.

If a counsellor was employed by the same people as I was, I'd feel less inclined to be totally honest if I had issues at work / my boss / the company. If for example I was gambling or drinking too much I'd feel more comfortable telling somebody independent this than somebody at work who I'd see every day.

A counsellor at every club may well help for some, others it might not.

It would be a licensed professional still, conversations would be protected by confidentiality or the therapist would lose their license. And I'd imagined they are trained to be discreet and keep there personal distance and maintain professionalism.

It's not like the counsellor would be speaking to players in the day and then go down the pub later to have a few pints with the lads to tell everyone about his day at work.

And whilst you say it's up to the person to make the first move and ask for help. These people are trained to get people to open up and trust them, they know the right questions to ask. There are many people who may actually want help but may be too scared/ashamed/embarassed to ask for it and mandatory sessions with a trained professional will make it easier for these people to open up and talk if they want to.

stupot07 · Sep 15, 2018

SkyBlue_Bear83 said:
It would be a licensed professional still, conversations would be protected by confidentiality or the therapist would lose their license. And I'd imagined they are trained to be discreet and keep there personal distance and maintain professionalism.

It's not like the counsellor would be speaking to players in the day and then go down the pub later to have a few pints with the lads to tell everyone about his day at work.

And whilst you say it's up to the person to make the first move and ask for help. These people are trained to get people to open up and trust them, they know the right questions to ask. There are many people who may actually want help but may be too scared/ashamed/embarassed to ask for it and mandatory sessions with a trained professional will make it easier for these people to open up and talk if they want to.

Lots of sports employ sports psychologists, British Cycling in particular. If they were around and accessible in football clubs, the players would use them.

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Samo · Sep 15, 2018

stupot07 said:
Lots of sports employ sports psychologists, British Cycling in particular. If they were around and accessible in football clubs, the players would use them.

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This is a different thing entirely Stu, you are talking about enhanced performance through a sorts psychologist not help with a mental health issue.

stupot07 · Sep 16, 2018

Samo said:
This is a different thing entirely Stu, you are talking about enhanced performance through a sorts psychologist not help with a mental health issue.

They are 2 sides of the same coin, poor mental health impacts on confidence/performance and vice versa. Its about having thay initial conversation with someone who and whilst theor primary specialism is sports performance they will be also licensed therapists/psychiatrists, etc I can't remember who's autobiography it was (could be trescothics), but they had battled with mental health and it was a conversation with Steve Peters that opened up the path to getting proper treatment,etc. Football clubs also have doctors, and they are the first port of call for the majority of us if we suffer poor mental health.

They also need to do more at academy level so that talking about mental health isn't a weakness and just normal.

Whilst I understand no one wants their issues in the public domain, I was disappointed with Pidgeley's response to his issues with mental health coming out. We need more people talking about it to take the stigma away.

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Samo · Sep 16, 2018

stupot07 said:
They are 2 sides of the same coin, poor mental health impacts on confidence/performance and vice versa. Its about having thay initial conversation with someone who and whilst theor primary specialism is sports performance they will be also licensed therapists/psychiatrists, etc I can't remember who's autobiography it was (could be trescothics), but they had battled with mental health and it was a conversation with Steve Peters that opened up the path to getting proper treatment,etc. Football clubs also have doctors, and they are the first port of call for the majority of us if we suffer poor mental health.

They also need to do more at academy level so that talking about mental health isn't a weakness and just normal.

Whilst I understand no one wants their issues in the public domain, I was disappointed with Pidgeley's response to his issues with mental health coming out. We need more people talking about it to take the stigma away.

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We'll have to agree to disagree that the 2 things are sides of a coin; performance can be enhanced in someone who is perfectly happy and has no history of poor mental health. But of course the 2 things are sometimes linked. Fully agree with the rest of your post though.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 16, 2018

stupot07 said:
I was disappointed with Pidgeley's response to his issues with mental health coming out. We need more people talking about it to take the stigma away.

Hmmm, tbf he's quite within his rights to want privacy and not talk about it if that's what he's comfortable with. People are people, and deal with things in different ways.

dadgad · Sep 16, 2018

"We need more people talking about it to take the stigma away."
Correct.
Fifty years ago homosexuality was tabu and this caused misery for millions. Same with mental health today.
The sinister development is the over medicalisation of something which should be regarded as part and parcel of every day life.
Society will only be able to deal with this ethically and sensibly with greater awareness of all the associated issues.
it is good to talk,

TheDube · Sep 17, 2018

stupot07 said:
Whilst I understand no one wants their issues in the public domain, I was disappointed with Pidgeley's response to his issues with mental health coming out. We need more people talking about it to take the stigma away.

It's not the clubs "news" to break and was completely out of line for any club to come out the way they did. It's a perfect example of why players wouldn't or won't want to approach a professional of any sort around the topic of depression.

stupot07 · Sep 17, 2018

TheDube said:
It's not the clubs "news" to break and was completely out of line for any club to come out the way they did. It's a perfect example of why players wouldn't or won't want to approach a professional of any sort around the topic of depression.

I wholly agree.

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fernandopartridge · Sep 17, 2018

Nick said:
That's sort of what I meant as well.

If somebody was at Ryton full time, it wouldn't be a case of them watching the players and saying "X and Y are depressed" and saying "you have depression, come and talk to me" like a nutritionist or physio can say "you arent eating right" etc.

At the point where the player is actively thinking "I need help" then they should be able to approach the PFA who will then have a list of therapists / councillors in their area who they can go to who may be a specialist and can relate to sports people more.

I think one at every club is a bit extreme.

It's about having the help at hand, the player maybe more likely to open up to a friendly face who may also have a degree of understanding about the pressures on footballers.

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