Meeting with Joy Seppala & Dave Boddy - Thursday 27th February 2020 (1 Viewer)

[shmmeee]

I think a lot of the time stadiums are held in separate holding companies, I don't think that would be unusual. Wasps certainly do it. The point is more the revenue it brings in. We aren't the only sports club to think it's important, Wasps bought the Ricoh for the same reason.

I mean technically Wasps don’t own the Ricoh either. Getting hung up on tenure is less important than the details of any lease is my point.

 

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[Grendel]

I think a lot of the time stadiums are held in separate holding companies, I don't think that would be unusual. Wasps certainly do it. The point is more the revenue it brings in. We aren't the only sports club to think it's important, Wasps bought the Ricoh for the same reason.

You’d never put a stadium under direct club ownership as the asset has to be protected separately

 

[tisza]

I mean yeah. But equally don’t be under any impression we’ll get told anything other than what suits each sides agenda. None of the groups have to talk to anyone and will only choose to do so if they think it helps them further their aims. There’s a little naivety about that from some on here sometimes.

Don't think anyone should be in any doubt about that.
Use of PR companies at times highlights a cynical approach from various parties. Use of NDAs/ commercial confidentiality etc. (going all the way back to the original SISU purchase of the club) means all parties can continue to throw inane jibes at each other hoping some of it registers with the fanbase. Even a book on the subject has many gaps due to these clauses.
Too many egos involved and it has allowed the situation to get way too personal.
"he said, she said" mentality is almost playground stuff.

 

[shmmeee]

Don't think anyone should be in any doubt about that.
Use of PR companies at times highlights a cynical approach from various parties. Use of NDAs/ commercial confidentiality etc. (going all the way back to the original SISU purchase of the club) means all parties can continue to throw inane jibes at each other hoping some of it registers with the fanbase. Even a book on the subject has many gaps due to these clauses.
Too many egos involved and it has allowed the situation to get way too personal.
"he said, she said" mentality is almost playground stuff.

The courts stuff has always added another layer as well. What is said can prejudice a decision so both sides will have been told to keep shtum unless there’s a good reason not to. Plus the two main players are hedge funds and not to be too stereotypical but I’d guess are quite good at strategic thinking and managing angry stakeholders and the like.

It’s a proper mess.

Hence my pessimism.

 

[tisza]

I think a lot of the time stadiums are held in separate holding companies, I don't think that would be unusual. Wasps certainly do it. The point is more the revenue it brings in. We aren't the only sports club to think it's important, Wasps bought the Ricoh for the same reason.

When a new stadium was first mooted years back (alongside pretty diagrams) Fisher was quite clear it would be a Propco.
Does negate the possibilty of some of the financial shenanigans currently going on with certain Championship clubs re: stadium ownership

 

[mmttww]

I think pressing Wasps on the indemnity issue is the right thing. Council should be footing that bill. In the interest of balance, can we press SISU on the new stadium?

It doesn't (or shouldn't) take six years to identify a site and tell us about it. Transparency from them seems a fair ask, especially if they want to convince folks that it's not just bullsh*t brinksmanship.

Pete and Mark - what are your thoughts? Do you think you'll get anywhere pushing the club to be more open re: new sites?

 

[oldfiver]

I think a lot of the time stadiums are held in separate holding companies, I don't think that would be unusual. Wasps certainly do it. The point is more the revenue it brings in. We aren't the only sports club to think it's important, Wasps bought the Ricoh for the same reason.

The business language is OpCo - PropCo
You keep the major assets in a less risky company (PropCo) and the day to day trading in OpCo
Standard practice these days

 

[shmmeee]

The business language is OpCo - PropCo
You keep the major assets in a less risky company (PropCo) and the day to day trading in OpCo
Standard practice these days

Yep. You should see the company diagrams from some property companies. I’ve seen one with a separate company for each property in their portfolio. “12 Acacia Avenue Ltd” “13 Acacia Avenue Ltd” for a couple of hundred properties.

 

[mark82]

Pete and Mark - what are your thoughts? Do you think you'll get anywhere pushing the club to be more open re: new sites?

No, I don't think so. Completely unwilling to discuss location other than that they were within the radius defined by the EFL. Cited commercial confidentiality, worried that prices would be pushed up if they knew what land would be used for. I know this is always a concern for big developments. Companies like Disney have always hide that its them buying when they purchase land for the same reason, suspect similar is happening here where seller doesn't know its CCFC looking at land.

 

[oldfiver]

Yep. You should see the company diagrams from some property companies. I’ve seen one with a separate company for each property in their portfolio. “12 Acacia Avenue Ltd” “13 Acacia Avenue Ltd” for a couple of hundred properties.

Property companies do this for every new development - have done for years. So check your NHBC certifcate and warranties closely

 

[clint van damme]

I mean yeah. But equally don’t be under any impression we’ll get told anything other than what suits each sides agenda. None of the groups have to talk to anyone and will only choose to do so if they think it helps them further their aims. There’s a little naivety about that from some on here sometimes.

true, but sometimes when one side doesn't dispute a statement made by the other it pretty much confirms what the other side have said.
When the bun fight starts, you know someone's lying.

 

[clint van damme]

No, I don't think so. Completely unwilling to discuss location other than that they were within the radius defined by the EFL. Cited commercial confidentiality, worried that prices would be pushed up if they knew what land would be used for. I know this is always a concern for big developments. Companies like Disney have always hide that its them buying when they purchase land for the same reason, suspect similar is happening here where seller doesn't know its CCFC looking at land.

appropriate you should mention Disney in a post about sisu building a stadium!

 

[mr_monkey]

appropriate you should mention Disney in a post about sisu building a stadium!

Sisu are racists?

 

[tisza]

No, I don't think so. Completely unwilling to discuss location other than that they were within the radius defined by the EFL. Cited commercial confidentiality, worried that prices would be pushed up if they knew what land would be used for. I know this is always a concern for big developments. Companies like Disney have always hide that its them buying when they purchase land for the same reason, suspect similar is happening here where seller doesn't know its CCFC looking at land.

No different from Highfield Road where itk companies bought up certain sites around the ground before the sale was announced.(supposedly to keep prices down)

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Pete and Mark - what are your thoughts? Do you think you'll get anywhere pushing the club to be more open re: new sites?

IMO it is imperative that the Club give the fans a little bit more information in relation to a new stadium.

For me and I’m sure many others, the talk of a new stadium cannot be taken seriously unless the Club has taken steps to progress these plans.

> Is there designs for a new stadium, based on the clubs vision of the new stadium?
> Has an offer been submitted for the land that has been identified as preferred?
> What is the Clubs timescale for proceeding with their preferred site option, can the timescale be shared and what is the alternative should the timescale not be met?
> How is the new stadium being funded?

While I wish to believe that Joy and Dave are being honest with Mark and Pete the fans demand more information than what is currently available.

Telling fans that the Club plans to stay at the Ricoh with an expectation to move into a new stadium afterwards doesn’t wash, a new stadium has been talked about for years and to this point, not delivered.

 

[mr_monkey]

IMO it is imperative that the Club give the fans a little bit more information in relation to a new stadium.

For me and I’m sure many others, the talk of a new stadium cannot be taken seriously unless the Club has taken steps to progress these plans.

> Is there designs for a new stadium, based on the clubs vision of the new stadium?
> Has an offer been submitted for the land that has been identified as preferred?
> What is the Clubs timescale for proceeding with their preferred site option, can the timescale be shared and what is the alternative should the timescale not be met?
> How is the new stadium being funded?

While I wish to believe that Joy and Dave are being honest with Mark and Pete the fans demand more information than what is currently available.

Telling fans that the Club plans to stay at the Ricoh with an expectation to move into a new stadium afterwards doesn’t wash, a new stadium has been talked about for years and to this point, not delivered.

Let's get back to the Ricoh first on a fair deal and then demand things about a new stadium.... as others have said previously, not exactly great negotiation tatics to have a new stadium plan out in the open before you even have agreed the short term

 

[Halftime Orange]

Yes the inflatable stadium is still a dream of Joy even though she said it was dead in the water just like Fisher had a plan B that isn't an option....or a plan. The amount of contradictions that have come out of SISU's mouths are laughable yet people still get sucked in

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Communication lines are still open though via email. We'll get there eventually, just not as easy as we found the CCFC side. I can appreciate some reticence as we are CCFC fans and not Wasps fans. We need to see actions from all parties. Will be reaching out to CCFC side periodically to see if any signs of progress.

If it were me personally I’d bang Nick Eastwood, Joy and Dave all one e-mail, give a short and factual introduction from a CCFC fans point of view, before sending it out to all of them and promoting a talking point. You will of essentially lit the fuse at that point. By all means send an email to each party beforehand to outline your intentions, not for any personal gain, but to mediate and remove the stand off.

Outline what the fans are looking for from this and ask whether you can act as mediator to the point of;

> Establishing what obstacles are on each side to approach the table.
> What can be done by all parties to remove the obstacles, in order for talks to begin.
> Promote the cons that would benefit from each party talking to the other, I.e CCFC back in Coventry for potentially a season in the Championship, therefore increased revenues, potential for greater success. From a Wasps perspective additional support in terms of the Ricoh and it’s financing through a tenant, the prospect of greater stability for Wasps group short term.

The worst case is no one responds and as has been worried by many, both parties are not serious about discussions, despite publicly stating different.

Best case you promote discussions for the good of both parties, the benefit of the Ricoh Arena itself, the people of Coventry and local businesses.

I admit, probably won’t be deemed as the most professional way of handling this situation, but the professionals who own each club have failed for so long, what’s the worst thing that can happen in trying to get to a point where you’ve got Wasps and City talking?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Let's get back to the Ricoh first on a fair deal and then demand things about a new stadium.... as others have said previously, not exactly great negotiation tatics to have a new stadium plan out in the open before you even have agreed the short term

No potentially not, but the Club have outlined their ideas on what deal they would require from Wasps and the reasons behind the length of the tenancy.

What SISU and CCFC need to do is show that the talk of a new stadium is serious, because reality is other than a new stadium being mentioned publicly there isn’t anything to evidence that a new stadium is either a possibility or feasible.

Land can be identified, but what has the Club done to progress on this? More needs to be outlined to the fans, not so much Wasps, to highlight what is being done. Some people still believe that SISU dragging their heels is a distress tactic and while I don’t believe that personally, coming out with “We’ve done X, Y and Z. We’ve got 1, 2 and 3” shows their serious.

 

[shmmeee]

Sisu are racists?

Boddy hides subtle sexual imagery on the cover of each program.

 

[shmmeee]

Got to say, I dont follow the “keep the stadium secret cos negotiations” line. Surely having other options is to your advantage in a negotiation rather than looking like it’s this or bust?

 

[usskyblue]

A deal for the Ricoh is the only Coventry-in-Coventry option for the foreseeable future...unfortunately.

The question I’d like answering regarding long term is; Are the Council doing anyfuckingthing to assist with prospective sites for a new stadium?

 

[mr_monkey]

No potentially not, but the Club have outlined their ideas on what deal they would require from Wasps and the reasons behind the length of the tenancy.

What SISU and CCFC need to do is show that the talk of a new stadium is serious, because reality is other than a new stadium being mentioned publicly there isn’t anything to evidence that a new stadium is either a possibility or feasible.

Land can be identified, but what has the Club done to progress on this? More needs to be outlined to the fans, not so much Wasps, to highlight what is being done. Some people still believe that SISU dragging their heels is a distress tactic and while I don’t believe that personally, coming out with “We’ve done X, Y and Z. We’ve got 1, 2 and 3” shows their serious.

Again mate if they are negotiating for land it needs to be on the dl otherwise the price will go up. Look at the majority of singings Robbins has made, under the radar and then boom... Im as frustrated as the next man about not knowing but I'm happy to wait to get the right place at the right price

 

[mr_monkey]

Boddy hides subtle sexual imagery on the cover of each program.

You are a complete tit but that has just made me spit coffee out on my screen.... Bravo sir

 

[Nick]

Got to say, I dont follow the “keep the stadium secret cos negotiations” line. Surely having other options is to your advantage in a negotiation rather than looking like it’s this or bust?

Not really, if they want the stadium within Coventry.

 

[clint van damme]

Not really, if they want the stadium within Coventry.

But why keep alluding to it without a bit more detail?
Either shut the fuck up or after all this time put a bit more meat on the bones.

It's a diversionary tactic as far as im concerned and one that suits wasps as much as it does them.

 

[Nick]

But why keep alluding to it without a bit more detail?
Either shut the fuck up or after all this time put a bit more meat on the bones.

It's a diversionary tactic as far as im concerned and one that suits wasps as much as it does them.

Oh I agree, I just meant it isn't really a bargaining tool if they say they are building a stadium in Coventry because that then involves CCC.

 

[shmmeee]

Oh I agree, I just meant it isn't really a bargaining tool if they say they are building a stadium in Coventry because that then involves CCC.

I mean they’re already saying it and the council would have to be involved early as you say, but that kinda reenforces my point about it being unlikely to be being kept secret for negotiations.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

A deal for the Ricoh is the only Coventry-in-Coventry option for the foreseeable future...unfortunately.

The question I’d like answering regarding long term is; Are the Council doing anyfuckingthing to assist with prospective sites for a new stadium?

No it sisus fault and they need to sort it. I think a memorandum of understanding is a great thing to expect of duggjns and co

 

[Nick]

I mean they’re already saying it and the council would have to be involved early as you say, but that kinda reenforces my point about it being unlikely to be being kept secret for negotiations.

Yep but they said it last time and Duggins denied it then confirmed it by mistake.

The issue there is that CCC have control over that.

 

[shmmeee]

Yep but they said it last time and Duggins denied it then confirmed it by mistake.

The issue there is that CCC have control over that.

Sorry you’ve lost me. Over what?

 

[clint van damme]

Yep but they said it last time and Duggins denied it then confirmed it by mistake.

The issue there is that CCC have control over that.

who was it who had the planning application for the hotel near the Ricoh turned down just before wasps got theirs rubber stamped?

 

[shmmeee]

No it sisus fault and they need to sort it. I think a memorandum of understanding is a great thing to expect of duggjns and co

Just for shits and giggles can you ask him from me “Considering how schemes such as Friargate and CCS keep hitting the rocks and with Ikea leaving and high streets and city centres needing to find new non retail attractions, and the council has long been looking for a central mid sized music location, wouldn’t a city centre stadium actually be the best solution for central regeneration?”

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Just for shits and giggles can you ask him from me “Considering how schemes such as Friargate and CCS keep hitting the rocks and with Ikea leaving and high streets and city centres needing to find new non retail attractions, and the council has long been looking for a central mid sized music location, wouldn’t a city centre stadium actually be the best solution for central regeneration?”

Hope so mark has emailed him pretty much the same thing although his pa hasn’t arranged a date yet

 

[Nick]

Sorry you’ve lost me. Over what?

Over if a stadium will be built in their boundaries.