Of Mice and Men (2 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

People now calling for it to be removed from GCSE English. ‘I’m not sure what it’s actually teaching kids’, incredible.

Call to remove Of Mice and Men from GCSE course - BBC News

This Belfast student says racial slurs within the book leave her feeling uncomfortable in the classroom.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

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[ajsccfc]

I think having it optional rather than mandatory is the best way to go and certainly wouldn't ban it. I don't like how this girl has become a lightning rod for abuse by people who appear to have never read a book in their lives but that's Twitter for you I suppose

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think having it optional rather than mandatory is the best way to go and certainly wouldn't ban it. I don't like how this girl has become a lightning rod for abuse by people who appear to have never read a book in their lives but that's Twitter for you I suppose

I disagree with her opinion entirely

 

[skybluetony176]

On one hand I have white privilege so I have no real idea or understanding what it feels like to be a person of colour or a minority that faces discrimination so I don’t feel I have either the experience or authority to tell people who do face discrimination how they should feel about it even when reading it in an 86 year old book. On the other hand I feel we need a yardstick to show how far we come but more importantly to show what we got wrong in the past so we don’t repeat the same mistakes. I guess what I’m trying to say is that there’s more than one way that this book can be used as an educational tool.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

On one hand I have white privilege so I have no real idea or understanding what it feels like to be a person of colour or a minority that faces discrimination so I don’t feel I have either the experience or authority to tell people who do face discrimination how they should feel about it even when reading it an 86 year old book. On the other hand I feel we need a yardstick to show how far we come but more importantly to show what we got wrong in the past so we don’t repeat the same mistakes. I guess what I’m trying to say is that there’s more than one way that this book can be used as an educational tool.

Should To Kill A Mockinbird be banned on the same basis?

 

[skybluetony176]

Should To Kill A Mockinbird be banned on the same basis?

I’m not saying anything should be banned. The opposite if anything

I’ve read to Kill a Mockingbird several times although not for a while but my memory is that the context of the book is that racism is bad. Have to be honest I’ve never read Of Mice and Men or seen the film so can’t comment on its specific contents or context but also I haven’t said it should be banned.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’m not saying anything should be banned. The opposite if anything

I’ve read to Kill a Mockingbird several times although not for a while but my memory is that the context of the book is that racism is bad. Have to be honest I’ve never read Of Mice and Men or seen the film so can’t comment on its specific contents or context but also I haven’t said it should be banned.

I didn’t say you did but if all we do is censor books because of the words rather than the message then it’s a big mistake.

 

[ajsccfc]

I've read it a while ago and there's obviously a bit of harsh language and attitudes and the like but it's all part of the story and none of it either glorifies or celebrates racism, it's more just a part of life in the story which is surely something that can be discussed and explained when studying the book, To Kill A Mockingbird is another. Like you get with older films and TV shows now, warn the reader that sensitive material lies within and away you go

 

[skybluetony176]

I didn’t say you did but if all we do is censor books because of the words rather than the message then it’s a big mistake.

Depends what you mean by censor though. A warning that on the cover that the book contains outdated views I would think in most cases would be enough. Unless the purpose of the book is specifically to promote white supremacy then maybe further discussions would be required but then again I doubt a book like that would be on the curriculum.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Depends what you mean by censor though. A warning that on the cover that the book contains outdated views I would think in most cases would be enough. Unless the purpose of the book is specifically to promote white supremacy then maybe further discussions would be required but then again I doubt a book like that would be on the curriculum.

Nazi propaganda has been discussed in GCSE History for years. It is obviously designed to promote unacceptable views but in such a case you must trust the teacher to deliver the material appropriately.

 

[skybluetony176]

Nazi propaganda has been discussed in GCSE History for years. It is obviously designed to promote unacceptable views but in such a case you must trust the teacher to deliver the material appropriately.

That’s fair enough. The key point there I guess is that it isn’t being used to promote Nazi ideology. You have to allow for the context of how it’s being used in education too, not just the context of the literature.

The reaction from the right on this could be interesting. I recall there being a call from individuals on right not that long ago to drop all literature from non British authors of the curriculum. A different type of censorship.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That’s fair enough. The key point there I guess is that it isn’t being used to promote Nazi ideology. You have to allow for the context of how it’s being used in education too, not just the context of the literature.

The reaction from the right on this could be interesting. I recall there being a call from individuals on right not that long ago to drop all literature from non British authors of the curriculum. A different type of censorship.

That was Michael Gove’s idea 10 years ago

 

[skybluetony176]

That was Michael Gove’s idea 10 years ago

Think it got re floated not that long ago. Fits in well with though with your point about using Nazi literature in the classroom as a teaching aid. Banning foreign literature is straight out of the Nazi playbook.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Of Mice and Men and To Kill a Mockingbird are less like works of fiction and more akin to commentaries of contemporary history and attitudes at the time. You simply can't deny this sort of thing didn't go on - in fact it probably still does in some areas in the Southern US. They are two of the greatest works in the English language.

 

[ajsccfc]

After reading Of Mice and Men I got a few more by him, Tortilla Flat, Cannery Row, Grapes of Wrath and a collection of short stories. Only read the short stories but they're all on the waiting list. I did also get Go Set A Watchman but finding out it was an early draft never intended to see the light of day put me off bothering with it.

 

[David O'Day]

if you teach of mice of mice and men badly it can seem like it is a racist book,

 

[clint van damme]

I don't agree with her. But when did the opinion of 19 year old students suddenly become important enough for the BBC to do a piece of it?

If she'd called for HS2 to be scrapped or for the railways to be nationalised would they have covered it?

I

 

[shmmeee]

Ludicrous but just reported to make everyone say how ludicrous it is. As others have said no more barmy than actual government policies we’ve had.

 

[napolimp]

Am I missing something, no one is calling for the book to be outright banned right? So anyone could go online, to the library, or a book store, and pick up the book to read in their own time if they wanted to?

In which case, seems like a total non issue whether it's in the curriculum or not. Millions of other books are not in the school curriculum, and no one complains about them. I'm sure there are lots of other texts that can be used to teach racism throughout history, where necessary.

 

[Otis]

Am I missing something, no one is calling for the book to be outright banned right? So anyone could go online, to the library, or a book store, and pick up the book to read in their own time if they wanted to?

In which case, seems like a total non issue whether it's in the curriculum or not. Millions of other books are not in the school curriculum, and no one complains about them. I'm sure there are lots of other texts that can be used to teach racism throughout history, where necessary.

It's a great book, mind.

I was blown away by it.

 

[shmmeee]

Mice and Men is one of the few books I was made to read at school I still reference today…

 

[napolimp]

It's a great book, mind.

I was blown away by it.

I thought it was good, when I read it years ago. I would welcome anyone to use their freedom to read, head down to the library, pick up a copy and have at it - if you want to that is. Or don't, either way doesn't really matter does it.

 

[SBAndy]

I feel like the basis of ‘teaching’ the book is not to glorify it but to introduce critical thinking. That’s what I recall from school anyway. If you just looked at books without any controversy at all then what are you learning?

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

I feel like the basis of ‘teaching’ the book is not to glorify it but to introduce critical thinking. That’s what I recall from school anyway. If you just looked at books without any controversy at all then what are you learning?

Some of the time in our school it felt like it was practice at reading aloud!!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

"A Belfast Student" appears to be all.

And clearly not a bright one.

Non news.

 

[dutchman]

It's not on the reading list in England (wonder why?) so why should it be on the reading list in Northern Ireland? (and Wales).

Are they saying the feelings of a racial minority in Ireland (or Wales) don't matter but those in England do?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's not on the reading list in England (wonder why?) so why should it be on the reading list in Northern Ireland? (and Wales).

Are they saying the feelings of a racial minority in Ireland (or Wales) don't matter but those in England do?

Michael Gove took ‘non-British’ texts off the lists in England when he was Education Secretary

 

[shmmeee]

Michael Gove took ‘non-British’ texts off the lists in England when he was Education Secretary

Just endlessly weird that guy. Why do we not want our kids learning from the best humanity has to offer?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If I'm ever education secretary I'd ban Thomas Hardy for being overwrought over sentimentalised shit.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

If I'm ever education secretary I'd ban Thomas Hardy for being overwrought over sentimentalised shit.

Will you please ban Sylvia Plath too. Fuck me that was depressing.

 

[skybluetony176]

Isn’t Sunak supposed to be making Jilly Cooper compulsory reading for children.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Depends what you mean by censor though. A warning that on the cover that the book contains outdated views I would think in most cases would be enough. Unless the purpose of the book is specifically to promote white supremacy then maybe further discussions would be required but then again I doubt a book like that would be on the curriculum.

Historical context is important and students need to be mindful of this and to be perfectly frank, the education system needs to expose students views and ideas that today we find abhorrent.

Banning/censoring books or opinions is never a good idea.

 

[rob9872]

Tv has changed, language has changed, music has changed, culture has changed, law has changed, life has changed. What was acceptable a generation ago isnt today. Why should books be different? Calling them classics doesn't mean they escape scrutiny and if they're in any way offensive they should be banned or amended like anything else. Would kids be allowed to watch OFaH because it's a classic?

 

[shmmeee]

Tv has changed, language has changed, music has changed, culture has changed, law has changed, life has changed. What was acceptable a generation ago isnt today. Why should books be different? Calling them classics doesn't mean they escape scrutiny and if they're in any way offensive they should be banned or amended like anything else. Would kids be allowed to watch OFaH because it's a classic?

We’ve never censored books like visual media though. And if OFaH had educational value then yes. Same as kids watch Kez or Threads.

I was reading graphic violence and sex at a young age as a vociferous reader when I wasn’t allowed to watch movies out of my age range.

 

[shmmeee]

Would ask point out as a teacher I was able to show movies above the age of children if it was justifiable. We’ve never attempted to sanitise education that mucb really.