Nationalism (8 Viewers)

Evo1883 · Aug 19, 2020

Why is nationalism bad for everybody except the scottish? I'm genuinely intrigued.

Saw a tweet that stated over 50% of Scots would ban English people from holidaying in the country, there's a name for that somewhere?

All over social media Scottish independence is lauded even by some English people... But when are people going to actually call out the Scots on their xenophobia and anti English sentiments in the same way everybody calls out the English

chiefdave · Aug 19, 2020

Evo1883 said:
Saw a tweet that stated over 50% of Scots would ban English people from holidaying in the country, there's a name for that somewhere?

Do you mean during covid-19 or in general? If the former then that's not really shocking when you compare the two countries figures.

Evo1883 · Aug 19, 2020

chiefdave said:
Do you mean during covid-19 or in general? If the former then that's not really shocking when you compare the two countries figures.

I'm unsure, and tbh my figures are Incorrect, it's 54 % of SNP voters, I'm still unsure why scottish nationalism is celebrated, there is most definitely an anti English element in Scotland, yet nobody really talks about it

shmmeee · Aug 19, 2020

People are mental. In a pure democracy I saw we’d ban HGVs from motorways. Imagine!

To answer your question, it’s bad everywhere, including Scotland.

Evo1883 · Aug 19, 2020

shmmeee said:
People are mental. In a pure democracy I saw we’d ban HGVs from motorways. Imagine!

To answer your question, it’s bad everywhere, including Scotland.

My main problem with it, as its obviously a problem in Scotland, alot of Scottish nationalists use many of the same arguments they laughed at Brexiteers for using, and there is clearly some anti English sentiment in the country... But Nobody barely talks about it...
Why does nobody talk about the fact some people will vote for independence based solely on their hatred for England and why is sturgeon never grilled to pieces on this issue

shmmeee · Aug 19, 2020

Evo1883 said:
My main problem with it, as its obviously a problem in Scotland, alot of Scottish nationalists use many of the same arguments they laughed at Brexiteers for using, and there is clearly some anti English sentiment in the country... But Nobody barely talks about it...

Been said a lot in the Brexit thread, the two arguments are the same. You can’t argue for Scottish independence and against Brexit or visa versa.

To be clear, I think anywhere should be able to hold a referendum and if the people vote for it become independent. But the arguments are usually poor IMO. But I’m a metropolitan elite citizen of nowhere brainwashed by the NWO.

Evo1883 · Aug 19, 2020

shmmeee said:
Been said a lot in the Brexit thread, the two arguments are the same. You can’t argue for Scottish independence and against Brexit or visa versa.

To be clear, I think anywhere should be able to hold a referendum and if the people vote for it become independent. But the arguments are usually poor IMO. But I’m a metropolitan elite citizen of nowhere brainwashed by the NWO.

I totally believe in Scotlands right to be an independent country if the people vote for it.

I'm not at all onbard with the blatant anti English sentiment that gets spouted all over social media by Scottish nationalists...

Travs · Aug 19, 2020

I generally agree with everything said in the above posts... it's never challenged.

However my understanding of the Scottish Independence/Brexit issue, is that they "want" to be independent from us so that they can then stay in the EU as a single nation.... *

* This may well be complete bollocks, but how i understood it...

I know one or two people Scottish natives and they will freely admit there is hostility towards outsiders, even in some cases to people from other regions of Scotland... (although this isn't unknown down here either!)

Wales is just as bad...

Though unlike Scotland, at least they seem to accept that they're a 3rd world country and better off sticking with us

Evo1883 · Aug 19, 2020

I suppose its not completely ignored up north of the border

shmmeee · Aug 19, 2020

Tribalism is human nature TBF. It’s where’s the line between jokey banter and outright discrimination as always that’s the rub.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 19, 2020

Evo1883 said:
Nobody barely talks about it...
Why does nobody talk about the fact some people will vote for independence based solely on their hatred for England and why is sturgeon never grilled to pieces on this issue

Because we're in England, so don't bother acknowledging Scottish politics.

Which in turn, of course, stokes Scottish nationalism...

Ian1779 · Aug 19, 2020

A lot of it has been exacerbated firstly by Brexit, but especially by Cov-ID. You don’t have to like Sturgeon but her handling of the pandemic had been a hundred-fold better than Johnson. They want to eliminate the virus a bit like New Zealand had but they see the biggest threat to that coming from across the border.

Evo1883 · Aug 19, 2020

Ian1779 said:
A lot of it has been exacerbated firstly by Brexit, but especially by Cov-ID. You don’t have to like Sturgeon but her handling of the pandemic had been a hundred-fold better than Johnson. They want to eliminate the virus a bit like New Zealand had but they see the biggest threat to that coming from across the border.

I 100% agree about the virus handling...but this has been going on for alot longer than covid and brexit in general

Ian1779 · Aug 19, 2020

Evo1883 said:
I 100% agree about the virus handling...but this has been going on for alot longer than covid and brexit in general

I don’t disagree - but now they’ve been given something to focus on.

clint van damme · Aug 19, 2020

Evo1883 said:
My main problem with it, as its obviously a problem in Scotland, alot of Scottish nationalists use many of the same arguments they laughed at Brexiteers for using, and there is clearly some anti English sentiment in the country... But Nobody barely talks about it...
Why does nobody talk about the fact some people will vote for independence based solely on their hatred for England and why is sturgeon never grilled to pieces on this issue

are you saying it's obviously a problem based on what you see in the media? I visit Scotland regularly and I've never had an issue.

Evo1883 · Aug 19, 2020

clint van damme said:
are you saying it's obviously a problem based on what you see in the media? I visit Scotland regularly and I've never had an issue.

I mean I visit Wales often as my missus is Welsh but i was in a Welsh regiment and I can tell you that the Welsh have some strong things to say about us lol... I don't see it on social media... I do see Scottish anti English sentiments quite often

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 19, 2020

clint van damme said:
are you saying it's obviously a problem based on what you see in the media? I visit Scotland regularly and I've never had an issue.

I lived there for about 8 years and had mixed experiences but many there who swallowed the Braveheart bullshit. The result of a curriculum where they are taught about wars against England all the way through. One told me the Nazis ‘weren’t so bad’ because they bombed England but not Scotland

clint van damme · Aug 19, 2020

Evo1883 said:
I mean I visit Wales often as my missus is Welsh but i was in a Welsh regiment and I can tell you that the Welsh have some strong things to say about us lol... I don't see it on social media... I do see Scottish anti English sentiments quite often

of course there are people in Scotland who don't like the English, (and I mean dislike us as a people not just want the football team to lose), but I don't think it's a prolific as certain sections of media are making out, certain sections who have a very clear agenda I might add.

I, like you don't have a problem with it if it's what Scottish people vote for, my only beef is that they dress it up as though they're a colonised country who are trying to break from their imperialist overlords when in reality Scotland has been a full and willing partner in everything the British empire has done so if there's anything they don't like they can't just blame the English.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 19, 2020

clint van damme said:
of course there are people in Scotland who don't like the English, (and I mean dislike us as a people not just want the football team to lose), but I don't think it's a prolific as certain sections of media are making out, certain sections who have a very clear agenda I might add.

I, like you don't have a problem with it if it's what Scottish people vote for, my only beef is that they dress it up as though they're a colonised country who are trying to break from their imperialist overlords when in reality Scotland has been a full and willing partner in everything the British empire has done so if there's anything they don't like they can't just blame the English.

What I think people on both sides should do more of is go and live on the other or at least travel between them. The conclusion I came to is that when you take identity out of it we are very similar but with different accents. Social attitude surveys have shown just as much

olderskyblue · Aug 19, 2020

clint van damme said:
are you saying it's obviously a problem based on what you see in the media? I visit Scotland regularly and I've never had an issue.

Did you ever watch any of the debates before their first vote on independence?

Nasty, vitriolic anti English sentiment at its worst. Brexit and Covid are a convenient smokescreen to hide the hatred of the English. (No idea what %)

I go there regularly too (OH’s family are all Scots) and had a few issues, people hearing my accent in a bar etc (her uncles and cousins sorted it out) as we go visit them in the Scots version of willenhall... stick to nice areas or tourist attractions and you’ll hardly see it, but it’s there.

Evo1883 · Aug 19, 2020

BTW, it's very ironic the amount of similarities between brexit and Scottish independence... Take this massive whopping lie for example... These people want to join the EU yet leave the union... One provides almost 4 times more revenue than the other to Scotland, as a leave voter who didn't listen at the time... It's exactly the same

clint van damme · Aug 19, 2020

olderskyblue said:
Did you ever watch any of the debates before their first vote on independence?

Nasty, vitriolic anti English sentiment at its worst. Brexit and Covid are a convenient smokescreen to hide the hatred of the English. (No idea what %)

I go there regularly too (OH’s family are all Scots) and had a few issues, people hearing my accent in a bar etc (her uncles and cousins sorted it out) as we go visit them in the Scots version of willenhall... stick to nice areas or tourist attractions and you’ll hardly see it, but it’s there.

I visit some dodgy areas and never had a problem. In fact always treated really well so I've been lucky.
The only time I ever had an issue in a Celtic country was once in Dublin.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 19, 2020

Evo1883 said:
BTW, it's very ironic the amount of similarities between brexit and Scottish independence... Take this massive whopping lie for example... These people want to join the EU yet leave the union... One provides almost 4 times more revenue than the other to Scotland, as a leave voter who didn't listen at the time... It's exactly the same View attachment 16469

Yep if you put together a Brexiter opposing Scottish Indy and a Scottish Indy supporter who opposes Brexit you get some funny moments. It was Nicola Sturgeon herself who said

‘You can’t just throw your toys out of the pram and threaten to leave when things don’t go your way’

Evo1883 · Aug 19, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Yep if you put together a Brexiter opposing Scottish Indy and a Scottish Indy supporter who opposes Brexit you get some funny moments. It was Nicola Sturgeon herself who said

‘You can’t just throw your toys out of the pram and threaten to leave when things don’t go your way’

Sturgeon is a massive hypocrite

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 19, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I lived there for about 8 years and had mixed experiences but many there who swallowed the Braveheart bullshit. The result of a curriculum where they are taught about wars against England all the way through. One told me the Nazis ‘weren’t so bad’ because they bombed England but not Scotland

They seem to focus heavily on the Ed I, William Wallace, Robert the Bruce, Bannockburn etc which is 13th C.

They have a bit about the Stuarts and them being forced off the throne by William and Mary, but seem to ignore the fact that a Union between Scotland and England occurred because a Scottish king took over the English throne when Liz I died without an heir.

They seem to completely ignore the Darien expedition, which was a monumental failure and which could be argued ultimately led to the creation of Great Britain as we effectively bailed them out.

Evo1883 · Aug 19, 2020

clint van damme said:
I visit some dodgy areas and never had a problem. In fact always treated really well so I've been lucky.
The only time I ever had an issue in a Celtic country was once in Dublin.

Walk down the street and say hello the morning after their independence vote... If they get it... I bet it will be so pleasant

Evo1883 · Aug 19, 2020

Mind you, I have no doubt that anti Scottish sentiment would erupt in England if they voted leave... And it wouldn't be too pleasant for every scot living in England... Such is life's way

clint van damme · Aug 19, 2020

Evo1883 said:
Walk down the street and say hello the morning after their independence vote... If they get it... I bet it will be so pleasant

I was up there after the last vote. No issues.
I'd imagine they'd have been more pissed off after that then if they win.

And a lot of people voted to stay in the UK remember.

clint van damme · Aug 19, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
They seem to focus heavily on the Ed I, William Wallace, Robert the Bruce, Bannockburn etc which is 13th C.

They have a bit about the Stuarts and them being forced off the thrown by William and Mary, but seem to ignore the fact that a Union between Scotland and England occurred because a Scottish king took over the English throne when Liz I died without an heir.

They seem to completely ignore the Darien expedition, which was a monumental failure and which could be argued ultimately led to the creation of Great Britain as we effectively bailed them out.

Is the Darien exposition that Panama carry on?

clint van damme · Aug 19, 2020

Evo1883 said:
Mind you, I have no doubt that anti Scottish sentiment would erupt in England if they voted leave... And it wouldn't be too pleasant for every scot living in England... Such is life's way

I honestly don't believe it would.
Increase,.maybe but not erupt. Most people have friends and family who are from the other nation. A lot of it is just bluster.

For everything people say I don't think the rivalry is that serious.
I once went on holiday to a resort full of Dutch and Germans and that was hatred, it kicked off big time 2 or 3 times. It was carnage.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 19, 2020

clint van damme said:
Is the Darien exposition that Panama carry on?

Yep

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 19, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
They seem to focus heavily on the Ed I, William Wallace, Robert the Bruce, Bannockburn etc which is 13th C.

They have a bit about the Stuarts and them being forced off the throne by William and Mary, but seem to ignore the fact that a Union between Scotland and England occurred because a Scottish king took over the English throne when Liz I died without an heir.

They seem to completely ignore the Darien expedition, which was a monumental failure and which could be argued ultimately led to the creation of Great Britain as we effectively bailed them out.

My missus is Scottish and did History right up to her final year. Every year was about Wallace/Bruce/Wars of Independence and even things like WW2 were covered in terms of how it was for Scottish fishermen and spreading falsehoods like Englishmen sending Scots ‘over the top’ first. Because she speaks with an Englishy accent she would usually have people trying to ‘out’ her as not really Scottish.
The whole thing is a microcosm of the hardened Brexiter argument. Funnily enough those who argued for Scottish self determination opposed Orkney and Shetland staying in the UK because ‘they’re tiny so they don’t count’. I agree with Scots on a lot of stuff but identity turns most into wankers like it does here.

Grendel · Aug 19, 2020

clint van damme said:
are you saying it's obviously a problem based on what you see in the media? I visit Scotland regularly and I've never had an issue.

Really? I remember in I think 1998 I was in Glasgow with work when we played Argentina and the hatred was shocking

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 19, 2020

Evo1883 said:
Sturgeon is a massive hypocrite

People conveniently ignore that she was generally in consensus with the whole UK approach to handling Covid in the first months of the outbreak.

clint van damme · Aug 19, 2020

Grendel said:
Really? I remember in I think 1998 I was in Glasgow with work when we played Argentina and the hatred was shocking

but that's going to happen around a football game, I've seen that happen here when Scotland are playing.
And I would add, that when I say I've never had an issue, my visits are almost exclusively Strathclyde, (yes I know that includes Glasgow), I've haven't spent much time further north or on the east coast.

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