New Stadium financial viability. (1 Viewer)

[Godiva]

Did SISU not look at ACL's books and say they were not viable and not worth buying?

They did due diligence on ACL and apparently found it wasn't worth paying the set formula price for the Higgs shares. Since then ACL did some cost cutting and business development exercises that kind of imply sisu were right?
Funny thing is if sisu had bought the ACL mortgage at distressed value they might have got a discount big enough to justify paying Higgs over the top for their shares.

 

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[Jack Griffin]

Wow so if they can only get 50 million for all that.

What would we get for a 12k stadium no hotel and the rest

Cost to build £20M, asset value £10M perhaps. What did Leicester sell the KP for, £17M and that is 30,000 plus capacity?

 

[Jack Griffin]

Much of the debts will have been written off with limited and holding being liquidated. That's the debts that was kept on the books from before sisu took over.
OSB made a post a month ago about it.
The debt left that is actually making an impact is the debt to ARVO as that is carrying interest. I think that amounts to some £12m.
JS said the debts to the original funds had been written of in the funds accounts, which means that can be bought at a much reduced value.

You are getting confused between the debt in Otium and the group debt in SBS&L, which is more like £35M.

I thought the football related debt was around £10 million. The rest will have been written off.

Written off, LOL inaccurate & misleading statement with zero evidence to back it up, no wonder no one pays much heed to what you say.

 

[Godiva]

You are getting confused between the debt in Otium and the group debt in SBS&L, which is more like £35M.

No I am not - keep reading.

 

[Samo]

So, to recap; we have established that a rental deal IS a possibility because the rules around FFP and equity injection mean that the club could return to the Ricoh and move the club forward to a salable position should they wish to do so. Does anyone disagree with that?

 

[Grendel]

No I am not - keep reading.

Stop feeding the Council Troll Godiva

 

[Grendel]

You are getting confused between the debt in Otium and the group debt in SBS&L, which is more like £35M.



Written off, LOL inaccurate & misleading statement with zero evidence to back it up, no wonder no one pays much heed to what you say.

Says the Troll who never posts a single post regarding the football club he pretends to support.

 

[bigfatronssba]

They did due diligence on ACL and apparently found it wasn't worth paying the set formula price for the Higgs shares. Since then ACL did some cost cutting and business development exercises that kind of imply sisu were right?
Funny thing is if sisu had bought the ACL mortgage at distressed value they might have got a discount big enough to justify paying Higgs over the top for their shares.

But that would have meant two parties (Sisu and the Council) conspiring to damage a the business of a third party (Yorkshire Bank or ACL), and that according to Mark Labovitch is illegal.

So how could Sisu have done this whilst staying on the right side of the law?

 

[Jack Griffin]

If that happens do ARVO then need to recoup as much of 8 million that they can?

They can probably cover about £2M, selling Ryton, golden share & players. That is all.

 

[Grendel]

They can probably cover about £2M, selling Ryton, golden share & players. That is all.

Have you ever actually made a post regarding football on here "Jack"

 

[Noggin]

They did due diligence on ACL and apparently found it wasn't worth paying the set formula price for the Higgs shares. Since then ACL did some cost cutting and business development exercises that kind of imply sisu were right?
Funny thing is if sisu had bought the ACL mortgage at distressed value they might have got a discount big enough to justify paying Higgs over the top for their shares.

So save a mill or two, then spend much more than that in the first year alone covering loses from lack of sponcership, ticket sales, merchandising sales, then there is legal fees, administrator fees, the loss of business from years to come from alienating your fan base, the costs for trying to convince others you are planning a new stadium, for pr firms, the loss of prize money for finishing further down the table due to the -10 and the fact the squad is weaker, the ruining chance of promotion and dramatically increasing the chance of relegation it goes on and on. Really glad they didn't lose a bit of money by paying to the formula, really smart.

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

There won't be a single penny going into a new stadium from sisu.

The quicker people understand what a hedge f company does the better.

Sisu bet money... They don't fund.

CCFC is finished this summer.

I am afraid the sooner people realise this the better .

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not sure Mark Labovitch would agree, the football club is being run like a business for the first time in years.

Ah ……. actually maybe that's the point - football clubs rarely go out of business, businesses go bust all the time

 

[dongonzalos]

They did due diligence on ACL and apparently found it wasn't worth paying the set formula price for the Higgs shares. Since then ACL did some cost cutting and business development exercises that kind of imply sisu were right?
Funny thing is if sisu had bought the ACL mortgage at distressed value they might have got a discount big enough to justify paying Higgs over the top for their shares.

Do u roughly what the set formula price was?

 

[dongonzalos]

But that would have meant two parties (Sisu and the Council) conspiring to damage a the business of a third party (Yorkshire Bank or ACL), and that according to Mark Labovitch is illegal.

So how could Sisu have done this whilst staying on the right side of the law?

That crossed my mind.
I assume if the council state that this us the reason they stepped away from any deal with SISU. I think Joy has publicly admitted this plan. Is that not a defence against the JR?

 

[chiefdave]

But why should they continue to do so - should they put in another £Xm per year when those £Xm could just as well come from the turnover ACL already generate?
How much is the ACL revenue? I can't remember. Is it forecast at £13m for this fiscal year? That would really expand our FFP potential.

In my opinion it is SISU's fault we are not playing at the Ricoh and as a result of that we have a huge drop in revenue which they should make up. If the revenue isn't high enough then there's a very simple solution to that problem.

Not sure what you're suggesting with ACL's revenue, are you suggesting ACL revenues are run through CCFC for FFP purposes? Didn't SISU reject an offer that included that happening? If you mean the actual revenue should go to the club then surely they need to purchase that back. The Higgs 50% share includes all match day revenues and 50% of all other revenues so that seems an easy solution to that problem.

Do u roughly what the set formula price was?

I don't think it was ever public but was generally accepted to be around £10m. I think I'm right in saying SISU offered around half that, Higgs accepted and never heard from SISU again.

 

[chiefdave]

That crossed my mind.
I assume if the council state that this us the reason they stepped away from any deal with SISU. I think Joy has publicly admitted this plan. Is that not a defence against the JR?

That's what I don't understand. It appears from what little we know about the JR that SISU will present an argument which, according to what Labovich has been stating, will show that SISU has been acting illegally!

 

[dongonzalos]

In my opinion it is SISU's fault we are not playing at the Ricoh and as a result of that we have a huge drop in revenue which they should make up. If the revenue isn't high enough then there's a very simple solution to that problem.

Not sure what you're suggesting with ACL's revenue, are you suggesting ACL revenues are run through CCFC for FFP purposes? Didn't SISU reject an offer that included that happening? If you mean the actual revenue should go to the club then surely they need to purchase that back. The Higgs 50% share includes all match day revenues and 50% of all other revenues so that seems an easy solution to that problem.



I don't think it was ever public but was generally accepted to be around £10m. I think I'm right in saying SISU offered around half that, Higgs accepted and never heard from SISU again.

A one off payment of ten million would have led to 13 million for FFP purposes year upon year.

What were SISU aiming to pick it up for instead of spending 10 million, if the what sounds (to a layman) the somewhat unethical plan went ahead?

 

[wingy]

It's not "Chrstal Clear" but in the Trust q+a
it almost sounds like for clearing the YB loan for £7M. They expected to pick up the HIGGS stake for free
If that is the case you can see why It didn't happen
EitherCCC would have to settle with HIGGS should CCC wish to retain Its stake or HIGGS step aside for nowt
Sounds outlandish but how it reads, unless there is some unmentioned nuance.

 

[dongonzalos]

So buying it for 7 million instead of 10 million.

All this over three million. Which I would hazard a guess if they lose the JR plus the loses of one season in Sixfields will probably be three million.

Well done SISU

 

[wingy]

So buying it for 7 million instead of 10 million.

All this over three million. Which I would hazard a guess if they lose the JR plus the loses of one season in Sixfields will probably be three million.

Well done SISU

If I've read It correct It doesn't quite work out like that
For £7m. They get HIGGS stake, who would have to walk for Zero Or CCC to compensate£7m_£10m
Meaning SISU. Take HIGGS place no YB LOAN
YB OUT BY 7M
Ccouncil have to find enough lump Sum settle higgs

Sure that means no mortgage to pay through ACL but YB and CCCdown. by 7m each
My sums make that SISU Save £7m+

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

I can't get to sleep

 

[skybluetony176]

I can't get to sleep

Try reading GMK. That will send you to sleep.

 

[Godiva]

Do u roughly what the set formula price was?

I think it was about £8.5m. No official figures were ever released.

 

[Godiva]

In my opinion it is SISU's fault we are not playing at the Ricoh and as a result of that we have a huge drop in revenue which they should make up. If the revenue isn't high enough then there's a very simple solution to that problem.

What is it they say ... 'to every complex problem there's a solution that is clear, simple and wrong'.

Not sure what you're suggesting with ACL's revenue, are you suggesting ACL revenues are run through CCFC for FFP purposes? Didn't SISU reject an offer that included that happening? If you mean the actual revenue should go to the club then surely they need to purchase that back. The Higgs 50% share includes all match day revenues and 50% of all other revenues so that seems an easy solution to that problem.

I am suggesting that if ACL is part of (owned by) SBS&L group their revenue is counted towards the FFP. Forget the F/B revenue, that's peanuts and wont do much.

I don't think it was ever public but was generally accepted to be around £10m. I think I'm right in saying SISU offered around half that, Higgs accepted and never heard from SISU again.

Higgs never accepted, both parties agreed to heads of terms - that's different. I don't think sisu ever made an offer.

 

[Godiva]

A one off payment of ten million would have led to 13 million for FFP purposes year upon year.

What were SISU aiming to pick it up for instead of spending 10 million, if the what sounds (to a layman) the somewhat unethical plan went ahead?

No, it wouldn't. Buying the Higgs shares would not give control over ACL, so it wouldn't be possible to include ACL revenue in the FFP calculation.
(Somebody correct me if I am wrong!).

 

[Godiva]

It's not "Chrstal Clear" but in the Trust q+a
it almost sounds like for clearing the YB loan for £7M. They expected to pick up the HIGGS stake for free
If that is the case you can see why It didn't happen
EitherCCC would have to settle with HIGGS should CCC wish to retain Its stake or HIGGS step aside for nowt
Sounds outlandish but how it reads, unless there is some unmentioned nuance.

I do not believe it was ever the intention to acquire the Higgs shares for free. I think it was always the idea that Higgs would be paid at least what they originally invested.

 

[Como]

Whatever it costs to develop, judging from comparable developments it will have a market value of less than was invested.

So the point of doing it is what?

 

[wingy]

I do not believe it was ever the intention to acquire the Higgs shares for free. I think it was always the idea that Higgs would be paid at least what they originally invested.

[If it's proven that SISU were going to buy a share of ACL and CCC wrecked the deal, will you still blame SISU for taking us away, or accept that the Council never wanted an equal partner?]



The middle sentence I've copied and pasted from knowl on GMK.

I would still like clarity about my Initial post that led to your response,will revisit Trust Q+A.

 

[wingy]

I can't sleep ,It was my birthday yesterday ,Godiva's all over the place on this thread contradicting himself and i'm not doing much better .

Been all over the trust website and can't find It .

I contend that In print somewhere ,Trust ,CT ,SISU by paying off YB for £7M. expected to claim the right to the clubs original 50% stake In ACL and wherever I read that It did'nt mention paying off the Higgs as well.

Done Bedtime.4:18 am.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

[If it's proven that SISU were going to buy a share of ACL and CCC wrecked the deal, will you still blame SISU for taking us away, or accept that the Council never wanted an equal partner?]



The middle sentence I've copied and pasted from knowl on GMK.

I would still like clarity about my Initial post that led to your response,will revisit Trust Q+A.

I find this mind set incredible. Simply unfathomable. It appears what Knowl is saying is that if, and I hasten to add if, it can be proven that SISU's desire to but a share in ACL was scuppered; then every tactic they have employed thereafter is justified?!?

The rent strike, the vicious move to Northampton, the farce of the new stadium, the decimation of the fan base.

I cannot, simply cannot, see how a fan of Coventry City can hold that view

 

[chiefdave]

[If it's proven that SISU were going to buy a share of ACL and CCC wrecked the deal, will you still blame SISU for taking us away, or accept that the Council never wanted an equal partner?]

The middle sentence I've copied and pasted from knowl on GMK.

What an odd stance to take, how could that ever justify everything SISU have done? Let's for a minute say that SISU wanted to buy the Higgs share of ACL and were blocked by the council (bearing in mind the information currently available to us suggests SISU walked away having agreed a HOT and the council have stated no veto has ever been used) then how are these tactics acceptable? Why not just issue a statement saying the club tried to purchase 50% of ACL but were blocked by the council as a first step? You get all the fans supporting SISU and putting pressure on the council. Would that not be an obvious and very cheap thing to do?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What an odd stance to take, how could that ever justify everything SISU have done? Let's for a minute say that SISU wanted to buy the Higgs share of ACL and were blocked by the council (bearing in mind the information currently available to us suggests SISU walked away having agreed a HOT and the council have stated no veto has ever been used) then how are these tactics acceptable? Why not just issue a statement saying the club tried to purchase 50% of ACL but were blocked by the council as a first step? You get all the fans supporting SISU and putting pressure on the council. Would that not be an obvious and very cheap thing to do?

that's exactly what's been said. CCc and sisu were going to loan acl the 14m loan 50:50 and it is sisu contention that ccc went and did it alone

 

[chiefdave]

that's exactly what's been said. CCc and sisu were going to loan acl the 14m loan 50:50 and it is sisu contention that ccc went and did it alone

That in no way stops SISU purchasing a 50% stake in ACL.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Absolutely chief just pointing out the 'facts' as reported to us mushrooms. Mushrooms-left in the dark and fed shit