Not many will agree with me, but :- (1 Viewer)

[Voice_of_Reason]

Now SISU has no chance of buying a half share in the Ricoh, maybe put CCFC into Administration now, enabling someone to come in and "rescue" the Sky Blues and get rid of SISU. I know this would mean another year (at least) in Division One, but maybe in the long term may be best for CCFC.

 

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[ccfcway]

dont agree with you, why on earth would SISU put us into Adminstration ?

its carry on, or liquidation

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The club won't enter administration now. Honest. It'll either recover, or cease to exist

 

[singers_pore]

SISU will sell to a new owner. Administration makes little sense unless ACL issue a winding up order.

 

[torchomatic]

And they won't liquidate as they lose their £40M.

Hopefully, this will mean compromise with ACL. The Club can then move forward. If this looks like the Club won't be able to buy a slice of the Arena then it makes us less attractive to investors or potential new owners. So I can't see SISU going anywhere soon.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

The thread should have been called "No one will agree with me, but;"..

Then you would have been right chap..

 

[Otis]

The thread should have been called "No one will agree with me, but;"..

Then you would have been right chap..

Or just "No one will agree with me."

 

[ashbyjan]

I think its
a: carry on as now, cost cutting and bumping along and hoping by some miracle that MR can get promotion on a shoestring that will get even thinner
b: refuse to pay rent and be forced into liquidation by ACL and get their ARVO money (not more than £1m)
c: sell up at a price above liquidation but well below what they have invested. Maybe £2m-£5m

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Or just "No one will agree with me."

I am starting to think what the "but;" may have been for Otis, any ideas?

 

[skyblueman]

Now SISU has no chance of buying a half share in the Ricoh, maybe put CCFC into Administration now, enabling someone to come in and "rescue" the Sky Blues and get rid of SISU. I know this would mean another year (at least) in Division One, but maybe in the long term may be best for CCFC.

Sadly we are most likely already stuck in League one for another year regardless - administration won't happen no point for SISU - liquidate or make a go of it - this is a difficult one as the losses are still mounting up for SISU even with all the cost cutting it's still costing a lot of cash - just be grateful the debt to SISU is big - last thing we want is for them to go now as they would liquidate and ccfc would be gone for good

 

[Warwickhunt]

i think the days of a knight on a white charger have long since gone for ccfc

 

[Otis]

I am starting to think what the "but;" may have been for Otis, any ideas?

"No one will agree with me but; I am happy sitting here in my jacket that ties up at the back, looking at the woodpeckers through the bars on my window'

 

[Jcap]

Don't think the council deal stops SISU from buying the Higgs share of the lease. Does seem more unlikely than ever now though.

 

[Danceswithhorses]

Don't think the council deal stops SISU from buying the Higgs share of the lease. Does seem more unlikely than ever now though.

The council have a sale veto on the 50% that the Higgs charity own (and vice -versa iirc), even if Higgs charity agreed to sell their stake to SISU (very unlikely).
Seeing as how SISU has been trying to screw both of them, i really cant see it happening.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

"No one will agree with me but; I am happy sitting here in my jacket that ties up at the back, looking at the woodpeckers through the bars on my window'

I think that was it in fact :claping hands:

 

[singers_pore]

I think its
a: carry on as now, cost cutting and bumping along and hoping by some miracle that MR can get promotion on a shoestring that will get even thinner
b: refuse to pay rent and be forced into liquidation by ACL and get their ARVO money (not more than £1m)
c: sell up at a price above liquidation but well below what they have invested. Maybe £2m-£5m

Exactly - and of those three options, c is clearly better for SISU than a or b. Those saying that SISU won't leave because it would mean losing the 40m they have already put in are living in cloud cuckoo land. The losses incurred over past years are irrelevant. All that matters to SISU is getting the best possible deal from the very limited set of options that are currently available.

 

[cloughie]

And they won't liquidate as they lose their £40M.

Hopefully, this will mean compromise with ACL. The Club can then move forward. If this looks like the Club won't be able to buy a slice of the Arena then it makes us less attractive to investors or potential new owners. So I can't see SISU going anywhere soon.

The only way I see sisu leaving is making CCFC as attractive as possible which will be difficult given the situation.

The only driving factor that may speed up their exit is the deadline for CCFC to buy a share in ACL at the reduce price.
As that is unlikely that Higgs will sell their share to sisu, the only way they can maximise the value of that agreement is to sell to someone who is acceptable to Higgs / Council.

When the agreement runs out the clubs value will be lowered.

EDIT; one other factor is sisu decide they don't wish to continue funding CCFC any longer than need be, but it will be better to get a few million than1 million from liquidation

 

[Jack Griffin]

The question that needed answering for option a. is

- can SISU manage the club at break even till they have restored enough value to cut thier losses and sell it? I imagine MR will go to a better employer if his budget is slashed too much.

 

[torchomatic]

Which is why a JPT final appearance would do us the world of good. It might make the stayaways turn up and the Ricoh. That's why I'm pleased the SF tickets are still pitched at a fiver.

The question that needed answering for option a. is

- can SISU manage the club at break even till they have restored enough value to cut thier losses and sell it? I imagine MR will go to a better employer if his budget is slashed too much.

 

[Diehard Si]

Upon reading the news yesterday my first reaction was fair play to them for securing the stadium. Smart move.

My second thought, was that really screws SISU up now. My guess is they were funding the losses with the hope of the acquistion of the stadium, perhaps by forcing ACL under. Now that option is gone. The club is still losing millions a year and they have no hope of achieving their goals. Someone said why would they liquidate and lose their £40m? Well in 2 years that could be £45m to £50m. It's called cutting your losses.

No deal with the council will save the club enough money, the only real way sadly is slashing the wage bill, but this contradicts a plan for promtion.

They need to decide now whether they think supporting the club for the rest of this year and probably next year in league 1 with a large budget for promotion is viable

or

Reduce the wage bill in line with the gate receipts.

or

Cut losses and run.

 

[Gint11]

Now SISU has no chance of buying a half share in the Ricoh, maybe put CCFC into Administration now, enabling someone to come in and "rescue" the Sky Blues and get rid of SISU. I know this would mean another year (at least) in Division One, but maybe in the long term may be best for CCFC.

There will be no administration.

 

[Jack Griffin]

@torchy - I reckon a play off place and the JPT final will just about prop them up this year, even if they fail on both. But I'm thinking much longer term, 4 to 5 years when none of the above can be guaranteed.

 

[mattylad]

I think its
a: carry on as now, cost cutting and bumping along and hoping by some miracle that MR can get promotion on a shoestring that will get even thinner
b: refuse to pay rent and be forced into liquidation by ACL and get their ARVO money (not more than £1m)
c: sell up at a price above liquidation but well below what they have invested. Maybe £2m-£5m

c actually made me laugh out loud! you think anyone will pay a seven figure sum for a failing business that has not made money in its entire existence bar 1987 :facepalm:
maybe and its a bloody big maybe SISU will let the club move to another owners control if the debts can be restructured so that they are paid back a percentage of the total owed over a lengthy period of time. But even then they will want to keep its debenture in place should the new company fail.

 

[skyblueman]

Upon reading the news yesterday my first reaction was fair play to them for securing the stadium. Smart move.

My second thought, was that really screws SISU up now. My guess is they were funding the losses with the hope of the acquistion of the stadium, perhaps by forcing ACL under. Now that option is gone. The club is still losing millions a year and they have no hope of achieving their goals. Someone said why would they liquidate and lose their £40m? Well in 2 years that could be £45m to £50m. It's called cutting your losses.

No deal with the council will save the club enough money, the only real way sadly is slashing the wage bill, but this contradicts a plan for promtion.

They need to decide now whether they think supporting the club for the rest of this year and probably next year in league 1 with a large budget for promotion is viable

or

Reduce the wage bill in line with the gate receipts.

or

Cut losses and run.

My thoughts exactly - this is not good news for the club at all - if we don't look likely to get back up this season that might be it for SISU

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think this act pushes sisu into a corner and they have to reveal their motives now. Will they agree a deal or gamble more? No question in my mind that at the right price there would be people interested in buying ccfc.

 

[WillieStanley]

We have an even more rocky road ahead, that's for sure. Cheers CCC. I've often had the thought that maybe Sisu should have taken on the loan from Yorkshire Bank and called it in early, thus criplling ACL and allowing them to repo the whole complex. I'd be surprised if they haven't already tried, they certainly have the investors for it.

As it stands, the only way Sisu have a glimmer of hope of recouping their investment is by carrying on as normal. Any other move would be disasterous for them finacially, unless they include the repayment of the £40m into a takeover - which would turn us into the worst investment ever!!

Administration or Liquidation would be worst case scenarios for Sisu as they would be last in line to see any of the money they've put in, and may possibly have to take it on the chin and live without it.

So, unless the Robins Revolution marches us to back to back promotions, Coventry City Coucil have made it very much stale mate. We now, more than ever, need to agree a reasonable rent, or we will end up playing in the Blue Square or lower with owners who are even more distant.

 

[ashbyjan]

c actually made me laugh out loud! you think anyone will pay a seven figure sum for a failing business that has not made money in its entire existence bar 1987 :facepalm:
maybe and its a bloody big maybe SISU will let the club move to another owners control if the debts can be restructured so that they are paid back a percentage of the total owed over a lengthy period of time. But even then they will want to keep its debenture in place should the new company fail.

I would see anyone coming in to buy would do so in conjunction with forming a real partnership with ACL for development of leisure land, maybe buying the Charity portion of ACL. Deal would be bigger than just the football club itself, just as it should have been for SISU but they managed to screw it up from pretty much day one. If Ranson had prioritised the purchase of the 50% of ACL we may not be in the mess we are today - now all trust between SISU and ACL is gone and such a deal would never happen but with new owners - more than possible.

 

[Diehard Si]

I think this act pushes sisu into a corner and they have to reveal their motives now. Will they agree a deal or gamble more? No question in my mind that at the right price there would be people interested in buying ccfc.

Whatever happened to Cyrils mate?

 

[covcity4life]

council will never sell the stadium...not even to the nicest most financially stable investers

 

[SBS]

council will never sell the stadium...not even to the nicest most financially stable investers

I disagree, a successful football team is good for the city. If that meant selling the stadium then they'd do it - If the right person wanted it, made the correct offer and the fans and residents of Coventry agreed.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Just for clarity, who would go 'into administration' anyway:

SISU Capital Ltd: The ultimate owner of the club
Sconset Capital: Sconset is a Cayman Islands-based limited partnership created by Sisu to invest funds into the club
Sky Blues Sports and Leisure: The main holding company which owns Otium Entertainment Group
Otium Entertainments Group Ltd: Set up in April 2011 to raise financing. It is a 100-per-cent subsidiary of Sky Blue Sports and Leisure and holds 100 per cent of the ordinary shares in CCFC (Holdings) Limited
CCFC (Holdings): Owned by Otium Entertainment Group
CCFC Limited: There is little distinction between this company and CCFC (Holdings) Ltd

 

[Jack Griffin]

Frankly I'll be much happier if the Arena ownership and Club are kept seperate, that situation doesn't exclude the club from getting a share of match day income but it does prevent another Bryan Richardson type figure emerging and "taking a punt" with it.

@MMM - you forgot Avro and to be sure, there is little clarity is there not!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

@MMM - you forgot Avro and to be sure, there is little clarity is there not!

I was helped list the interested parties by a friend from Lutterworth who was counting the entities on the fingers of one hand. We ran out of digits after the 6 I listed

 

[Jack Griffin]

Also SISU only manage the club on behalf of their investors, they don't own it, a set of anonymous wealthy investors that put money into SISU funds do. No one of them owns more than 10% of the club or they'd have to declare thier interest publically, so there are at least 11 other parties involved. I think quite a few of them have the surname Huntsman imp: (Google "Huntsman Seppla" & you'll see what I mean).

 

[Paxman II]

This whole sage is a matter of opinion but also fact I'm afraid and how you are qualified to interpret those facts.
So many on various threads since this announcement have talked tripe and been guessing outrageously.

I personally can't be bothered to join in such debate so extensively as others when for the most part in ends in correcting peoples misconstrued ideas. Without bullying up the guy too much I would respectfully suggest OSB has the clearest handle on the situation as far as we know it to be.