Observation! (1 Viewer)

[clint van damme]

Don't be naive Nick, you know too well people have been called "Council Lovers" on here. Lets get some fooking balance here.

but calling someone a council lover doesn't mean you're pro sisu.
I put the lions share of blame for this mess firmly at sisus door but that doesn't admonish the council totally, I also hate them because of all the other stuff they screw up, and as I pay council tax to the useless tossers, I think I'm entitled to!

 

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[fernandopartridge]

How does Fuck off grab you?

Awww

 

[Nick]

Don't be naive Nick, you know too well people have been called "Council Lovers" on here. Lets get some fooking balance here.

That's not from just saying "SISU OUT" though is it? It probably stems from threads like "Proud of the council" and stuff like that.

 

[Astute]

That's not from just saying "SISU OUT" though is it? It probably stems from threads like "Proud of the council" and stuff like that.

We have a few that only ever have a go at CCC. We have a few that only ever have a go at SISU. We have a few that defend CCC frequently. We have a few that defend SISU frequently.

What should be happening is everyone should know that all sides are to blame. But some days that is very questionable.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

To me it's all a nonesense & excuses for a largely ambivalent population to CCC/CCFC/Wasps/SISU. None of it matters...Coventry is the 9th largest city in England. It can afford to accommodate major sports teams. Leicester has a successful football & rugby team. Liverpool, Manchester, Nottingham & Bristol all have 2 football teams on the go.
Why not just accept CRFC were going nowhere & had little support. That presents an opportunity for a.n.other team. In Coventry's case the Ricoh situation provided an added incentive for Wasps to move in.
If SISU were ready, willing & able (they have become less able due to thier own approach to gaining a deal) CCFC could happily & successfully co-exist imo

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Nick]

To me it's all a nonesense & excuses for a largely ambivalent population to CCC/CCFC/Wasps/SISU. None of it matters...Coventry is the 9th largest city in England. It can afford to accommodate major sports teams. Leicester has a successful football & rugby team. Liverpool, Manchester, Nottingham & Bristol all have 2 football teams on the go.
Why not just accept CRFC were going nowhere & had little support. That presents an opportunity for a.n.other team. In Coventry's case the Ricoh situation provided an added incentive for Wasps to move in.
If SISU were ready, willing & able (they have become less able due to thier own approach to gaining a deal) CCFC could happily & successfully co-exist imo

...onwards & upwards PUSB

Based on that, Wasps should be courting Premier League teams to replace us.

 

[Covstu]

To me it's all a nonesense & excuses for a largely ambivalent population to CCC/CCFC/Wasps/SISU. None of it matters...Coventry is the 9th largest city in England. It can afford to accommodate major sports teams. Leicester has a successful football & rugby team. Liverpool, Manchester, Nottingham & Bristol all have 2 football teams on the go.
Why not just accept CRFC were going nowhere & had little support. That presents an opportunity for a.n.other team. In Coventry's case the Ricoh situation provided an added incentive for Wasps to move in.
If SISU were ready, willing & able (they have become less able due to thier own approach to gaining a deal) CCFC could happily & successfully co-exist imo

...onwards & upwards PUSB

I agree it can hold both clubs and what the shame was that both clubs could/should be equal owners in the Ricoh and both would have been successful (with a happy cross over from one to another). This didn't happen, SISU being their usual scheming selfs and CCC wanting the fuck them over. Here we are picking up the pieces, i don't hate Wasps but i hate them owning the ground built for us.

 

[Brylowes]

But if I became aware of what was going on at Ashton Gate or Portman Rd I would give it a second thought. Same as what happened with Wimbledon still makes me angry so your first point doesn't stand.
I also honestly believe that most football supporters are concerned when they see other clubs getting run into the ground and that luckily, you seem to be the exception.

I grew up around football and identity with football related matters, that's why I empathised
With Wimbledon fans and couldn't believe what happened to them was allowed to happen.
While I don't wish plagues to befall rugby or it's supporters it holds no interest , it's probably
Why I didn't wallow in grief when Lady Diana was killed, I felt for her kids sure, but she isn't
Part of my life and is therefore not a priority of mine.
I don't think anyone who knows me would describe me as self-centred and without empathy,
But obviously from the lofty heights of your ivory tower you are able to "work me out" from a
Few lines written on the internet. Well done .
You do realise the only reason anyone is on here is because we support city don't you, we're not
on here to save the world. Some of the "holier than though" attitudes on here are embarrassing.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. SISU and Wasps should fucking do one and get out of our City.

 

[duffer]

To me it's all a nonesense & excuses for a largely ambivalent population to CCC/CCFC/Wasps/SISU. None of it matters...Coventry is the 9th largest city in England. It can afford to accommodate major sports teams. Leicester has a successful football & rugby team. Liverpool, Manchester, Nottingham & Bristol all have 2 football teams on the go.
Why not just accept CRFC were going nowhere & had little support. That presents an opportunity for a.n.other team. In Coventry's case the Ricoh situation provided an added incentive for Wasps to move in.
If SISU were ready, willing & able (they have become less able due to thier own approach to gaining a deal) CCFC could happily & successfully co-exist imo

...onwards & upwards PUSB

To start off with CRFC aren't going nowhere, they're trying to get out of the third division of rugby - it's not easy though because it's one up, one down and a competitive league. They are the best supported team in the division.

There are big parallels here with CCFC. Trying to get out of the third division of football and struggling, despite being one of the best supported teams in the division. Would that make it OK to bring another, bigger football team into the city?

As for both CCFC and Wasps being able to co-exist in the Ricoh, there seem to be some plausible arguments for why that's going to be very difficult, not least based upon Wasps apparent inability to share revenue, and their current withdrawal from negotiations. Also they seem to be pushing us out of our academy despite having options to build elsewhere. Like others you're happy to discount the ethics of the argument and talk about the commercial realities of Wasps moving here - and yet I'd fancy that if our owners proposed moving us for commercial reasons to someplace that you didn't like, you'd be outraged. I might be wrong in all fairness, but it seems to be the position that a lot here take.

 

[Captain Dart]

aren't going nowhere

Where might that be? Mr Double Negative.

 

[torchomatic]

Where might that be? Mr Double Negative.

That's all you got?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Based on that, Wasps should be courting Premier League teams to replace us.

I think only a fool would consider CCFC & CRFC to really be alike in any way

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I agree it can hold both clubs and what the shame was that both clubs could/should be equal owners in the Ricoh and both would have been successful (with a happy cross over from one to another). This didn't happen, SISU being their usual scheming selfs and CCC wanting the fuck them over. Here we are picking up the pieces, i don't hate Wasps but i hate them owning the ground built for us.

Yep I'm with you - hate situation, simple as that

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[SkyblueBazza]

To start off with CRFC aren't going nowhere, they're trying to get out of the third division of rugby - it's not easy though because it's one up, one down and a competitive league. They are the best supported team in the division.

There are big parallels here with CCFC. Trying to get out of the third division of football and struggling, despite being one of the best supported teams in the division. Would that make it OK to bring another, bigger football team into the city?

As for both CCFC and Wasps being able to co-exist in the Ricoh, there seem to be some plausible arguments for why that's going to be very difficult, not least based upon Wasps apparent inability to share revenue, and their current withdrawal from negotiations. Also they seem to be pushing us out of our academy despite having options to build elsewhere. Like others you're happy to discount the ethics of the argument and talk about the commercial realities of Wasps moving here - and yet I'd fancy that if our owners proposed moving us for commercial reasons to someplace that you didn't like, you'd be outraged. I might be wrong in all fairness, but it seems to be the position that a lot here take.

Football & Rugby are totally different at club level. Professional Rugby clubs attract far fewer supporters for a given corresponding level.
For that reason alone even Bournemouth who can only get what 12k in their small ground know the allegiance to CCFC would mean there would be nothing but losses to move into Coventry (Ricoh or otherwise).
Wasps have taken a BIG gamble. Whether it pays off or not remains to be seen.

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think only a fool would consider CCFC & CRFC to really be alike in any way

...onwards & upwards PUSB

Indeed.

CRFC have had far more success during their history.

 

[Calista]

Then with respect you've answered your own question. Wasps most certainly were not a franchise before they moved here. They'd moved around a few grounds in North/West London, were described by their owner when he purchased them as a 'London' club, had their base of operations and their academy in London, and most of their fans were from... wait for it, London.

Except that 80% of season ticket holders were from the High Wycombe area: http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s130.htm?129,14938011

It’s not surprising – if a rugby club from Birmingham moved to an industrial estate in Stratford on Avon, how many Brummies would still be regularly attending more than a decade later?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Indeed.

CRFC have had far more success during their history.

Before professional Rugby was introduced yes...bit like Old Etonians in football really

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Before professional Rugby was introduced yes...bit like Old Etonians in football really

...onwards & upwards PUSB

If we're only counting post 1995 in sport, then we may as well c**t Huddersfield and the like as being worthy of having a new team move into their patch.

 

[Otis]

If we're only counting post 1995 in sport, then we may as well c**t Huddersfield and the like as being worthy of having a new team move into their patch.

What!!!!! Bit harsh. C**t Huddersfield?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

If we're only counting post 1995 in sport, then we may as well c**t Huddersfield and the like as being worthy of having a new team move into their patch.

Say what you like - you aren't comparing like with like

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Calista]

By Calista's logic, CCFC, having played for a year in Northampton can too be considered as a franchise club and should move to the first place that welcomes them.

Nope, because we certainly never became a Northampton club, and the fans fought tooth and nail to get CCFC back where everybocy knew they clearly belonged. Compare and contrast.

Ask yourself the question, where should Wasps play? And if the most precise answer you can come up with is “somewhere in the London or High Wycombe area”, I think that’s stretching the idea of roots to breaking point. And it will give you a clue as to why any objections to moving to the Ricoh were so feeble.

I presume that if Wasps had moved 80 miles to Maidstone, it would have been OK because it would tick the “London” box in people’s conscience.

 

[duffer]

Except that 80% of season ticket holders were from the High Wycombe area: http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s130.htm?129,14938011

It’s not surprising – if a rugby club from Birmingham moved to an industrial estate in Stratford on Avon, how many Brummies would still be regularly attending more than a decade later?

Even if that were true it's still only 2,200 of an average gate of between six and seven thousand. So where do you think the rest came from? And being a West London club would likely mean that they drew a proportion from Wycombe previously in any case. Wycombe is a pretty substantial commuter town for London if you're not familar with the area.

Regardless, you're dancing on the head of a pin here to try to make out that Wasps weren't from London so that you can claim they were a nomadic franchise. This despite the fact that their owner, Richardson when he bought them talked about moving back to West London, that Wasps academy was always based in West London, and that they originated in West London, and so on. I'm sorry, but it's a really poor argument.

I tell you what else I took away from that article, this statement. "They (Wasps) have been tenants at the stadium since 2002, but gates average just over 6,000 and terms of their lease mean Wasps receive just 15p of every pound supporters spend at the stadium on matchdays." That was Wasps justification for moving to Coventry.

Guess how much matchday revenue CCFC get from the Ricoh. Exactly the same, 15p in the pound.

"Chris Anderson added that for every £1 spent on food/drink etc inside the ground on match days, CCFC gets 15p and the other 85p goes to ACL/Wasps and the catering company. This is non-negotiable because of the ACL-Compass company structure. CA has tried to carve out a new deal but there is no deal to be done. "

http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/...ting-minutes-3132807.aspx#QG8DVqgVD6SLCugs.99

So if our owners decide to move us elsewhere, even quite a long way away (maybe an industrial estate near Stratford) for exactly the same reason, surely you wont grumble about the decision, eh?

 

[duffer]

Where might that be? Mr Double Negative.

Good spot, although in context I think it makes sense. Unlike a double positive which can never ever represent a negative.

Yeah, right.

 

[duffer]

Nope, because we certainly never became a Northampton club, and the fans fought tooth and nail to get CCFC back where everybocy knew they clearly belonged. Compare and contrast.

Ask yourself the question, where should Wasps play? And if the most precise answer you can come up with is “somewhere in the London or High Wycombe area”, I think that’s stretching the idea of roots to breaking point. And it will give you a clue as to why any objections to moving to the Ricoh were so feeble.

I presume that if Wasps had moved 80 miles to Maidstone, it would have been OK because it would tick the “London” box in people’s conscience.

Where do you get the idea that objections to moving were feeble? It's a slightly different type of audience, much less likely to fight against the inevitable perhaps, but there were 3,000-odd signatures in the petition hastily done after it was announced. There were many Wasps fans who were (and remain) devastated about moving up to Coventrty and no longer follow the club. Go read the petition and elsewhere for their stories, and tell me again that they were happy to go.

And you understand where West London is in comparison to Wycombe, don't you? I can help if you like - I lived in Slough, which was pretty much as close to living in West London as when I actually lived in West London (Hayes, Uxbridge, Wembley). Wycombe is more or less one more junction more than Slough up the M40.

Wasps roots were and are West London, moving to Wycombe didn't change that, as was acknowledged by the owner right up until the point when the Ricoh became available at a knock down price. Are you saying Mr Richardson was wrong when he said that?

To answer your question Wasps should be playing in West London - there was a deal on the cards with Brentford sharing in their new stadium and possibly other options available. However there wasn't a 32,000 seater stadium available with a council secretly trying to sell it to anyone but their local football team, so that's why 'London Wasps' are in Coventry now.

 

[Nick]

And the alleged other offer they had about a Stadium with hotel etc they turned down.

 

[chiefdave]

Nope, because we certainly never became a Northampton club, and the fans fought tooth and nail to get CCFC back where everybocy knew they clearly belonged. Compare and contrast.

If we'd stayed there the 5 years the FL had granted permission for would it have been OK to not come back then? After all the fans from Coventry would have given up by then.

Ask yourself the question, where should Wasps play?

West London where they played for 135 years.

 

[clint van damme]

I grew up around football and identity with football related matters, that's why I empathised
With Wimbledon fans and couldn't believe what happened to them was allowed to happen.
While I don't wish plagues to befall rugby or it's supporters it holds no interest , it's probably
Why I didn't wallow in grief when Lady Diana was killed, I felt for her kids sure, but she isn't
Part of my life and is therefore not a priority of mine.
I don't think anyone who knows me would describe me as self-centred and without empathy,
But obviously from the lofty heights of your ivory tower you are able to "work me out" from a
Few lines written on the internet. Well done .
You do realise the only reason anyone is on here is because we support city don't you, we're not
on here to save the world. Some of the "holier than though" attitudes on here are embarrassing.

you said call me selfish and then went on to give people the ammunition to do so, I just obliged.

I'm fairly sure you were up in arms about sisu moving us to Sixfields but don't care that wasps moved 90 miles from High Wycombe so I'll go out on a limb and say you're a hypocrite as well.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Nope, because we certainly never became a Northampton club, and the fans fought tooth and nail to get CCFC back where everybocy knew they clearly belonged. Compare and contrast.

Ask yourself the question, where should Wasps play? And if the most precise answer you can come up with is “somewhere in the London or High Wycombe area”, I think that’s stretching the idea of roots to breaking point. And it will give you a clue as to why any objections to moving to the Ricoh were so feeble.

I presume that if Wasps had moved 80 miles to Maidstone, it would have been OK because it would tick the “London” box in people’s conscience.

They should ground share with Brentford at their new place. Or, done the impossible (like other London clubs) and built a new stadium in London.

 

[Captain Dart]

Where do you get the idea that objections to moving were feeble? It's a slightly different type of audience, much less likely to fight against the inevitable perhaps, but there were 3,000-odd signatures in the petition hastily done after it was announced. There were many Wasps fans who were (and remain) devastated about moving up to Coventrty and no longer follow the club. Go read the petition and elsewhere for their stories, and tell me again that they were happy to go.

And you understand where West London is in comparison to Wycombe, don't you? I can help if you like - I lived in Slough, which was pretty much as close to living in West London as when I actually lived in West London (Hayes, Uxbridge, Wembley). Wycombe is more or less one more junction more than Slough up the M40.

Wasps roots were and are West London, moving to Wycombe didn't change that, as was acknowledged by the owner right up until the point when the Ricoh became available at a knock down price. Are you saying Mr Richardson was wrong when he said that?

To answer your question Wasps should be playing in West London - there was a deal on the cards with Brentford sharing in their new stadium and possibly other options available. However there wasn't a 32,000 seater stadium available with a council secretly trying to sell it to anyone but their local football team, so that's why 'London Wasps' are in Coventry now.

You can argue all you like about heritage but consider this, whatever their motivation or the ethics of it Wasps moved to occupy a vacuum. CFRC were languishing in the 3rd tier of professional rugby and their was an audience for better quality rugby in the West Midlands and SISUs actions left the stadium open to be acquired.

None of your arguments change anything anyway and realistically there isn't going to be a load of West London rugby fans with pitchforks forcing Wasps out, neither are they all that likely to default on their bonds in the medium term while Richardson is around because he will probably bail them out if expenditure outruns the bond money.

The problem is how CCFC can make the best of the situation, I don't see enough happening and everything Fisher says onlly seems to damage the clubs prospects further.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Wasps roots were and are West London, moving to Wycombe didn't change that, as was acknowledged by the owner right up until the point when the Ricoh became available at a knock down price.

Their training base is currently still at Ealing until they take over our academy.

Having been there, it's not a large facility actually. Quite old and tired.

 

[duffer]

You can argue all you like about heritage but consider this, whatever their motivation or the ethics of it Wasps moved to occupy a vacuum. CFRC were languishing in the 3rd tier of professional rugby and their was an audience for better quality rugby in the West Midlands and SISUs actions left the stadium open to be acquired.

None of your arguments change anything anyway and realistically there isn't going to be a load of West London rugby fans with pitchforks forcing Wasps out, neither are they all that likely to default on their bonds in the medium term while Richardson is around because he will probably bail them out if expenditure outruns the bond money.

The problem is how CCFC can make the best of the situation, I don't see enough happening and everything Fisher says onlly seems to damage the clubs prospects further.

In that case what you're really saying is that as long as something is commercially feasible then it should be accepted. The problem with that, is that if our owners say that something is commerically necessary, you've got to take it on the chin or (politely) look like a hypocrite.

The commercial driver for Wasps leaving Wycombe was because they only got 15% of matchday revenue. That's exactly the same as CCFC get at the moment from the Ricoh. What's your argument for us remaining there?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

In that case what you're really saying is that as long as something is commercially feasible then it should be accepted. The problem with that, is that if our owners say that something is commerically necessary, you've got to take it on the chin or (politely) look like a hypocrite.

The commercial driver for Wasps leaving Wycombe was because they only got 15% of matchday revenue. That's exactly the same as CCFC get at the moment from the Ricoh. What's your argument for us remaining there?

Probably only 100k rent.

 

[stupot07]

Probably only 100k rent.

That's all well and good, but what about post July 2018 when the current deal runs out?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

That's all well and good, but what about post July 2018 when the current deal runs out?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Why are you asking me? Ask the original OP.