shmmeee
Well-Known Member
And who do you see as the PLP winning? The membership have the final say on the leader. Whoever wins it’s the memberships choice.
And the factions will continue. The membership dynamic is completely at odds with the PLP dynamic. If the PLP win then the membership will disappear - and that’s the campaign arm of the party gone. If the membership win then the PLP will continue to just fight itself. I just can’t see anyone there right now that can bring both sides together.
And who do you see as the PLP winning? The membership have the final say on the leader. Whoever wins it’s the memberships choice.
And who do you see as the PLP winning? The membership have the final say on the leader. Whoever wins it’s the memberships choice.
That’s true - but the membership got their choice the last 2 times and it didn’t stop a sizeable portion of people within the PLP actively undermining the leader both in 2017 and 2019. We can’t carry on like this or we won’t ever be able to unite. You only have to look at the ‘justification’ behind the attempt at ousting Corbyn in 2016.... he didnt campaign enough for Remain when actually his campaign presence/appearance was larger than most people that were on ‘Team Remain’
I suspect that the 2 highest performing candidates with the membership will be RLB and Starmer because their values still reflect the nature of the manifesto direction. If RLB wins for example Labour don’t perform well at local elections in May will they turn on her straight away? If Starmer wins and they don’t perform will it be because he’s an out of touch Londoner that doesn’t understand the ‘Labour heartlands’?
I’m amazed how dire Long-Bailey is - she makes Duncan-Smith and his leadership look Churchillian - I don’t understand how you win this long drawn out thing it seems very complex but no one surely will seriously consider her
Ordinary people don't want/expect to have something in common with the leaders of political parties. They look for someone who seems to have a clear message and then they decide whether they can implement that message.Boris Johnson couldn’t have less in common with ordinary people if he tried but he’s a master charlatan and bullshitter. Let’s be honest about it and go for the equivalent.
It’s been changed to try and get more Corbynite people onto the ballot, but basically there’s two nomination stages then a final ballot.
First you need 5% of the MPs/MEPs to nominate you, about 22 at the moment. Phillips, Starmer, Nandy, RLB and Thornberry managed that.
Then (this is the new bit) you need either a certain percentage of affiliates group like unions and socialist societies (based on size of membership so Unite means more than the Musicians Union or whatever) OR a certain percentage of CLPs to nominate you. This is the stage we are currently in. RLB will get Momentumite CLPs and left wing unions like Unite and Food Workers begins her for that. Phillips realises she was too right wing for the unions and too disliked by members and dropped out. Currently Starmer and Nandy are through on affiliate nominations alone, RLB will probably make it too, question marks over Thornberry.
Then it’s a vote by members with alternative vote so members rank their options, if no one gets over 50% they are eliminated and their second options redistributed. Repeat until someone’s over 50%.
Polling is suggesting it’s Starmer by a mile. RLB got lots of Momentumite first preferences but you need the soft left like Corbyn had and they don’t seem to be taking to her. As you say she’s pretty unimpressive and the wider field is more palatable to the soft left than it was when Corbyn won.
Actually just looked that’s Friday it seems
RLB would be a disaster, the Momentum lot should just form their own party.
Problem with labour is how they draw up a think tank that isn't heavily influenced by 1 particular "faction".I was thinking about this and I think the best thing would be a think tank to create and test policy ideas that the Labour Party can draw upon. the Party needs to be an election winning machine focused on voters IMO, and a lot of members (not just Momentum) get more excited by big ideas that scare voters at first.
Problem with labour is how they draw up a think tank that isn't heavily influenced by 1 particular "faction".
RLB would be a disaster, the Momentum lot should just form their own party.
The process is way too drawn out and Corbyn should have stepped down already, having him front the party still at PMQs is ridiculous.
You could argue that Labour First and Progress should do the same thing. At least Momentum brought with them an organised and effective campaigning machine - the other 2 had nothing like this.
Actually it did well where it campaigned - but was not diverse or wide ranging enough.Yes an organised campaign that appealed to very few people
You could argue that Labour First and Progress should do the same thing. At least Momentum brought with them an organised and effective campaigning machine - the other 2 had nothing like this.
Certainly not the effect it had in 2017. In my opinion this is because it was too London focused and too Remain focused. Maybe the infrastructure isn’t there outside of the big city areas.What effect did it have?
I want to vote labour again so it must be Lisa Nandy or Kier Starmer.
RLB is just a diluted Corbyn,Who cannot see the worst defeat since 1935? Momentum need getting rid of period!!
Period?I want to vote labour again so it must be Lisa Nandy or Kier Starmer.
RLB is just a diluted Corbyn,Who cannot see the worst defeat since 1935? Momentum need getting rid of period!!
Exacerbated by the Brexit issue. It’s not a comparable measure.
Exacerbated by the Brexit issue. It’s not a comparable measure.
Not really. Brexit was a key part of the election and as usual labour blundered their strategy
Labour other than under Blair have seemed incapable of running an election strategy. Tories with the exception of 2017 are pretty good at it
Wasn't momentum set up to be this electoral winning machine? Where it has got lost (made electorate nervous) is becoming its own political group within the Labour Party. Ultimately going to need rebranding because of its association with Corbynism.Was having this chat with a guy at CLP last night. The Tories are an election winning machine and no less focused on their ideological goals for it. We could learn a lot from them.
Wasn't momentum set up to be this electoral winning machine? Where it has got lost (made electorate nervous) is becoming its own political group within the Labour Party. Ultimately going to need rebranding because of its association with Corbynism.
Momentum is a campaigning and activist organisation. Not the same thing. Winning elections is about a lot more than ground game.
agreed and having the ability to flex your ideology to suit the wider population...something momentum appear unwilling to do. I’d go even further and suggest their ‘if you don’t agree with us you’re Tory scum’ might’ve actually put a few people off as well !
Equally supported by Brexit. Labour got a lot of Remain votes it otherwise wouldn’t have.
We need to listen to what people are telling us dude. Corbyns changed the party for the better in many ways, we have a large membership as you say and the current slate is more left than any I can remember but in many other ways he was a disaster and it’s time to move on.
Momentum killed the Labour party and im sure most decent labour supporters would agree with me on that, prove me wrong lol
The thing is I don’t disagree on reflection. He has set a narrative and one that we should build on with a new leader. But I worry we lose the good things and slip back to being a party ambivalent on austerity.
Was having this chat with a guy at CLP last night. The Tories are an election winning machine and no less focused on their ideological goals for it. We could learn a lot from them.
To be fair - irrespective of their agendas and splits, come election time they unite behind a single voice. Labour couldn’t follow suit.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?