New owners of CCFC required ? (1 Viewer)

[Astute]

New owner? A few days ago I would have said yes 100%. But I am now unsure.

Our club isn't worth a lot if it worth anything. Losses are massive whilst in Northampton. Nobody in their right mind would buy our club at the moment unless they could get it cheap and get a deal to play at the Ricoh.

Our present situation is a joke. But I have a feeling that things will move quickly after the JR. I am now unsure where the main fault lies. Why has CCC been quiet? It could be because they don't want to give anything away. It could be because they have something to hide.

I would like new owners. It would give us fans a boost.

CCC would like new owners.

Higgs would like new owners.

SISU would like our club to have new owners. But they want a fair bit of money back first.

 

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[Jack Griffin]

You then need to deduct its liabilities. That's a net deficit of more than £30m.

Not really, SISU/ARVO have to write the liabilities off and accept a fraction of that amount, e.g. £5M or so.

They started at CCFC with about £12M investment for a Championship Club.. now they have £45/50M debt and a homeless league one club, it is their mess and they have to pay for it,

Why should anyone else pay for their mismanagement over nearly 7 years.

 

[Covstu]

Ltes face it, we didnt have a queue of rich suitors when the club was up for sale previously so why would this change all of a sudden now? No-one in their right minds will come and save this club with the current debts, uncertainty and policitical shit that is going on. If they do they need their heads testing!

Further to this, it is likely that anyone who would purchase the club would face exactly the same issues as our current owners including financial constraints and no ground to play at. I think people think there are arab billionaires waiting to buy clubs every week. If there are, we are not going to be top of their list sadly!

 

[sky blue john]

Ltes face it, we didnt have a queue of rich suitors when the
club was up for sale previously so why would this change all of a sudden now? No-one in their right minds will come and save this club with the current debts, uncertainty and policitical shit that is going on. If they do they need their heads testing!

Further to this, it is likely that anyone who would purchase the club would face exactly the same issues as our current owners including financial constraints and no ground to play at. I think people think there are arab billionaires waiting to buy clubs every week. If there are, we are not going to be top of their list sadly!

So your saying nobody but Sisu bidded for ccfc during the recent administration process ?

 

[The Prefect]

The only realistic way out for SISU is to accept an offer in the region of £10-£20 million for the club, which would then include the write off off all debt to SISU and its related parties.

In this case SISU would have made a loss of the value of the debt less the consideration for the club, but this has to be better than the alternative which is to provide funds to the club to continue running without any foreseeable profit, and certainly nowhere near recouping their total investment.

The new owner would be in a position to take the club forward with very little external debt (probably only standard operating debts), and the ability to open fresh talks with ACL with a view to returning to the RICOH. With the right owner on board and a good relationship formed with the council and higgs, a future purchase of ACL to combine club and stadium wouldnt be too unfeasible.

The main stopping point is that SISU are being stubborn in the extreme and seem to want to continue chasing losses whilst alienating all other associated stakeholders. There are almost certainly parties interesting in buying out the club and for the amounts stated but they will not make an approach until SISU can be seen to actively want an exit. Until then SISU will want to play hardball and insist of a full payoff of their debt, which will quite rightly not be met by anybody.

Great post Jim. I do agree.

It seems we're caught by owners that can't sell and therefore buyer's can't buy at a realistic price. Would you pay £10m-£20m for a business with a deficit of more than £30m?

I don't know the endgame here. Something tells me that SISU are in 'shit or bust' mode. I'm not sure it's the right strategy when they have been 'alienating all other associated stakeholders,' to borrow your phrase.

 

[The Prefect]

Not really, SISU/ARVO have to write the liabilities off and accept a fraction of that amount, e.g. £5M or so.

They started at CCFC with about £12M investment for a Championship Club.. now they have £45/50M debt and a homeless league one club, it is their mess and they have to pay for it,

Why should anyone else pay for their mismanagement over nearly 7 years.

Spot on!

 

[mrbluesky87]

Great post Jim. I do agree.

It seems we're caught by owners that can't sell and therefore buyer's can't buy at a realistic price. Would you pay £10m-£20m for a business with a deficit of more than £30m?

I don't know the endgame here. Something tells me that SISU are in 'shit or bust' mode. I'm not sure it's the right strategy when they have been 'alienating all other associated stakeholders,' to borrow your phrase.

And those hoping that the CCC/ACL get screwed at the JR, what will it achieve???? SISU have alienated everybody that they have come in contact with (with the exception of RFC) thus nobody wants to do any kind of deal with them for either the sale of the ground or the club.
I fear this may go on for a very long time after the JR and/or SISU will liquidate us. The facts are they will never own the Ricoh and will have to take a loss on the sale of the club.

 

[Covstu]

So your saying nobody but Sisu bidded for ccfc during the recent administration process ?

i didnt say that did I? what i was saying was there isnt going to be anyone who is willing to throw bucketloads of cash at us. Haskell would not been able to improve the situation we are in , he wouldnt be anymore financially viable that our current owners. Dont think he had the clout to pull the purchase off in the first place but thats just my opinion.

 

[chiefdave]

what i was saying was there isnt going to be anyone who is willing to throw bucketloads of cash at us.

This is an interesting point and one that probably needs its own thread. Even in a best case scenario where we started under new owners with zero debt and back at the Ricoh with access to all revenues without running at a loss how do you remain competitive? Look at Pompey this year, they have the FL over their shoulder making sure they don't spend more than they have coming in and despite the biggest crowds in the division, and you'd assume therefore the highest revenue, they are struggling to stay in the league. Not sure that FFP, unless it's tightened and enforced strictly, is going to resolve that issue so owners of clubs will always need to be prepared to lose money.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

So your saying nobody but Sisu bidded for ccfc during the recent administration process ?

I don't think that's quite what Stu was referring to but Stu has a point, looking at PH4 and Byng for instance neither of their respective parties filled me with much hope when trying to purchase our Football Club and neither have shown any desire since, which I think tells you all you need to know.

Don't get me wrong we all want a rich Arab to come walking through the door with the Ricoh as his first purchase, but the chances are slim I am afraid.


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[Deleted member 5849]

Don't get me wrong we all want a rich Arab to come walking through the door with the Ricoh as his first purchase

I don't particularly.

Especially not if he's walking hand in hand with Joe Elliott.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

This is an interesting point and one that probably needs its own thread. Even in a best case scenario where we started under new owners with zero debt and back at the Ricoh with access to all revenues without running at a loss how do you remain competitive? Look at Pompey this year, they have the FL over their shoulder making sure they don't spend more than they have coming in and despite the biggest crowds in the division, and you'd assume therefore the highest revenue, they are struggling to stay in the league. Not sure that FFP, unless it's tightened and enforced strictly, is going to resolve that issue so owners of clubs will always need to be prepared to lose money.

I get what point your trying to make Dave, but I don't think Pompey are a great example, the saying "Quality over Quantity" springs to mind when I think of Pompey this season.

The best thing for Portsmouth right now would be to stop the rot, it's a Club that even though has sound finances at this moment in time, has been a Club that in the playing terms been on a free fall for four years. I am sure there first priority this season was survival, next year will be the test as they will look to build and mount the challenge now they have stabilised the free fall.


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[RoboCCFC90]

I don't particularly.

Especially not if he's walking hand in hand with Joe Elliott.

Hush, hush NW Joe Elliott is a Saint to many I agree though with your first point in which your train thought is "Even though we could have someone come in and splash the cash, does it mean we will be better off in the future?"


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[Deleted member 5849]

This is an interesting point and one that probably needs its own thread. Even in a best case scenario where we started under new owners with zero debt and back at the Ricoh with access to all revenues without running at a loss how do you remain competitive? Look at Pompey this year, they have the FL over their shoulder making sure they don't spend more than they have coming in and despite the biggest crowds in the division, and you'd assume therefore the highest revenue, they are struggling to stay in the league. Not sure that FFP, unless it's tightened and enforced strictly, is going to resolve that issue so owners of clubs will always need to be prepared to lose money.

Th huge fuck off list of former players they're still having to pay doesn't help Pompey move forward.

 

[Nick]

Th huge fuck off list of former players they're still having to pay doesn't help Pompey move forward.

But at least they invested in the team

 

[chiefdave]

I get what point your trying to make Dave, but I don't think Pompey are a great example, the saying "Quality over Quantity" springs to mind when I think of Pompey this season.

Not sure they haven't got quantity, they're got a squad of getting on for 40 at the moment and another 5 or 6 out on loan!

Th huge fuck off list of former players they're still having to pay doesn't help Pompey move forward.

They're still getting premier league parachute payments which cover that (the they're being paid straight to the PFA) so pretty much all income from this season is going on the funding this season.

How many clubs that are operating at break even are there in the championship or premier league? I have no idea but I would guess there isn't many.

 

[skybluefred]

What are the asset's of CCFC ?.
They own Ryton--or Arvo do and it's value is approx £5 to £6m.

A playing squad (being generous ) worth £3m.

A new season will soon be here and we will be restricted to paying no more than 60%
of this season's income on the players. That's the income from playing at Northampton!!!

Let's be generous and say a buyer came along and offered £15m for the Club debt free.
Would sisu accept---I think not---but they would be clown's not to.

 

[georgehudson]

i've not trawled through the previous pages,
i merely wish to convey the wish of thousands,
& they are fans of our beloved club,
that wish is for our club to be our club,
only the mysterious ones know who we are owned by,
& standing by with digits up their own are the fa & fl,
frankly, the fans are sick of all of this, it's the fans who are suffering

 

[letsallsingtogether]

So a stadium outside of Coventry with no facilities and a capacity that keeps changing every other day is worth 25 million yet a stadium with conference facilities and a hotel is worth fuck all?

Sisu believe they can make more of a profit by having new companies running it so why not just pay for it, make their money back then fuck off and let someone else have a go

How do you know it's a bargain? Have you done due diligence on their books?


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[sky blue john]

You may want to dance around your handbags on the other thread with he said she said !
The facts that are relevant to ccfc supporters.

1) Sisu can't do a deal for the Ricoh.
2) Playing outside Coventry in front of 10% of fans.
3) 40million + In debt with nothing to show for it.
4) Paying fees and interest on debt of between 1-2 million a year which is unsustainable at sixfields.
5) Sisu can't deliver new stadium in Coventry.

Once you accept these facts then the only conclusion for all ccfc supporters is for Sisu to be replaced with owners who can deliver the basics required.

Just thought i would bring this up because of the lack of smoking gun or game changers..

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Living in hope.

 

[italiahorse]

I've added one for you

6) No new owners would now want to deal with a council who have been shown to conspire against the tenants at the Arena

Unproven conclusion above ....... but is that the same as trying to replace a non paying tenant with a paying one ?
It's called good business practice in my mind.

 

[sky blue john]

Living in hope.

Its obviously the only option and what all fans should be pushing for.

 

[dongonzalos]

But at least they invested in the team

A fan of there's was in radio 5 the other day. Said he would rather be where they are now having experienced those 8 magical years. Than bobbing along experiencing nothing.

 

[sky blue john]

Sisu don't even have a plan to get us back to Coventry !!

 

[sky blue john]

Its obvious to me now that the only way CCFC can move forward now is with new owners.
Sisu had the opportunity to buy into the Ricoh but blew it with their tactics.
Why are Sisu fighting for the Ricoh when they deem the Higgs, Acl and the freehold all worthless ?
Its Sisu's fault the way things have turned out and all these court actions are just sour grapes.
I see comments on here with some of you saying hopefully they can do a deal now. Do you really think thay can happen ?
I can't believe that some fans who frequent this forum, were in uproar that a Council member had not told Sisu they were paying off the loan. But happily except Joy and Tim Fisher threatening to liquidate CCFC at every turn !!!!
To much has gone on now for a deal to ever happen so new owners are required to move CCFC foward. The longer Sisu are at the helm the longer our club stays in limbo !!!

As summed up in todays CET article Sisu's conspiracy theory thrown out by judge !!!

 

[@richh87]

I find it pathetic that any one of you want anything other than SISU gone and new owners. This club has huge potential and very loyal fans who have been through so much disappointment and crap over the years.

People seem to accept the current situation as if it isn't of SISU's making.

They are utter immoral, corrupt, inept clowns. That isn't up for debate - it's a fact.

Owners holding a club hostage? It simply doesn't fucking happen anywhere else. Why aren't people more willing to form a breakaway club?

What happens when they liquidate? Will there still be certain posters on here backing that decision? I'm sure there will; and I'm sure they aren't real supporters.

We all know who they are.


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[sky blue john]

I find it pathetic that any one of you want anything other than SISU gone and new owners. This club has huge potential and very loyal fans who have been through so much disappointment and crap over the years.

People seem to accept the current situation as if it isn't of SISU's making.

They are utter immoral, corrupt, inept clowns. That isn't up for debate - it's a fact.

Owners holding a club hostage? It simply doesn't fucking happen anywhere else. Why aren't people more willing to form a breakaway club?

What happens when they liquidate? Will there still be certain posters on here backing that decision? I'm sure there will; and I'm sure they aren't real supporters.

We all know who they are.


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Hear hear Rich.
Except for breakaway club that would have to be last resort.
I'm expecting Sisu to be laughed out of court at the JR !!
Then when they lose an appeal they will fuck off from our club eventually.
We are probably looking at another 12-18 months of pain though. Give or take a month depending on how long it takes the not so bright sixfields posse to wise up to them !!

 

[hill83]

rich87 in breakaway club comment shocker.

 

[Warwickhunt]

Hear hear Rich.
Except for breakaway club that would have to be last resort.
I'm expecting Sisu to be laughed out of court at the JR !!
Then when they lose an appeal they will fuck off from our club eventually.
We are probably looking at another 12-18 months of pain though. Give or take a month depending on how long it takes the not so bright sixfields posse to wise up to them !!

There is no way these guys will go without any Wonga! so we are damn well stuck in Limbo if they lose the JR

 

[Moff]

Owners holding a club hostage? It simply doesn't fucking happen anywhere else. Why aren't people more willing to form a breakaway club?

Rich, why dont you practice what you preach and you start a breakaway club, instead of constantly telling other people to do it.