Moving out of Coventry

[chiefdave]

Think Don is simply saying, what's the point for Sisu?

There is no hope but there's also no hope for them staying in Coventry. They've made a complete mess of it and despite what they say if they could get shot of the club I am certain they would.

 

[dongonzalos]

The legals would be ongoing as would JR2, in fact being forced out by Wasps might strengthen JR2.


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Wasps saying drop the legals and we will talk will strengthen the legals against them?

 

[chiefdave]

Can you answer why they would choose a Northanpton scenario again.

But they aren't choosing it. Nobody is suggesting that if Wasps tomorrow say you can have a rolling 5 year deal on the same terms you have now that SISU will tell them to stick it and move to Sixfields. What people are saying is if Wasps force us out there is no other option but leave the city.

 

[Otis]

So what other options are there?

Are people going to be lining up to buy a club in our position?

Don't think he is arguing that Nick. He's just asking what is left for Sisu if that happens. I think most if us believe the legal bid will fail.

Don's just asking if we play say 20 miles away in front of just a few thousand fans tops, then what is left for Sisu? Where have they got to go?

 

[Bennets Afro]

I think sisu would choose a Northampton scenario if wasps continue to refuse to do a deal with the club. That's the only way we would be leaving

 

[stupot07]

I don't think they will liquidate the club. Who is hoping for anything and if you get the point.
Can you answer why they would choose a Northanpton scenario again.
What do they have to gain from that scenario?

Why don't you answer it? You've obviously have a hypothesis.

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[Nick]

Why don't you answer it? You've obviously have a hypothesis.

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Certainly trying to get at something.

 

[dongonzalos]

Why don't you answer it? You've obviously have a hypothesis.

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I can't see a reason why they would that's the point I am making. My answer is I can't see them doing it.
You lot are all talking about them getting forced out of the city again.
I am saying unless it is reasonably local. It's not worth them having the club in those circumstances.

 

[stupot07]

Wasps saying drop the legals and we will talk will strengthen the legals against them?

Why not? Its pretty much blackmail. My view its bullshit anyway and just a delaying tactic to force the club to have no choice but agree a substantially more expensive deal with far worse terms.

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[Liquid Gold]

Unwatch thread can be a lifeline

 

[chiefdave]

My answer is I can't see them doing it.

OK, so you don't think they will move the club out of the city. Fair enough.
Now what happens if you're right and Wasps continue to refuse to talk to the club?

 

[Otis]

There is no hope but there's also no hope for them staying in Coventry. They've made a complete mess of it and despite what they say if they could get shot of the club I am certain they would.

Yeah. If we have another good season this year though, the crowds will be high on occasion. Get in the play offs we are looking at over 20,000.

Big game at the top of the table, pushing 20,000 maybe.

Same next season. There is that little bit of hope there this season and next while we are at the Ricoh.

After the deal runs out, if we are not here our budget is going to get cut dramatically and the crowds will drop off dramatically.

Not much hope now, but next to nil hope if we are 20 miles away playing in front of 2,000-3,000 odd.

 

[Nick]

Why not? Its pretty much blackmail.

Pretty much seems like it, same with the Council and their "give us some money".

 

[Nick]

Yeah. If we have another good season this year though, the crowds will be high on occasion. Get in the play offs we are looking at over 20,000.

Big game at the top of the table, pushing 20,000 maybe.

Same next season. There is that little bit if hope there this season and next.

After the deal runs out, if we are not here our budget is going to get cut dramatically and the crowds will drop off dramatically.

Not much hope now, but next to nil hope if we are 20 miles away playing in front of 2,000-3,000 odd.

Maybe closer to the time a little bit of anger might get whipped up at Wasps and the Council if they still refuse to do anything?

 

[Otis]

Maybe closer to the time a little bit of anger might get whipped up at Wasps and the Council if they still refuse to do anything?

Maybe it will, but I think most will still blame Sisu.

You know it and I know it.

 

[chiefdave]

Big game at the top of the table, pushing 20,000 maybe.

I'm not convinced. We had a top of the table match last season and 15K turned up. We won 4-1 and only 11K turned up for the next game.

 

[Nick]

Maybe it will, but I think most will still blame Sisu.

You know it and I know it.

Quite Strange really if Wasps are still saying they won't do a deal.

Makes you wonder about our fans a little bit.

 

[Otis]

I'm not convinced. We had a top of the table match last season and 15K turned up. We won 4-1 and only 11K turned up for the next game.

That was very early in though. City fans are very fickle and were probably waiting for the instant demise anyway.

We get up near the top, with a big game and we are doing consistently well, we would get big crowds for the likes of Sheff Utd home for sure and for play-offs without doubt.

 

[Otis]

Quite Strange really if Wasps are still saying they won't do a deal.

Makes you wonder about our fans a little bit.

You not been on the CT site lately then?

 

[Otis]

Besides, Wasps won't say they won't do a deal. It will be worded so the blame looks like it lies at Sisu's door and people will swallow it.

 

[dongonzalos]

Why not? Its pretty much blackmail. My view its bullshit anyway and just a delaying tactic to force the club to have no choice but agree a substantially more expensive deal with far worse terms.

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To be fair if you are been honest with yourself it doesn't really help the legal action.
The legal action will be was the sale to wasps too cheap or not.
Once having acquired ACL. If Wasps feel they can't do business with SISU. That is irrelevant to the price they paid for ACL.

 

[dongonzalos]

OK, so you don't think they will move the club out of the city. Fair enough.
Now what happens if you're right and Wasps continue to refuse to talk to the club?

I can see SISU doing one of three things.
Drop their legal actions in exchange for a double deal (smartest move IMO)
Sell the club for next to nothing. Continue with the legal action put the "forced" sale of the club whilst at the bottom of the business cycle onto the list of loses in a compensation claim if the legal action works.
Negotiate a one year move with the FL elsewhere. Somewhere closer than Northampton. Whilst desperately trying to find a closer solution such as Hinkley town or Nuneaton. Where they would need to develop the stadium Just to even ground share temporarily. Then eventually try and stay their permanently.

Those are the only options I see as conceivable. I can't see a move to somewhere like Northampton for more than a year. I don't think it's worth it to them.

 

[stupot07]

To be fair if you are been honest with yourself it doesn't really help the legal action.
The legal action will be was the sale to wasps too cheap or not.
Once having acquired ACL. If Wasps feel they can't do business with SISU. That is irrelevant to the price they paid for ACL.

Its all about the narrative and the picture it paints of the council and wasps. I wouldn't expect you to agree though, you rarely see things in grayscale, just black and white.



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[dongonzalos]

Its all about the narrative and the picture it paints of the council and wasps. I wouldn't expect you to agree though, you rarely see things in grayscale, just black and white.



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Unfortunately when it comes to a judicial review over a legal point. The courts are very black and white as well and not very grey scale

 

[Grendel]

I can see SISU doing one of three things.
Drop their legal actions in exchange for a double deal (smartest move IMO)
Sell the club for next to nothing. Continue with the legal action put the "forced" sale of the club whilst at the bottom of the business cycle onto the list of loses in a compensation claim if the legal action works.
Negotiate a one year move with the FL elsewhere. Somewhere closer than Northampton. Whilst desperately trying to find a closer solution such as Hinkley town or Nuneaton. Where they would need to develop the stadium Just to even ground share temporarily. Then eventually try and stay their permanently.

Those are the only options I see as conceivable. I can't see a move to somewhere like Northampton for more than a year. I don't think it's worth it to them.

If the club could show that there was no home available at all but could find a permanent home 100 miles away why wouldn't the FL sanction it?

 

[dongonzalos]

If the club could show that there was no home available at all but could find a permanent home 100 miles away why wouldn't the FL sanction it?

They can't sanction franchising.
They would not sanction us permanent moving 100 miles away. Otherwise they are giving people the blueprint to start doing a Wimbledon again.
Enter into negotiations but always blame the other party for all the breakdowns. Tell the FL thee is no solution.
Take yourself off to somewhere else that you have a better chance of making some cash.
They would block it (like they did to Brighton) and the club would have to choose to deal with Wasps and their conditions or walk away.

 

[stupot07]

Unfortunately when it comes to a judicial review over a legal point. The courts are very black and wait as well and not very grey scale

Barristers paint a narrative with facts, this would fit nicely in there - under sold/state aid, sold on the provisor that would not be detriment to the club (yes, that was what the decision was based on), and then wasps pretty much kick them out. Doesn't make the council decision look good.

Its also about PR, media war and also potential impact on wasps commercial image.

Whilst I don't want the club to move out, I wouldnt write it off as a non starter, I'm sure simon wouldn't be going on the PR offensive if he thought like you there was no chance.

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[stupot07]

They can't sanction franchising.
They would not sanction us permanent moving 100 miles away. Otherwise they are giving people the blueprint to start doing a Wimbledon again.
Enter into negotiations but always blame the other party for all the breakdowns. Tell the FL thee is no solution.
Take yourself off to somewhere else that you have a better chance of making some cash.
They would block it (like they did to Brighton) and the club would have to choose to deal with Wasps and their conditions or walk away.

It is the other fucking party, wasps won't negotiate, the FL cannot and will not force them to do so.

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[dongonzalos]

Barristers paint a narrative with facts, this would fit nicely in there - under sold/state aid, sold on the provisor that would not be detriment to the club (yes, that was what the decision was based on), and then wasps pretty much kick them out. Doesn't make the council decision look good.

Its also about PR, media war and also potential impact on wasps commercial image.

Whilst I don't want the club to move out, I wouldnt write it off as a non starter, I'm sure simon wouldn't be going on the PR offensive if he thought like you there was no chance.

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I just don't think the judges want hear about it Stu. They just want what is relevant to the question for example.....

Sisu QC: “The tone of the (High Court) judgment is hostile to Sisu. It’s suggests Sisu’s conduct is outrageous.”
Judge Tomlinson interupts again.

He says: “Why are we interested in why they decided not to pay? We’re not here to look at anyone’s conduct.”
Sisu QC: “There’s an indication this was a strategy to pick up ACL on the cheap.”
Judge Treacy says: “The judgment says these were actions Sisu were entitled to take. Commercially they’re perfectly entitled to do that.”
Sisu QC: “But that was not the case, there was a common interest in driving down the value to negotiate better terms with the bank.

“Sisu’s strategy was not to drive down the value of ACL. The strategy was to break what was strangling ACL, the unaffordable debt that ACL had and the unaffordable rent that the club had.”
Justice Tomlinson: “This is of extremely limited interest. This seems to have generated a lot of heat at the time, but it’s a distraction from the issues.”
Now the Sisu QC has agreed to move on

 

[donald_trumps]

One worry I have is that SISU actually love the fact that the council have made life so difficult for us to stay/build in Coventry, and that one day they will just move the club to another part of the UK (like MK Dons did) and just say "Well the council made our position in the city untenable, so we simply had to move"

This could all be playing perfectly into their hands of owning a club, and having a location of their choice.

 

[oucho]

No chance - FA would unlikely sanction it after the MK Dons fiasco. And besides, where would we be moved to?

 

[ClarkeZ]

No chance - FA would unlikely sanction it after the MK Dons fiasco. And besides, where would we be moved to?

Agree, would never happen.
Even the FL learned from the MK move. There isnt anywhere that has real prospects for a club move anyway, London is saturated, as are the other major cities. The smaller cities and towns all pretty much have their own and certainly wont change allegiance to the relocated CCFC.

Wasps was different, no existing MAJOR rugby team, close enough to create rivalries with Leicester and Northampton etc. (not condoning it before someone bites my head off)

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

If we had to move from the Ricoh then the blame would have many fathers and a willing partner in Wasps. If it came to that then I would suggest the club moves to a home that with a bit of work could accommodate them and still be within reach for all fans: our brethren at Nuneaton Town, forget Sixfields, Bescot ect.... the Boro stadium would suffice if we ask nicely and put up some temporary stands. Anyway our fanbase is sinking to that level with the stench of all that is going on.

 

[percy]

the day we move out of coventry in my eyes we are no longer coventry city fc, i couldnt continue supporting for this reason.

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

if it was a permanent move I would agree but if it was because all of the idiots concerned couldn't reach a solution then rather than kill the club then I am sure we could stay afloat locally. At Northampton I really was at the point of divorce from the club as the owners had taken the step deliberately, however I believe this is a different scenario with all the idiots seemingly determined to take us to the abyss.