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Oh Jeremy Corbyn (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter torchomatic
  • Start date Sep 27, 2017
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Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #491
Kingokings204 said:
They do have a clue Mart but they can't please everyone. 18 out of he 25 member of the cabinet are or were remainers. Trouble is the country voted to leave. There is a massive disconnect and these cabinet members don't want to leave the EU. That's the problem. It makes Mays position impossible and have therefore made here look inept and weak. I think she is anyway personally as her stint as home sec wasn't good by any means.

It's quite obvious the EU are stalling. Major unreasonable demands are deliberate because they are trying to please 27 countries. Impossible. And they know full well the longer this goes on for and the deadline gets nearer to march 2019 we will be forced to accept a deal. Good tactics by the EU to be fair but if it backfires then they lose.
Click to expand...

I suspect there are elements on both sides deliberately trying to ensure a deal does not happen.
 
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Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #492
Kingokings204 said:
Well that's his view and he is entitled to it. Many will disagree with it but I respect his faith and his opinion. I highly highly respect he has been honest and didn't lie about it either. Very rare these days.
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At least he is honest but the overwhelming majority would find it completely alien.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #493
clint van damme said:
do we really want a hard line Christian as PM?
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Again it's a tough one but the law states it's pro choice so that's his view but it's not in our law. He has his belief that life begins at conception and that's what the Bible teaches him. If someone is raped then in his view does making that better by killing a human baby? His view is no due to his faith. I'm not Christian but I highly respect his honesty.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #494
Sick Boy said:
I suspect there are elements on both sides deliberately trying to ensure a deal does not happen.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. EU are trying to please 27 countries and get as much money as possible. Fine. The UK are trying to please a remain majority cabinet and a country divided by this vote. It's very tricky.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #495
Sick Boy said:
At least he is honest but the overwhelming majority would find it completely alien.
Click to expand...

My response to CVD.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #496
Kingokings204 said:
Completely agree. EU are trying to please 27 countries and get as much money as possible. Fine. The UK are trying to please a remain majority cabinet and a country divided by this vote. It's very tricky.
Click to expand...

They're not trying to please a remain majority cabinet, it'll be the influence of those pushing for leaving without any sort of deal at all.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #497
Sick Boy said:
They're not trying to please a remain majority cabinet, it'll be the influence of those pushing for leaving without any sort of deal at all.
Click to expand...

Does anyone want no deal. I would think either side doesn't want a no deal but I have to admit I'm going to sound Gael chlichy here but no deal is better than a bad deal. That is true.

I want a free trade deal personally of course.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #498
Kingokings204 said:
Does anyone want no deal. I would think either side doesn't want a no deal but I have to admit I'm going to sound Gael chlichy here but no deal is better than a bad deal. That is true.
Click to expand...

There will be elements within the EU wanting to see Britain worse off to protect itself and to discourage others from leaving. There are also those who want to pay no settlement and to leave asap on the UK's side.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #499
Sick Boy said:
There will be elements within the EU wanting to see Britain worse off to protect itself and to discourage others from leaving. There are also those who want to pay no settlement and to leave asap on the UK's side.
Click to expand...

Spot on. The truth is we will most likely end up in the middle.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #500
Sick Boy said:
Looks like it is only a matter of time now. I expect Rudd will end up PM.

Imagine the outrage on here if a Labour government was in such a state at a crucial time in the country's history.
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She has such a slim majority, it might be a risk the Tory MP's will not be prepared to take.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #501
Kingokings204 said:
Again it's a tough one but the law states it's pro choice so that's his view but it's not in our law. He has his belief that life begins at conception and that's what the Bible teaches him. If someone is raped then in his view does making that better by killing a human baby? His view is no due to his faith. I'm not Christian but I highly respect his honesty.
Click to expand...

I'm convinced being a devout Christian helped Blair justify his actions in Iraq, I think Rees Mogg is more evil than Blair. But then again, the other options don't exactly fill me with joy.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and martcov

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #502
It's funny isn't it, people respecting Rees-Mogg's right to his stone aged views due to his religion. They'd be saying the exact opposite about a muslim's right to their own stone aged view.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, rondog1973, Deleted member 5849 and 2 others
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #503
fernandopartridge said:
It's funny isn't it, people respecting Rees-Mogg's right to his stone aged views due to his religion. They'd be saying the exact opposite about a muslim's right to their own stone aged view.
Click to expand...

What Muslim Stone Age view would that be then?
 

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #504
Fair play to Rees-Mogg for coming out with his opinion, as I have said the world is way too PC these days, and you can't say anything without somebody piping up and complaining about it. It's almost coming to the point where free speech is limited.
Due to the way people are brought up and taught now, it is wrong to say certain things, but i t was interesting speaking to somebody in the Army in the after mass of the Manchester attack, and he said that we should just ban all Muslims from the country. I, of course, said is that not letting terrorists win, by turning on a whole relgion on the acts of a minor few. And he responded saying, that is what soceity wants everyone to think, but the only sure way of stopping the attacks in banning them all. Admittedly, he was annoyed at the fact that the army was out on the streets, because if they were to act as they are trained and kill somebody who they felt threatened by, then they would be in a whole lot of trouble. But still I respected his view, maybe it was a bit dated, in some peoples eyes, just like Rees-mogg's will be in some people's eyes, but why must everyone have the same opinion?
 
Reactions: Kingokings204

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #505
skybluegod said:
Fair play to Rees-Mogg for coming out with his opinion, as I have said the world is way too PC these days, and you can't say anything without somebody piping up and complaining about it. It's almost coming to the point where free speech is limited.
Due to the way people are brought up and taught now, it is wrong to say certain things, but i t was interesting speaking to somebody in the Army in the after mass of the Manchester attack, and he said that we should just ban all Muslims from the country. I, of course, said is that not letting terrorists win, by turning on a whole relgion on the acts of a minor few. And he responded saying, that is what soceity wants everyone to think, but the only sure way of stopping the attacks in banning them all. Admittedly, he was annoyed at the fact that the army was out on the streets, because if they were to act as they are trained and kill somebody who they felt threatened by, then they would be in a whole lot of trouble. But still I respected his view, maybe it was a bit dated, in some peoples eyes, just like Rees-mogg's will be in some people's eyes, but why must everyone have the same opinion?
Click to expand...

how is free speech suppressed? Look at the wide range of views on here or on any social media. Look at the internet, Youtube etc, you'll find views and opinions on there you'd have never heard years ago. We have more TV channels than ever.
Free speech is not suppressed. Off course there are some things you can't say anymore, derogatory racists slurs etc. Some people might say that's PC, I say it's just good manners.
 
Reactions: martcov, Liquid Gold, Sick Boy and 2 others

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #506
clint van damme said:
how is free speech suppressed? Look at the wide range of views on here or on any social media. Look at the internet, Youtube etc, you'll find views and opinions on there you'd have never heard years ago. We have more TV channels than ever.
Free speech is not suppressed. Off course there are some things you can't say anymore, derogatory racists slurs etc. Some people might say that's PC, I say it's just good manners.
Click to expand...

I disagree, I think for the younger generation they are taught to fit into the social norm, and if they say anything against what is socially acceptable then they chastised for it.
This bloke that i spoke to who i had known for years, admitted that he would never have come out with these views until now because he knew the reaction he would get.

Edit: yes clearly things like Racial slurs are just good manners, but the World is too PC in other ways.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #507
skybluegod said:
I disagree, I think for the younger generation they are taught to fit into the social norm, and if they say anything against what is socially acceptable then they chastised for it.
This bloke that i spoke to who i had known for years, admitted that he would never have come out with these views until now because he knew the reaction he would get.

Edit: yes clearly things like Racial slurs are just good manners, but the World is too PC in other ways.
Click to expand...

the POTUS tried to get Muslims banned from entering his country, I'm not sure how you think these views are been suppressed. They may cause controversy and uproar, but that's because most people find them repugnant.
 
Reactions: martcov and Sick Boy

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #508
clint van damme said:
the POTUS tried to get Muslims banned from entering his country, I'm not sure how you think these views are been suppressed. They may cause controversy and uproar, but that's because most people find them repugnant.
Click to expand...

No he tried to ban some Muslims not all, they banned some countries, so they tighten border security for a month.
So you are saying people are not afraid to express their views because of the rebuke that they will get? Come off it.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #509
skybluegod said:
No he tried to ban some Muslims not all, they banned some countries, so they tighten border security for a month.
So you are saying people are not afraid to express their views because of the rebuke that they will get? Come off it.
Click to expand...

so what views do you feel are oppressed?
Just checked, he did call for a total ban on all Muslims entering the USA, he watered it down afterwards to the version of the ban you described.
 
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skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #510
clint van damme said:
so what views do you feel are oppressed?
Click to expand...

I’m not talking about points of views a lot of them are out there.
I’m talking about individuals being able to come out and say what they want, and that list is endless, and that is a limitation of freedom of speech.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #511
skybluegod said:
I’m not talking about points of views a lot of them are out there.
I’m talking about individuals being able to come out and say what they want, and that list is endless, and that is a limitation of freedom of speech.
Click to expand...

can you give me an example because I honestly don't know what you mean?
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #512
clint van damme said:
can you give me an example because I honestly don't know what you mean?
Click to expand...

So, for example, there was big thing at Manchester Uni last year I think, where a woman, was banned from speaking at campus due to her views on Transgender people, which was said could cause hatred.

Edit. The speech had nothing to do with Transgender people from what I remember either
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #513
skybluegod said:
So, for example, there was big thing at Manchester Uni last year I think, where a woman, was banned from speaking at campus due to her views on Transgender people, which was said could cause hatred.

Edit. The speech had nothing to do with Transgender people from what I remember either
Click to expand...

without knowing what her opinion on transgender people was I can't really comment but Katie Hopkins and Brendan O'Neill have been quite vocal regarding trans gender people and the politics surrounding them and both are fairly high profile in the media.
 

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #514
clint van damme said:
without knowing what her opinion on transgender people was I can't really comment but Katie Hopkins and Brendan O'Neill have been quite vocal regarding trans gender people and the politics surrounding them and both are fairly high profile in the media.
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As i said. I am not saying views are limited, i am saying people's individual freedom of speech is limited.
There is no doubt that most views are out their, but i do think some people's freedom of speech and even expression is sometimes limited, due to social norms, and fear of what others might say or do.
 

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #515
Hell, even a few years back, a teacher i knew was sacked for saying his point of view to the head teacher, and other staff despite their disagreements now no longer voice their opinions in fear.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #516
skybluegod said:
Hell, even a few years back, a teacher i knew was sacked for saying his point of view to the head teacher, and other staff despite their disagreements now no longer voice their opinions in fear.
Click to expand...

surely they would have had a case for unfair dismissal? Headmaster was obviously no good at his job if he wouldn't let people express their views.
 
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skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #517
I don't know if you have seen Milo Yiannopoulos? He's a bit odd, and has some extreme views, but he often writes a lot of articles to spark debate on sensitive topics which, is always interesting, as he often makes extreme points, which gets a reaction, which is what we need more of, i often don;t agree with him, but he does what he does very well, as a provocateur, and going against what people see as politically correct!
 
Reactions: Kingokings204
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #518
skybluegod said:
I don't know if you have seen Milo Yiannopoulos? He's a bit odd, and has some extreme views, but he often writes a lot of articles to spark debate on sensitive topics which, is always interesting, as he often makes extreme points, which gets a reaction, which is what we need more of, i often don;t agree with him, but he does what he does very well, as a provocateur, and going against what people see as politically correct!
Click to expand...

Isn't he the gay guy who basically talks and shuts down feminists etc?
 

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #519
Kingokings204 said:
Isn't he the gay guy who basically talks and shuts down feminists etc?
Click to expand...
Haha yeah that's the one, he basically say's because he's gay and has a black boyfriend he can get away with saying anything he wants. He's actually very intelligent, but his views are extreme, but well supported by evidence.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #520
skybluegod said:
I don't know if you have seen Milo Yiannopoulos? He's a bit odd, and has some extreme views, but he often writes a lot of articles to spark debate on sensitive topics which, is always interesting, as he often makes extreme points, which gets a reaction, which is what we need more of, i often don;t agree with him, but he does what he does very well, as a provocateur, and going against what people see as politically correct!
Click to expand...

i don't like him and he flirts with Nazism a bit too much for my liking and I'm not comfortable with some of the things he's said about paedophilia but I do follow the views of people who's views are pretty much opposed to mine such as Brendan O'Neill and Johan Norberg, always know what the enemies thinking!
 

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #521
clint van damme said:
i don't like him and he flirts with Nazism a bit too much for my liking and I'm not comfortable with some of the things he's said about paedophilia but I do follow the views of people who's views are pretty much opposed to mine such as Brendan O'Neill and Johan Norberg, always know what the enemies thinking!
Click to expand...

Yeah I’m not surprised you don’t like him! I believe he was molested as a kid, and he does have some extreme views on it, but I like that. And at least you look at the other side of the coin unlike many others.
 
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K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #522
skybluegod said:
Haha yeah that's the one, he basically say's because he's gay and has a black boyfriend he can get away with saying anything he wants. He's actually very intelligent, but his views are extreme, but well supported by evidence.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know now. Seen him on YouTube a fair few times and he basically for anyone who hasn't seen just throws a load of studies and facts so people can't argue him. Mainly at people such as feminists from what I've seen.

He is a bit extreme and does it in a particularly cocky manner but hey ho as long as he doesn't cross the line then I have no problem with people who like him or dislike him.
 
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Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #523
Sick Boy said:
Looks like it is only a matter of time now. I expect Rudd will end up PM.

Imagine the outrage on here if a Labour government was in such a state at a crucial time in the country's history.
Click to expand...

If it's Rudd we're even more fucked than we are now...
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849 and Sick Boy

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #524
Kingokings204 said:
Yeah I know now. Seen him on YouTube a fair few times and he basically for anyone who hasn't seen just throws a load of studies and facts so people can't argue him. Mainly at people such as feminists from what I've seen.

He is a bit extreme and does it in a particularly cocky manner but hey ho as long as he doesn't cross the line then I have no problem with people who like him or dislike him.
Click to expand...

Yeah he is most famous for his feminist videos, mainly because as you say he is so cocky and abrupt with it.
But he also speaks about a lot of other things, and while he is extreme and I don’t always like him. I think he is good at what he does, and he gets people interested in important issues, and was one of the people that sparked my interest in politics, as it made me research the topics he spoke about.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #525
Ian1779 said:
If it's Rudd we're even more fucked than we are now...
Click to expand...

At least it's not Corbyn - be grateful.
 
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